Chinese Star: Mixing Strength and Beauty

[ketaro]

Although a bit rough looking, having the pictures be besides the maneuver they're representing is pretty dang awesome. Makes this thread look way cooler than any of os'

[oslecamo]

I concur it makes for a pretty awesome effect, so I'm going to blatantly steal borrow inspiration from this idea to improve the other threads.

EDIT:Well, managed to do it for 1st level Doll Judgement maneuvers, but it takes quite a bit of work to get the positions right. Guess I'll be doing it bit by bit over time. Extra kudos to  TechyKat for all the work put into this arrangement!

[ketaro]

You might have to even crop some pictures to get it just right.
Edit: Oh yeah, you could just resize wide pictures in the post box, couldn't you...
Seeing it in Doll Judgement too, it definitely looks cooler.

[TechyKat]

Glad to hear that people like the look of it.

Colourful Negation Barrier has been reworded as to be clearer, hopefully it shows off the intent more as it is supposed to allow you to absorb magical projectiles and other such effects, but not be blanket catch all.

Edit: Do you guys think the Descending Flower Slam and Sky Dragon Kick let you jump up high enough? I was looking at the Jump skill recently and just realised how hard it is to jump high (not to mention that high jumping is the exact same as long jumping in vertical height attained.)

[TechyKat]

I always thought that Sky Dragon Kick kinda sucked, so I made a new(ish) version of it. Tell me what you think about it.

Edit: I also realised that one of the manoeuvres didn't actually do anything (Colourful Negation Barrier) and fixed that up good. Also fixed some typos and stuff. Tell me if I missed any!

[Anomander]

Questions (this is by no means meant to evaluate balance):

-There doesn't seem to be a level 7-8 stance for this discipline. Intentional?

-Colourful Negation Barrier: How does it work? Nowhere does it mention the area of the barrier you concentrate on so it is unclear who is protected by that barrier if it is maintained.

-Qi Overdrive: I am confused. The description refers to "these attacks" and "these extra attacks" but makes it clear that "you may make only 1 extra attack with this boost". So which attack does what? As is...

If you make any melee attacks in this time, you may make one extra melee attack when you hit a target, this attack is made at a -2 penalty

Ok, so the first melee attack, hit or miss (it doesn't specify it must hit, just that it must be made), allows you to make an extra attack if that first attack had a -2 penalty...

These attacks are charged with your Qi energy and reverberate within your enemy. If these attacks hit, they disable any fast healing and regeneration for 1 round and on your targets turn, deal their damage again.

And now "these attacks" (perhaps the attack that triggered the extra attack and the extra attack itself?) inflict a debuff and deal damage again right after when the target begins its turn (or targets, if the extra attack is against someone else. It doesn't require that it be made against the same target). Then...

If the damage of these extra attacks kills the target, you may choose to completely destroy them making only a true resurrection or wish able to bring the target back to life.

Now its "these extra attacks". There are two attacks, but only one extra attack. Is this whole thing supposed to only depend on the one extra attack or both attacks? There is definitely a mistake somewhere in there.
Perhaps there were originally more than one extra attack and that got changed.

-Instant Lightning Strike: It says that "if you do not take the attack on every round, the effect ends and you cannot use the manoeuvre until you recover your maneuvers again". Is if this happens you cannot use it until you recover ALL your maneuvers, rather than just recovering that one maneuver? Because if it isn't the case, I don't understand why it even has to be said that you can't use the maneuver again until it is recovered, being the norm.

-True Focus, True Grace: As written, it seems to indicate that you roll the skill check once and the result applies to all those kinds of checks for one round, along with dealing Iaijutsu bonus damage to every attack. Is this correct?

[TechyKat]

Questions (this is by no means meant to evaluate balance):

-There doesn't seem to be a level 7-8 stance for this discipline. Intentional?

-Colourful Negation Barrier: How does it work? Nowhere does it mention the area of the barrier you concentrate on so it is unclear who is protected by that barrier if it is maintained.

Basically, as you maintain the barrier on yourself, if you become the target of another spell or effect that affects an area. (e.g a fireball) you can negate the effects of the action. It is technically a personal buff type spell that has area effects when it is activated in that it negates spells. It doesn't protect anyone other than the user technically, but its side benefits are that it negates spells completely making those who would be harmed or would otherwise have to make a save not need to.

-Qi Overdrive: I am confused. The description refers to "these attacks" and "these extra attacks" but makes it clear that "you may make only 1 extra attack with this boost". So which attack does what? As is...

If you make any melee attacks in this time, you may make one extra melee attack when you hit a target, this attack is made at a -2 penalty

Ok, so the first melee attack, hit or miss (it doesn't specify it must hit, just that it must be made), allows you to make an extra attack if that first attack had a -2 penalty...

uh. no. It does specific that the original hit must connect. I guess the wording is funny. I shall fix it. (It is intended that if you make an attack that strikes the target, you sorta double up the blow which is done via the extra attack and the extra attack has the minus to hit.)

These attacks are charged with your Qi energy and reverberate within your enemy. If these attacks hit, they disable any fast healing and regeneration for 1 round and on your targets turn, deal their damage again.

And now "these attacks" (perhaps the attack that triggered the extra attack and the extra attack itself?) inflict a debuff and deal damage again right after when the target begins its turn (or targets, if the extra attack is against someone else. It doesn't require that it be made against the same target). Then...

If the damage of these extra attacks kills the target, you may choose to completely destroy them making only a true resurrection or wish able to bring the target back to life.

Now its "these extra attacks". There are two attacks, but only one extra attack. Is this whole thing supposed to only depend on the one extra attack or both attacks? There is definitely a mistake somewhere in there.
Perhaps there were originally more than one extra attack and that got changed.

You are correct, it was originally two extra attacks and I changed it and didn't check it fully. I will fix it so that the attack are on the same target and so that it works as intended, where the additional attack is the trigger for the debuff and the anti-resurrection/destruction stuff.

-Instant Lightning Strike: It says that "if you do not take the attack on every round, the effect ends and you cannot use the manoeuvre until you recover your maneuvers again". Is if this happens you cannot use it until you recover ALL your maneuvers, rather than just recovering that one maneuver? Because if it isn't the case, I don't understand why it even has to be said that you can't use the maneuver again until it is recovered, being the norm.

I put that in originally to attempt to prevent people using the attacks then on the final round using the recovery option, but I already put wording in to prevent that otherwise. Just a mistake, I'll fix it.

-True Focus, True Grace: As written, it seems to indicate that you roll the skill check once and the result applies to all those kinds of checks for one round, along with dealing Iaijutsu bonus damage to every attack. Is this correct?

I apparently missed a couple vital words there, that interpretation is not correct, I shall fix that also.

Thanks for telling me about these mistakes, I knew there were some in there I wasn't seeing.

Edit: I believe I've fixed the issues you brought up, thanks a lot. Tell me if you have any others and I'll try to clear it up. These things help the manoeuvre set seem more polished.

[Anomander]

True Focus, True Grace
It is still the same but now you must roll IF for every check. Intended?

Also, is it normal that there isn't a level 7-8 stance for this discipline?


Always glad to help! One more minor point that I've been wondering about after a closer look at the maneuvers' names is where they are coming from.
Perhaps many are translated differently but a lot of them seem to come out of nowhere when Hong Meiling has so many spellcards to pick from.

I made you comparison lists to better explain my meaning.

(click to show/hide)

? = Spellcard that doesn't exist?
* = Perhaps an intended match or a different translation

?Closing of the Gate
?Flowing Qi Form
?Fragrant Orb Strike
?Inner Strength
?Three Point Strike
?Catching a White Feather
?Descending Flower Slam
?Radiant Rainbow Spirals
*Water Barrier Tai Ji Quan
*Piercing Red Strikes
*Earth Dragon Leap
?Qi Burst Tai Ji Quan
*Scarlet Inch Crush
*Fierce Tiger’s Focus
?Radiant Rolling Counter
?Colourful Negation Barrier
?Instant Lightning Strike
?Qi Overdrive
?True Focus, True Grace

(click to show/hide)

**Very probably match
*Perhaps the intended match or a different translation
!!Probably unused
In parenthesis I put which maneuver I think is meant to represent the spellcard.

**Fragrant Wave (Fragrant Wave)
*Water Taichi Fist (Water Barrier Tai Ji Quan?)
**Colorful Rain (Colourful Rain)
*Red Cannon (Scarlet Inch Crush?)
*Red Energy Release (Piercing Red Strikes?)
*Tiger Chi Release (Fierce Tiger’s Focus)
*Spiral-Light Steps (Spiralling Light Steps)
**Intense Rainbow Fist (Rainbow Sign “Intense Rainbow Fist”)
!!Kick of Showering Brilliance
**Yellow Quake Kick (Yellow Tremor Kick)
*Earth Dragon Wave (Earth Dragon Leap?)
**Sky Dragon Kick (Sky Dragon Kick)

**Flower Sign "Gorgeous Sweet Flower" (Gorgeous Sweet Flower)
!!Flower Sign "Selaginella 9"
!!Rainbow Sign "Wind Chime of Colorful Rainbow"
!!Illusion Sign "Flower Imaginary Dream Vine"
**Colorful Sign "Colorful Rain" (Colourful Rain)
**Colorful Sign "Colorful Light Chaotic Dance" (Colourful Light Chaotic Dance)
**Colorful Sign "Extreme Color Typhoon" (Colourful Wind Typhoon?)
**Colorful Sign "Extreme Colorful Typhoon" (Colourful Wind Typhoon?)
!!Colorful Sign "Colorful Light Wind Chime"/Colorful Sign "Colorful Wind Chime"
**Extreme Color "Colorful Light Chaotic Dance" (Colourful Light Chaotic Dance)
!!Ultimate Color "Mad Colorful Dance"
!!Light Sign "Brilliant Light Gem"
!!Extreme Light "Glorious Morning Star"
!!Flowery Sign "Mountain Breaker"
!!Three Blasts "Colorful Ultimate Mountain Breaker"
**Flowery Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm" (Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm")
!!Brilliance "Rainbow Brilliance Palm"
!!Colorful Flip "Fluttering Petals and Falling Leaves"
!!Colorful Flower "Rainbow Taijiquan"
!!Colorful Brilliance "Rainbow Taichi"
!!Rainbow Sign "Intense Rainbow Fist"
!!Chi Sign "Star Bullets"
**Attack Sign "Roc Fist" (Strike Sign “Roc’s Fist”)
**Chi Sign "Earth Dragon Sky Dragon Kick" (Earth and Sky Dragon Kick)
**Chi Sign "Fierce Tiger Energy Release" (Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength")
**Fiery Attack "Roc-Killing Fist" (Destructive Strike “Sudden Roc’s Fist”)
!!Colorful Sign "Vivid Color Downpour"

[TechyKat]

Yes you are intended to roll Iaijutsu for every check. It isn't normal for no 7-8 stance, but I wasn't able to think of one and it feels complete enough. I might still knock one out (and ruin all the formatting but whatever) at some point.

On names. I actually mostly just used the fighting game moves and a bunch of others are simply alternate translations. The reason I use Taijiquan instead of tai chi fist, is mostly because I think it sounds better since they mean the same thing one is just romanised and translated the other just romanised. The invented names such as Qi Burst is because none of the spellcards/fighting game moves really reflect what the attack actually does and despite that being a running theme in basically all of the Tome of Battle things, official or not. I personally think that sometimes you gotta go with a no-brainer name that matches the mechanics better. I'll explain all the invented names anyway though.

(click to show/hide)

Closing of the Gate - Well, she is a gate guard. She does that pretty often. So I made what would most likely be a staple of people using this discipline and gave it a name that symbolises what Meiling and in extension all people using this discipline do, which is protect others and themselves.
Flowing Qi Form - Qi flows through all living things in most explanations that I've heard of it, so I just named it that to emphasise what the discipline uses. Also its a nice thing kinda like an anima in Exalted which gives users of the stance a bit of customisation, hence how I described it being different for each user.
Fragrant Orb Strike - I got the idea for this one from Ibuki in street fighter, her Raida attack. Since immediately going for something like    Chi Sign "Star Bullets" on a level 1 move felt a bit over the top and I was planning to make a Star Bullet later (though I couldn't think of anything good that wasn't just a boring ranged attack.)
Inner Strength - Tiger Chi Release but downgraded, so I gave it a less cool name to show it is less powerful.
Three Point Strike - This was going to be Searing Red Fist, but then I realised the name didn't match and that the pressure point poke type attack is a classic in most martial arts movies so I gave it a name that I felt fit.
Catching a White Feather - The name is literally in the quote, she says that to Youmu when she beats her in Versus mode. Catching a white feather is supposed to be a martial arts trick where they catch a sword, I added the sunder because of Youkai strength!
Descending Flower Slam - Different translation of Kick of Showering Brilliance, I looked around for different translations and I liked this one the most, though changing it wouldn't really change it much.
Radiant Rainbow Spirals - I just made this one up, it was based off Spiral Light Steps so I took the steps out and made it into something else, more spirally.
Water Barrier Tai Ji Quan - Just Water Tai Chi Fist, the barrier move. But it doesn't sound like it does anything defensive without the word barrier in there.
Piercing Red Strikes - Also supposed Searing Red Fist/Radiant Rainbow Fist but changed slightly.
Earth Dragon Leap - Intended to pair with Sky Dragon kick, to make Earth Dragon Leap Sky Dragon Kick like the spellcard Earth Dragon Sky Dragon Kick.
Qi Burst Tai Ji Quan - Well. It's the Border Escape mechanic in the Touhou fighting games. I didn't actually know it was called Border Escape until recently, they both fit quite well so are pretty interchangeable.
Scarlet Inch Crush - Different translation of Red Energy Release that I like better. Also its kinda like a 1 inch punch, which is why it is so destructive to objects (thats also because of the flavour text of the ability that the developers wrote.)
Fierce Tiger’s Focus - Fierce Tiger's Energy Release/ Tiger Chi Release etc, lots of tiger stuff in Meilings' moves
Radiant Rolling Counter - Another move I got the inspiration for from Street Fighter, this time from Abel and his Marseilles Roll
Colourful Negation Barrier - Does what Water Barrier does but better so it has a more colourful name.
Instant Lightning Strike - This one is pretty uninspired but I couldn't really think of any spellcards which really match this kinda instant strike and using the spellcard names for no reason didn't feel right.
Qi Overdrive - I was watching Jojo part 1 and I regret nothing. 
True Focus, True Grace -  I ran out of good names. Sorry.
Spiralling Light Steps - Spiral Light Steps just made into a stance instead.
Colourful Stopping Fist - Also a name kinda pulled out of my butt, just put Colour in front of a cliche martial arts attack name
Yellow Tremor Kick - Yellow Quake Kick

Yeah I didn't use a bunch of names that I should've. Though a bunch of them like Mountain Breaker would pretty much just be others like Roc's Fist.

Edit: I also realise I kinda ignored my method of naming stuff for the feats, I'm apparently not very consistent.

[ketaro]

I know TechyKat's not active for over a year so I suppose this could be aimed as Os to consider changing?

I just noticed the 2nd level Strike "Colorful Rain" has the same issue I had with Drunken Demon's 2nd level Strike "Oni Spirit Bomb" in that you're getting a full skill check of damage out of a maneuver that comes online at 3rd level and has an area of effect equivalent to a Fireball spell at 5th level (on top of Colorful Rain also having no friendly fire issues as it buffs allies while also hurting enemies).

Consider reducing Colorful Rain to half of an Iaijutsu Skill Check for damage perhaps?

[oslecamo]

Done.