Welcome to my CO board first topic - 3.5 Druid 17 Spell Selection

[foxfax]

As my first topic, I'd like to ask the boards opinion on my Human Druid. Kalinna Davinasdöttir has been trotting around in our Eeeevil campaign since level 12 and has just gotten hold of the almighty 9th level spells and a Belt of Magnificence +6 to get her to 30 Wisdom. I tend to have her control the battlefield (in the form of a Dragon, Ironmaw or Warbound Impaler) and set up the big blasts to get our twin-rapiered Swashbuckler/Rogue/Fighter and lance/greatsword-wielding Dragonriding Fighter in to do the heavy hitting since either can out-DPS me even with my Fleshripper helping. Our Cleric of Nerull assists with the magic but like to melee too and our (horribly-over)Focused Specialist hides at the back chucking spells and our Ranger twangs away with a Legacy Bow from behind his wall (Cave Ankylosaurus). My problem is this: my spell selection seems to be a bit crap. Mine, the player, not the Druids. We have access to all the official 3.5 source books, but Dragon Magazine stuff not in the compendium isn't allowed. Optimisation but not smurfmanship, please, ladies and gentlemen.

She wears the full Raiment of the Beast for SNA and Wild Shape as a level higher and Swift Wild Shape, a Robe of the Vagabond with +6 resistance, a Third Eye Conceal, slotless Belt of Battle, a Gem of Fortification, Rods of Maximize, Empower and Extend, the +1 Caster Level, Regeneration and No Air Ioun Stones and all the Chronocharms for funsies. For recharging spells, she has a Circlet of Mages and two 4th and two 6th level Pearls of Power, although the latter are used to keep Extended Energy Immunity up for all four elements. I have a Contingency Last Breath spell for level-loss-free Reincarnate, although I'll likely swap that for True Resurrection.

Here's what I generally run with if I don't know what we're facing. Oh, and that ridiculous Venomfire spell got specifically removed. I like the combo of the cold version of Drifts of the Shalm and Bloodsnow for ground-bound opponents and Frostfell for sheer "screw saves, just die". Thoughts and ideas most appreciated.

0: Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Magic, Light, Mending, Read Magic
1: Calm Animals, Cure Light Wounds, Endure Elements, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Obscuring Mist, Produce Flame, Speak With Animals
2: Barkskin, Fog Cloud, Resist Energy, Dessicate, Blinding Spittle, Mass Snake's Swiftness, Spider Climb, Bloodsnow
3: Cure Moderate Wounds, Daylight, Poison, Remove Disease, Stone Shape, Spirit Jaws, Dominate Animal
4: Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Freedom of Movement, Spike Stones, Improved Wildshape, Improved Wildshape
5: Baleful Polymorph, Cure Critical Wounds, Wall of Fire, Wall of Thorns, Greater Stoneshape, Control Winds
6: Greater Dispel Magic, Mummify, Wall of Stone, Quickened Drifts of the Shalm, Extract Water Elemental, Find the Path
7: Mass Flesh to Salt, Fire Storm, Heal, True Seeing
8: Frostfell, Frostfell, Stormrage
9: Summon Elemental Monolith, Shapechange

[Kaelik]

I'm looking up a 17th level Druid sheet I have sitting around and listing all the spells that he has that you don't. Some of them may not be suited to your character, and some of them may have been prepared situationaly.

9: Cast in Stone
8: Maelstorm, Red Tide, Bombardment
7: Master Earth, Swamp Lung, Slime Wave, Rains of Roses
6: Extended Owl's Insight, Drown, Energy Immunity, Superior Resistance
5: Blizzard, Owl's Insight, Transmute Rock to Mud, Poison Thorns
4: Sheltered Vitality, Essence of the Raptor, Vortex of Teeth, Last Breath, Giant Vermin, Moon Bolt
3: Spike Growth, Greater Magic Fang, Haboob, Attune Form
2: Listening Lorecall, Kelpstrand, Nature's Favor
1: Faerie Fire, Babau Slime, Eyes of the Avoral, Omen of Peril

Other things to note:

I did see that you mentioned Energy Immunity and Last Breath, but it was easier to just list the ones you don't have listed.

Wildshape, always Wildshape into an Elemental before using Shapechange, you keep the feats you get from the Wildshape no matter your form.

Use your Shapechange wisely with you AC. If he always stays adjacent to you, then you can share one for as long as needed. If he takes the form of a Shadow Dragon he can basically be casting the 9th level spell Energy Drain with his actions, and you can ride him in whatever form you want, to also use cool Supernatural Abilities.

Another fun thing is to have your bet turn into a Beholder and direct his AMF eye on someone, and then you launch Kelpstrands all over them. Most things can't beat your suped up grapple check when in an AMF, and they also can't teleport away at that point. (It also negates Freedom of Movement). Maybe not the biggest abuse of Conjuration Creation + AMF, but a fun one.

As to advice about your spells:

1) Drop all the cures except heal and replace them with wands of Lesser Vigor, in combat, that is never going to be worth an action, waste of spell slots.

2) Probably when it comes to party makeup, you aren't going to want to do a lot of the things you have spells for. There is no reason to prepare Dispel Magic in a 4th level slot of the Wizard or Cleric can do it instead. Same maybe for Wall of Stone and Heal, though those are much better, so maybe you do want them out of that slot.

[foxfax]

9th: Dang it, forgot to mention setting-specific spells won't count. Sorry. Cast in Stone looks like what I use Mass Flesh to Salt for, only with a better DC and a better duration, making it very much better.

8th: Replacing one of my Frostfell spells with Red Tide is a nice idea, thanks for pointing me at that spell.

7th: As I'm Neutral Evil, I can't use Rain of Roses, unfortunately. Swamp Lung seems like an upgraded Drown so I'd prefer MFtS, but swapping Fire Storm for Slime Wave might be nasty. Master Earth seems nice too, but getting rid of True Seeing could hurt. Heal is, unfortunately, a gimme. It's just too good and has saved the party too often.

6th: Extended Owls Insight would be a fifth level slot. I don't have the feat but I do have the Rod. Purchasing a 5th level Pearl of Power would be good here instead. As to Drown, I've thought of it and now I'm rereading it, it seems really nasty against casters. Superior Resistance wouldn't help as she's wearing a Robe of the Vagabond with +6 resistance built in and a Wilding Clasp. She makes all her own gear. I'll add that to the first post.

5th: Blizzard is a spell I've looked at before, like Drown, but without a Mass Snowsight spell to go with the Mass Snowshoes I'd have to cast, it screws over the party as badly as the enemy. Owl's Insight on the other hand... I'd actually just ignored this spell. Now that I look at it it, wow. +1/2 Caster Level Insight bonus to Wisdom? Yowza. I'll be taking this instead of both Wall of Fire and Baleful Polymorph. Kicking my DC's up by 4 is too good. Thanks for pointing this out to me. Also, Poison Thorns is very nice, I'll be taking this instead of Cure Critical Wounds too. I'm leery of Transmute Rock to Mud's limitations (only on unworked or natural stone), since we tend to operate in more urban environs. We've had it work against us in a surprise attack so I know how good it is. I might swap Control Winds for it.

4th: Sheltered Vitality I'd missed, since our own undead (Cleric and Ranger) take care of enemy undead, but is nice to have as a backup. I think I'll swap Cure Serious Wounds for it. Essence of the Raptor I had never even heard of. But since Extended it runs for nearly 6 hours, this will be a nice buff to begin the day. I already like Vortex of Teeth despite my abysmal record at beating SR with it (6 attempts 1 success). I've been banned from offering Last Breath to anyone but me as none of them want to ride on the crazy Reincarnation train after our DM decided a roll of 100 included LA races. Giant Vermin unfortunately ran out of steam for me several levels ago due to the Vermin's lack of intelligence. Moon Bolt is nice. I am now stealing it. I believe the phrase is "yoink!"

3rd: Greater Magic Fang is not very good at the moment, since I found my Fleshripper a Necklace of Mighty Fists. Haboob is one of our Wizard's favourite spells, so that's covered. Attune Form might be a candidate for a wand, though, since I've got some UMD ranks and we seem to be setting up for some plane-hopping.

2nd: Listening Lorecall, I've only got 5 ranks in Listen, since we've got a Rogue in the party, but this spell might make me take another 5 to get full-on Blindsight for hours at a time. Kelpstrand, I'd forgotten about. Who doesn't like web-shooters? Bye-bye Fog Cloud. I prefer broad buffs so just just hitting my AC with Nature's Favor would likely be out, since my Fleshripper is a dedicated caster-hunter and doesn't need help hitting them.

1st: Eyes of the Avoral will be a nice buff for our Rogue, as will Babau Slime for me and my raptor before a major fight. Omen of Peril looks like I'd forget it existed, despite its obvious utility, so I'll put it on the front page of my character sheet.

I'd never thought about Wild Shaping before Polymorph, to be honest. But all those nice feats would be tasty, especially if I turn Chronotyryn.

Thanks a lot for your help. Anyone else got ideas?

[wotmaniac]

<pulls up character sheet for last 10th-level druid>
To add to the list:
5: Animal Growth ; Call Lighting Storm ; Stone Skin
4: Eye of the Hurricane ; Wall of Water ; Summon Elementite Swarm (nice for a small AoE Drown for medium-or-smaller) ; Control Water
3: Spikes ; Primal Instinct ; Sleet Storm
2: Primal Hunter (used in conjunction with Primal Instinct) ; Master Air
1: Pass w/o Trace ; Foundation of Stone
I also had the full array of Bite of the Were(x) (but I was using a non-wildshape variant, and the entire Core Polymorph line was banned; otherwise, they aren't nearly as useful ... though, a +16 enhancement to STR is always nice for anybody)