Author Topic: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage  (Read 7971 times)

Offline Kasz

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Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« on: December 31, 2012, 05:54:26 AM »
I've done a fair bit of work on this, I've read the warlock & binder compilations and I've read the anima mage handbook; after a few discussions with my DM we've come to an agreement for at least level 4 (the starting level). This campaign has the potential to last until epic levels unless we suffer a TPK basically.

(click to show/hide)

Build
The starting 4 levels. (My DM has allowed Warlock to be a Lesser Tiefling's Favoured class and thus no multiclass issues)

Binder 1 / Warlock 1 / Anima Mage 2

Traits are allowed, flaws are not. Improved Binding is a must to qualify early for Anima Mage.

My DM has okayed this early entry, the requirements are met for Anima Mage by the invocation Baleful Utterance counting as a level 2 arcane spell as it emulates Shatter. We're ignoring the metamagic feat tax as I don't cast spells that can be modified by them... although there are similar for SLA and Su.

4 - 12 strikes me as being quite simple...
Binder 1/Warlock1/Anima Mage 10

After 12 I think either
Binder 1/Warlock1/Anima Mage 10/Legacy Champion 8
Binder 1/Warlock1/Anima Mage 10/Ultimate Magus 8

Assuming my DM allows UM to work with AM
LC would end up with Binding of a level 17 binder & Invocations of a level 17 warlock + Legacy feats.
UM would end up with Binding of a level 17 binder & Invocations of a level 18 warlock + Ultimate Magus goodies.

Other Thoughts
I need to also work out... how I'd default attack things... I like the idea of combining Eldritch Claws with Sneak Attack vestiges... obviously any items that add either SA or Eldritch Blast damage would be appreciated. Obviously a lot of vestiges grant decent spells as SU's and Invocations grant spells as SLA's.

Any obvious synergy between vestiges and invocations would be nice... also I know I wouldn't take "walk the unseen" because whilst 24 hour invisibility is nice one of the vestiges grants spammable invisibility that becomes a swift action so I wouldn't need to take both.

Disclaimer

I know this isn't the most powerful use of Anima Mage. I could just Binder / Wizard for better results.
I know binder is T2 (I have access to all Vestiges, online and whatnot) and Warlock is T4... but the group is solid T2/T3 so I don't think this build will steal the limelight but it's quite the jack of all trades... or it at least has his toolbox so I won't get bored.

I know elements of this build doesn't work by RAW, but my DM is very much for flavour and fluff as long as you're not ignoring rules for power... just for flavour. That being said... if theres any way to make a character with the same theme but acceptable by RAW... then I'm all ears.

TL:DR
Any tips/tricks/suggested items/feats for Binder/Warlock?

Offline Gribel

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Re: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 06:06:55 AM »
Naberius (vestige) + Hellfire Warlock has synergy. It won't advance your binding, but it advances your eldritch blast a lot, especially with Legacy Champion afterwards. Might I suggest using bloodlines, since you're theurging? The bloodline levels would increase both sides' caster/binding level.
Oh, and stinking cloud has to be one of my favorate battlefield spells. Combined with sleet stor, you can shut a group down and keep them shut down, trapped inside a fart. When does that ever get old?

Offline Kasz

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Re: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 06:21:56 AM »
The problem with Hellfire warlock is it either comes too late... or it stops binding progression. It's a decent suggestion and I know doing 36d6 Eldritch damage is awesome... it's just not what I'm going for.

Good call on bloodlines though... I will definitely look into those, had forgotten about them.

Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2013, 08:07:00 PM »
I'm curious on a few points; first, what did you do with the abilities? Vestigal awareness still works fine. Vestigal Casting is sexy (insta-vocation? I like). Did you replace Vestigal Metamagic and Exploit vestige, or are you just ignoring them?

I know you don't use modifiable invocations, but are you ale to apply metamagic to your blast? I'm afb, but I believe so. Could be fun to plug feats into, for the future. Maybe get it to your dm by saying you ignore them while you've ignored the feat tax, which is already in place and takes out some of your early abilities, but you regain them when you take metamagic feats? not a necessary path, but could be fun, especially when combined with vestigal SLAs.
I'm here and ready to keep confusing the hell out of everyone I meet.

Offline Empirate

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Re: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 12:03:13 PM »
On using Legacy Champion: I think you need to differentiate between class features, and progression of class features here - and the result is that Legacy Champion does nothing for you.
IMO you can't use Legacy Champion to progress a class feature that progresses another class' features, or to be more to the point: Legacy Champion can only be used to progress Warlock or Binder, not the added Warlock AND Binder progression offered by Anima Mage. The binding ability comes from the Binder class, the invocation ability from the Warlock class. Neither originally stems from the Anima Mage class. Anima Mage just progresses those class features, it doesn't offer them on its own. So if you use Legacy Champion to progress all the Anima Mage's class features, it has nothing to progress, since you get no further class features after Anima Mage 10, no class features directly depend on your Anima Mage class level, and neither binding nor invocations are provided by the Anima Mage class.

Offline Kasz

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Re: Building a Binder/Warlock - Anima Mage
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 08:57:00 AM »
I'm curious on a few points; first, what did you do with the abilities? Vestigal awareness still works fine. Vestigal Casting is sexy (insta-vocation? I like). Did you replace Vestigal Metamagic and Exploit vestige, or are you just ignoring them?

I know you don't use modifiable invocations, but are you ale to apply metamagic to your blast? I'm afb, but I believe so. Could be fun to plug feats into, for the future. Maybe get it to your dm by saying you ignore them while you've ignored the feat tax, which is already in place and takes out some of your early abilities, but you regain them when you take metamagic feats? not a necessary path, but could be fun, especially when combined with vestigal SLAs.

On the abilities, I haven't really discussed how the Anima Mage stuff effects me. The exploit vestige ability is just given up basically. In exchange for qualifying and not being a typical arcane caster. Vestige metamagic is going to be traded for basically extra uses of SLA / Su metamagic, like Quicken SLA 3/day would gain extra uses beyond 3, 1 at 5th, 2 at 7th and 3 at 9th... but these extra uses would shut down pact abilities... but that's not something that's going to effect the character until level 9.

Vestige Casting becomes pretty awesome, Invocation cast through the Vestige silently and still as an immediate action. I'll get a solid attack invocation for that... although a stilled and silent immediate eldritch blast isn't terrible as a backup.

I don't mind giving up power for concept though, as the concept is very fun to play. I'm also worshipping an elder evil and using Vile feats, which is fun with Binder to heal back ability damage.

The concept on this guy being words are mightier than swords is ringing true when he can speak the Dark Speech... making contracts, pacts and deals... I might put skillpoints in Profession: Lawyer and Craft: Contract. ;)

On using Legacy Champion: I think you need to differentiate between class features, and progression of class features here - and the result is that Legacy Champion does nothing for you.
IMO you can't use Legacy Champion to progress a class feature that progresses another class' features, or to be more to the point: Legacy Champion can only be used to progress Warlock or Binder, not the added Warlock AND Binder progression offered by Anima Mage. The binding ability comes from the Binder class, the invocation ability from the Warlock class. Neither originally stems from the Anima Mage class. Anima Mage just progresses those class features, it doesn't offer them on its own. So if you use Legacy Champion to progress all the Anima Mage's class features, it has nothing to progress, since you get no further class features after Anima Mage 10, no class features directly depend on your Anima Mage class level, and neither binding nor invocations are provided by the Anima Mage class.

I assumed taking levels in legacy champion was just like taking bonus levels in Anima Mage, thus is would progress both... If not I might need to see if my DM will accept Ultimate Magus, counting binder as prepared and warlock as spontaneous.

I'll run it by my DM. He's handwaving a lot of stuff for concept, I know "Why don't you go play magical tea party" but its more slight stuff that if we can argue "should" work or why it "might" work then we get the benefit of the doubt... but so do the bad (or in this case good) guys, and he's not exactly intending on going easy on us :P