Author Topic: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions  (Read 3669 times)

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« on: March 19, 2013, 06:09:28 PM »
1. What happens if you are wildshaped and you rage to go into bear form?  Would you become some hybrid bear-whatever?  Would they not stack.  Keep in mind, for the "same source" argument: Wildshape is based on alternate form now, not polymorph (which bear form is).  Considering all the annoyance the wildshape errata is causing me, it'd be nice to get something out of it for once...

2. What if you are bear-raging and try to wildshape?

3. Would Girallon's Blessing allow you to retain a pair of hands to wield a weapon while in bear form?

4. What if you reach Warshaper 5 and qualify for BOTH Multimorph and Flashmorph?  For example, a Changeling Transmuter who can change form at will but also casts polymorph.  Do you get both?  Pick one?  One takes priority?

Trying to make a gestalt character with the size and str to use combat maneuvers well, and am running into these sorts of questions.  Thanks for your help.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 07:56:56 PM »
There don't appear to be any rules regarding going into bear form while already wild shaped, so it's probably best if you just went with a reasonable interpretation.  Reasonable, for me at least, would be that the latest effect is the one that takes over and replaces the other.  So the bear form would take over from a wild shape.  You do have the option to do a regular rage and not go into bear form though, and the rage would work while wild shaped.

Raging technically doesn't prevent the character from using SLAs or supernatural abilities, so you could probably use wild shape while raging/in bear form, but it's probably best if you lose the bear form.  I'd probably rule that you could keep your original rage bonuses though

See what your DM has to say though.

Girallon's Blessing does work on creatures that don't have "arms," so it seems reasonable that it could indeed work while wild shaped.  While in bear form is a different matter since you can't cast spells while in a rage or bear form, so you'd have to cast the spell first.  Letting the spell continue to work if you decided to wild shape or go into bear form is a difficult one to answer.  Enough so that it's probably better up to the DM to make the call.

Based on how the 5th level features work, one idea is that you'd only gain the appropriate one for each of your uses.  For example, you could use your Changeling ability as a move action, but you couldn't do the multimorph ability with Minor Change Shape since it doesn't qualify.  Your Polymorph spells would qualify for multimorph though, so you could change your shape during a Polymorph as often as you wanted so long as it wasn't your original form, but you couldn't use it as a move action.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 09:16:38 PM »
Bleh, wildshape not combined w/ bear form makes bear form seem pointless compared to the base str wildshape forms can grant + normal rage...

That was what I was wondering about Girallon's.  Casting it beforehand, and then turning into something else.  If the arms would stay or not.

And yeah, that's what I meant by "both."  The at will ability would get flashmorph, and the limited use one would get multimorph.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 09:58:46 PM »
Wild shape is stat replacement, bear form is stat addition.  If you wild shape while bear-formed, the WS stats replace your boosted stats.  If you bear-form while wildshaped, you add the bear form benefit on top of your wild shape stats.
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Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 10:23:23 PM »
Wait, that makes no sense.  Rage, like bear form, is also stat addition.

Are you claiming if a person rages and then wildshapes, they lose the stat bonuses from rage?  But keep all the horrible penalties?  I really hope that's not what you're claiming, because that's stupid....

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 10:27:06 PM »
Wait, that makes no sense.  Rage, like bear form, is also stat addition.

Are you claiming if a person rages and then wildshapes, they lose the stat bonuses from rage?  But keep all the horrible penalties?  I really hope that's not what you're claiming, because that's stupid....
Hm.

OK then.  They should stack no matter the order.
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Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 06:33:44 AM »
I personally always thought of Rage as an "overlay" effect that stacked on top of everything else and was not considered baseline for reasons like this; that would be terrible to Rage, bear Wild Shape, and only have the penalties. Alternate Form states you wouldn't lose the ability to Rage (or the Rage itself) at least while in Wild Shape (because its based off of it), so you could Rage after turning into a bear.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 09:02:05 AM by Argent Fatalis »

Offline Esgath

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 08:08:01 AM »
A bonus doesn't end when you change your form, just like items with enhancement bonuses. A gauntlet of ogre strength would provide the same bonus to your stats when your new form is able to wear the item.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Warshaper, Bear Warrior, and Druid questions
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 01:10:08 PM »
I vote hybrid bear form.

Rule of cool.

Or you could just have another 'layer' of bear. See my Maximum Bear build.