Compilation of Low Level Builds Discussion

[ImperatorK]

I didn't find a discussion thread, so I'm starting this one.

Something I want to discuss (or rather ask): How would the 10th level builds fare in a one-on-one battle against a war troll? They can use only mundane, non-masterwork weapons and armor and armor is limited to Core only.

[InnaBinder]

I didn't find a discussion thread, so I'm starting this one.

Something I want to discuss (or rather ask): How would the 10th level builds fare in a one-on-one battle against a war troll? They can use only mundane, non-masterwork weapons and armor and armor is limited to Core only.

By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.

[123456789blaaa]

While I do love the imagery, is there any reason the "Death From Above" build isn't using a sparrow Hengeyokai? You wouldn't have to waste a feat on wild cohort and you wouldn't have to make ride checks. According to the table, as a sparrow, you have: STR 1, DEX 23, CON 10; AC 24 (+8 size, +6 dex), 1 foot land speed; base fly speed of 50 feet (no maneuverability is given, but given what I've seen sparrows be able to do IRL, I'd say "perfect").

Does the extra 30 ft. fly speed from the hawk outweigh the Hengeyokai's advantages?
 

[ImperatorK]

By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.

Both.
I know it weakens the build, but that's how the rules are.

[Maat Mons]

“Death from Above” started out as a druid build, but I was having trouble getting a good ranged attack on it.  If you're looking into alterations, here are some thoughts. 

Unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations require somatic gestures.  This is directly stated on page 71.  A few other sections make oblique reference to it.  Eldritch blast is an invocation.  You need to refer to the errata for this, since the book says the opposite.  The surrogate spellcasting feat (Savage Species) would allow the sparrow form to supply the somatic components of spells.  I imagine most DMs would allow it to work for invocations too. 

At higher levels, when you're guaranteed to make the concentration check, you can have your mount move both before and after you cast. 

One you get magic items, it becomes inconvenient to rely on changing form. 

Anthropomorphic bat or raven (Savage Species) would be another option for gaining flight at 1st level.  Their fly speeds are 20 feet, and they don't have as high an attack bonus as the muckdweller or sparrow hengeyokai. 

[123456789blaaa]

“Death from Above” started out as a druid build, but I was having trouble getting a good ranged attack on it.  If you're looking into alterations, here are some thoughts. 

Unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations require somatic gestures.  This is directly stated on page 71.  A few other sections make oblique reference to it.  Eldritch blast is an invocation.  You need to refer to the errata for this, since the book says the opposite.  The surrogate spellcasting feat (Savage Species) would allow the sparrow form to supply the somatic components of spells.  I imagine most DMs would allow it to work for invocations too. 

At higher levels, when you're guaranteed to make the concentration check, you can have your mount move both before and after you cast. 

One you get magic items, it becomes inconvenient to rely on changing form. 

Anthropomorphic bat or raven (Savage Species) would be another option for gaining flight at 1st level.  Their fly speeds are 20 feet, and they don't have as high an attack bonus as the muckdweller or sparrow hengeyokai.

Ah okay, makes sense.

[DavidWL]

2 more level 1 builds:

Alter Self Specialist
Wizard 1
Specialist (Transmutation) / Focused Specialist, Trait)
spellgifted (Transmutation),
H) Otherworldly,
F) Assume Supernatural Ability (Nightmare - Astral Projection / Etherealness),
F) Precocious Apprentice (Alter Self),
1) Reserves of strength

Spells:  Alter Self, Summon Monster 1, Unseen Servant, power word: pain.  Gear: Vanguard of Kord. CL 6 Alter Self, outsider type, breaks 5HD cap.  Nightmare abilities.

can turn into Nightmare and use Astral Projection / Etherealness at at 1st level.

Another kobold cleric caster

"Venerable Dragonwrought Beguiler 1 (or Witch)
(""child of eberron"" for Spontaneous Druid Spells or
""master of the hoard"" for spontaneous Cleric spells)"

Heighten Spell, Versatile Spell, Dragonwrought, (Later on: Initiate of Mystra, Reserves of Strength, alternate form, Supernatural Transformation)

Spontaneously cast any Cleric, Beguiler (Witch), or a few selected domain spells, of up to 2nd level, at 1st level!  (And you're venerable)

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

On the Alter Self specialist: Reserves of Strength requires Iron Will.


A flaw using upgrade to Mr Dog's "Wizard OR Sorcerer Optimization"

Level:1

Class: Wizard

Race: Illumian

Racial Feature: Krau Sigil

Flaws: Noncombatant, Murky Eyed

Feats: Precocious Apprentice, Improved Sigil Krau, Reserve Feat (Fiery Burst, Winter's Blast, Acidic Splatter)

Designate your PA spell with your Improved Sigil and you have an effectively 3rd level spell to power your reserve feat. This build also gets around the sometime arguement against PA granting "the ability to cast 2nd level spells." It states that PA only gives you a single 2nd level spell and the requirement is plural. ISK can give you a second if that's a consideration.

Incidently, if you wish to bar evocation, it may be a bit tricky to find a correctly typed 2nd level spell. Icy Knife and Body of the Sun from the Spell Compendium are Conjuration and Transmutation respectively. If you are limited to core spells for some reason the fire and cold feats are out (unless you can get your DM to give Pyrotechnics the Fire descriptor) and you'll have to make do with Melf's Acid Arrow and the Acidic Splatter Feat.

Books Required
Races of Destiny: Illumian Race, Improved Sigil Krau feat
Complete Mage: Reserve feats
Complete Arcane: Precocious Apprentice
Spell Compendium: Icy Knife spell, Body of the Sun spell
Player's Handbook: Wizard or Sorcerer class, Melf's Acid Arrow spell
Unearthed Arcana: Flaws


Drow High Dex High Damage Build
Level:2
Class: Swordsage1, Fighter1
Race: Lesser Drow from Savage Progressions
ACF: Drow Fighter
Stance: Child of Shadow
Feats: Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse
Abilities: Dex 20 (16 pts)

Shadow Blade grants dex to damage. Drow Fighter both allows you to qualify for and pick up Weapon Finesse at level 2 and grants dex to damage a second time against flatfooted enemies. It gives +2 initiative into the bargain so you'll usually catch someone flatfooted at the beginning of combat. The Sapphire Nightmare Blade manuver from Diamond Mind will make an enemy flatfooted again, and the Wolf Fang Strike manuver from Tiger Claw grants two weapon fighting to double up on your high damage mod.

Sources Required
Player's Handbook
Tome of Battle: Swordsage, Martial Disciplines, Shadow Blade feat
Drow of the Underdark: Drow Fighter ACF
Savage Progressions Web Article: LA +0 Drow

[phaedrusxy]

By "they," do you mean the war troll or the builds?  Generally speaking, a 10th level build is presumed to have magic items appropriate to its level, so removing that is intentionally weakening the build somewhat. . . in some cases, somewhat drastically.

Both.
I know it weakens the build, but that's how the rules are.

It depends on the build. The Master of Shrouds builds I posted should mop the floor with a war troll, even with 0 magic items. They were specifically made for an arena setting where no one had magic items. The general tactic was Meld into Stone, summon a bunch of incorporeals (and other stuff), and wait for them to do your dirty work while you hide safely inside the ground.

[TiaC]

I was reading CC and I noticed just how insane Water Devotion is at level 1. A Cleric can easily summon 6+ Elementals with it.

[Frogman55]

Here's a new level 4 build (I had posted it in the discussion on the old boards, but it never got added.  )

Scary Scales, the Dragonborn Hexblade.

Race: Dragonborn with the breath weapon, base race: Any without a Cha penalty. Cha bonuses are nice too.

1: Hexblade, Intimidating Strike*
2: Hexblade
3: Hexblade, Entangling Exhalation
4: Hexblade, Dark Companion

Notes: Max out Intimidate. The Dark Companion sidles up and lowers your enemy's saves. Then use your breath weapon to entagle the enemy (or keep him that way). Then, using a reach weapon and intimidating strike, make the BBEG shaken, and finally curse them when their saves are the lowest. In two or three rounds you can leave your foe with -6 to attacks, -6 to saves, -4 to checks, -2 to damage and AC, -4 dex, and half speed. And you can do that without expending any resources, other than the 1/day curse, but frankly that's the least of your debuffs.

Also, unlike a lot of other debuffers built around fear, this guy remains flexible in a fight against undead or others immune to fear/mind-effects. Entanglement works against just about anything (remember that Dragonborn can cherry-pick the energy effect with each blast, and there is no save against the entangling so long as the target takes some damage from the breath attack. Dark Companion also works against 'any enemy.'

If you can talk your GM into allowing the 'Official' Hexblade 'Fix,' then so much the better. This guy works all right even without it.

*I like intimidating Strike because of its long duration - Making a foe shaken for the encounter is nice. However, Daunting presence is an acceptable alternative if you don't mind the shorter duration and want to stay out of melee.

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Complete warrior for Hexblade.
Races of the Dragon for Dragonborn and Entangling Exhalation
PHII for Dark Companion alternate class feature and Intimidating Strike.

[Waazraath]

Is the original thread still being updated? If so, I'd like to submit some low level builds.

[Frogman55]

Is the original thread still being updated? If so, I'd like to submit some low level builds.

Well, phaedrusxy is still around, so it's not an entirely lost cause.

[Maat Mons]

I know the Compilation hasn't been updated in three years, but I'm posting a build here anyway.  It's for the 2nd-level, no flaws category

Trip Monk-ey (by Maat Mons)

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Human
Monk 2

Variants:
The decisive strike alternative class feature for monk. 
The martial monk variant, with the interpretation that you need to meet the prerequisites for the fighter feats you select. 

Abilities (elite array)
STR 15
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 8

Feats:
H. Combat Expertise
1. Combat Reflexes
M1. Improved Trip
M2. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (emmide)

Skills:
Balance 9 (5 ranks)
Climb 7 (5 ranks)
Jump 9 (5 ranks)
Swim 7 (5 ranks)
Tumble 9 (5 ranks)

Equipment:
Emmide (1 gp)
Iron Ward Diamond (500 gp)
Masterwork studded leather (175 gp)

This is, of course, a tripping build.  The goal is to combine decisive strike and exotic weapon proficiency at the earliest possible level. 

This build is rough on ability scores.  You need strength for trip checks, attack bonus, and damage.  Dexterity is necessary for more attacks of opportunity.  Everyone wants constitution, of course.  You need at least 13 intelligence as a prerequisite.  Fortunately, all of the monk abilities you have (except AC bonus) work in light armor, so you can skip wisdom. 

The emmide is kind of like a spiked chain, in that it has reach but can be used against adjacent foes, and it can be used to trip.  It's also a special monk weapon.  The iron ward diamond gives you DR 1/-, except it can only prevent 10 hit points of damage per day.  I threw that in because the build doesn't have much for AC or hit points. 

For future levels I recommend one of the martial adept classes (from Tome of Battle).  Those will allow you to pick up thicket of blades at 6th level.  Crusader would only require one feat for this, while swordsage or warblade would require two.  On the other hand, those diamond mind counters that replace saving throws with concentration checks are nice.  (Switch the skills around if you plan to go that rout.  The skills were never important.) 

If you can wait until third level for things to come online, you don't need to use martial monk (and thus Dragon Magazine).  Switch to passive way monk (from Unearthed Arcana), move that 13 from intelligence to something else, and shuffle the feats around a bit.  Remember, exotic weapon proficiency requires base attack bonus +1, so you can't take it a 1st level. 

If your campaign allows you to be from the appropriate region of Faerun, you should exchange combat expertise for hyena tribe hunter.  It's a feat from Shining South which removes the prerequisites from improved trip.  That lets you switch that 13 from intelligence to something else. 

Strictly speaking, this build could work without the emmide, but then you'd need to alternate between an unarmed strike (for decisive strike) and a spiked chain (for attacks of opportunity).  That just seems kludgy to me. 

What Do You Need for This Build?

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Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II: Decisive strike, ACF, p.51
Dragon Magazine #310: Martial monk, class variant, p.45
Holy Order of Stars: Emmide, weapon, p.31
Magic Item Compendium: Iron ward diamond, magic item, p.26

While creating this, I became painfully aware of the prerequisite on exotic weapon proficiency, base attack bonus +1.  As such, I've noticed that the Arashikage build (1st level, with flaws) is illegal.  Also, the Brutal Tripper build (3rd level, with flaws) needs the order of its feats changed around. 

[phaedrusxy]

Added!


Also, here is a link to the thread for convenience

[Solo]

Fistbeard Beardfist

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Ranger 2 / Monk 2 / Ranger 1 / Deepwarden 2 / Fist of the Forest 3
ACFs:
Passive Way Monk: Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as bonus feats
Strongarm Ranger: Power Attack as Combat Style Bonus Feat
Trap Expert: Trade Track for Trapfinding and Disable Device as a class skill.
Feats:
Great Fortitude
Power Attack
Poison Healer: Heal Constitution modifier hit points every time you successfully resist a poison.
Steadfast Determination: Use Constitution modifier in the place of Wisdom modifier for will saves. Also, a natural 1 on a fortitude save is not an automatic failure.
Knock Down

Abilities:
Stonewarden: A Deepwarden may use his Constitution modifier in place of his Dexterity if his Constitution is higher. This bonus is lost in all situations that a Dexterity bonus would be lost under.
Fist of the Forest AC bonus: While unarmored, you gain a bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Constitution bonus (if any). See the monk class feature (PH 40).
Feral Trance: For the duration of the trance, you gain a +4 bonus to Dexterity and a +2 bonus on damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. You can also make one bite attack per round at your highest attack bonus whenever you attack as a full-round action.
The damage for this attack is 1d6 + your Str modifier, regardless of your size. A feral trance lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Con modifier. While in a trance, you cannot perform certain actions, and afterward you are fatigued. These restrictions are the same as those for the barbarian's rage class feature (PH 25-26).
Signature Weapon: A Kensai gains the ability to enchant his signature weapon and imbue it with power.
Power Surge: A Kensai may make a DC 15 concentration check as a move action in order to gain +8 to Strength for a number of rounds equal to one half his Kensai level. The DC increases by 5 each time he uses the ability within a 24 hour period.
Current weapon enchantments:
Beard: +2, Eager, and Warning via amulet of Natural Attacks
Preferred alcohol: Homebrewed dwarven whiskey.

[Maat Mons]

Added!

Thanks! 

Say, if I could impose on you a little more…  I noticed some minor grammatical errors in my post.  Also, I somehow put an entire sentence in the wrong paragraph.  I've corrected my post now.  Could you update the build in the Compilation?  Just delete the old one and paste the corrected one in? 

[zook1shoe]

So happy this handbook is around