Violent Apostle of Peace

[OblivionSmurf83]

So, everyone knows about the Apostle of Peace class, from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It's generally a good, more restrictive version of the Ur-Priest. The Apostle of Peace requires the Sacred Vow, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, and Vow of Poverty. I've always thought the class was a bit stupid, because of the restrictive nature of the vows you take.

However, consider what happens when you break your vows:

'If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat'

The benefit in this particular case is in the description text for the feat. You don't lose the feat, and can't take another to replace it. Since the Apostle of Peace merely requires you to possess the feats, and has no code of conduct requirements, feel free to take the feats to qualify, then disregard them.

Of course, the class is still a horrible investment, due to the sheer number of feats, but this should give potential Apostles of Peace a bit more flexibility.

[Tshern]

The feat investment is not that harsh if you are taking Vow of Poverty anyway. Most of the bonus feat options suck anyway, so Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace are viable there.

[Necrosnoop110]

That's pure cheese. Will check my books when I get home.

[snakeman830]

I bleieve "meeting prerequisites" is considered a "benefit" of a feat, though.

[Sobolev]

I bleieve "meeting prerequisites" is considered a "benefit" of a feat, though.

Negative, you meet prerequisities by HAVING the feat, not by getting something from it.

[Shining Phoenix]

Negative, you meet prerequisities by HAVING the feat, not by getting something from it.

Devil's advocate: Being an Apostle of Peace is a benefit you gain as a result of the feat.

[Tshern]

Negative, you meet prerequisities by HAVING the feat, not by getting something from it.

Devil's advocate: Being an Apostle of Peace is a benefit you gain as a result of the feat.

Is it truly a benefit?

[Bozwevial]

Negative, you meet prerequisities by HAVING the feat, not by getting something from it.

Devil's advocate: Being an Apostle of Peace is a benefit you gain as a result of the feat.

All apostles of peace have the feat. Not all people who have the feat are apostles of peace.

[Halinn]

Qualifying for Apostle of Peace could be argued to be a benefit of the feat.

[X-Codes]

Highly amusing thought experiment, in any case. XD

Don't violate your VoP, though.  VoP is giving you VoNV/VoPeace for free, so if you violate THAT then you really will lose VoNV/VoPeace.

[caelic]

Great.  So we get:

"Graahhhhrrr!  I want to cut you wide open and feast on your entrails!  Uhm, can I borrow your knife for a minute?"

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I believe you can tweak your build a bit and get your vow feats provided as a class feature, and then use grayguard to ignore the code of conduct.

[Look]

I believe you can tweak your build a bit and get your vow feats provided as a class feature, and then use grayguard to ignore the code of conduct.

Unless I gravely misremember, Grey Guards loosened code applies only to the Code of Conduct Paladins adhere to, and won't impact feats.

[X-Codes]

I believe you can tweak your build a bit and get your vow feats provided as a class feature, and then use grayguard to ignore the code of conduct.

Unless I gravely misremember, Grey Guards loosened code applies only to the Code of Conduct Paladins adhere to, and won't impact feats.

No, they apply to all of them... The writer of the Grey Guard pretended it wasn't a Paladin fixonly PrC and, therefore, wrote it loosely enough to potentially let in the loosening of Vow-related requirements.

[Look]

I believe you can tweak your build a bit and get your vow feats provided as a class feature, and then use grayguard to ignore the code of conduct.

Unless I gravely misremember, Grey Guards loosened code applies only to the Code of Conduct Paladins adhere to, and won't impact feats.

No, they apply to all of them... The writer of the Grey Guard pretended it wasn't a Paladin fixonly PrC and, therefore, wrote it loosely enough to potentially let in the loosening of Vow-related requirements.

Hmmm, I have a character I must immediately go forth and edit. Thanks.

So by that ruling, which Vows can be circumvented?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Might be helpful for this concept: Someone on ENWorld noticed that Apostle of Peace actually modifies VoP to allow the wear of magic items...if they bolster your defense.  Since it's right there in the class's rules and due to requiring VoP, every Apostle of Peace, ever, must have it, the only possible way to interpret it is that the class modifies your VoP.  Thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/313374-vow-poverty-loophole.html

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Very interesting.


So ... dip Paladin 1 (or similar) / Greyguard 1 as part of an AOP build ?!