Author Topic: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher  (Read 4934 times)

Offline Garryl

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Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« on: May 13, 2013, 11:05:22 AM »
I'm going to run the Red Hand of Doom campaign soon. My group would like to use their characters from the previous campaign, Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, if possible. The only problem is that RHoD is supposed to start at level 5 and end around level 10-12, but the SGoS characters ended around level 7-8. Has anyone done this before? Both the campaign in general and scaling it up in specific?

I know that the time limit, and the related travel time, is supposed to be an important issue in the campaign. I'm worried that the higher-level magic will trivialize it. At level 9, the Wizard can get Teleport to zip across the area in no time. That's normally not supposed to happen until near the end of the campaign, but with a higher starting level, it would come relatively early. Even so, Phantom Steed is available right from the beginning either way (although with more spell slots, it's actually practical for the 8th level party, whereas a 6th level party would barely have enough castings for everyone), and its massive movement rate and long duration (both of which are further enhanced by the higher starting level) would also help to trivialize the travel time. Is the effect of magic too much for the campaign to handle? Do I need to reign in what spells can do for the original concept to work?

As far as the encounters themselves are concerned, I figure I can just add a couple of levels to the enemies, including bigger dragons (many of the ones in the campaign are supposed to only be Medium, which is hardly impressive for a dragon). It's also a good excuse to rebuild parts of the horde with ToB levels instead of Warrior, Fighter, and Monk levels, and to make the various bosses more interesting (or at least give the spellcasters ranks in Concentration).

My expected players are a Rogue/Swordsage, a Wizard, a Druid, a Barbarian/Warblade, and possibly a Psion (the player isn't always available and doesn't make it to that many games). We mostly use Core/SRD and ToB, plus a few other books here and there.

So, any thoughts on the matter? What do I need to do to make this work at a higher level, if it's even possible at all?

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 11:16:40 AM »
I ran a converted form of RHoD for my Viking Gestalt game.  They started... at 7th? 6th and the equivalent of the Battle of Brindol got them the XP to reach 12th level.

I heavily modded it, though.  The only thing that was the same, was the plot framework.  Instead of a hobgoblin army, it was a Tanarukk horde.  Instead of Dragons, they had Demon help.

I did have available "teleportation points" that played into my plot, and the PC's could use them. (They were equal to Menhir Circles ala Masters of the Yuirwood from Unapproachable East).  That kept the PC's from making liberal use of Teleport all the time.

The other thing to keep in mind with Teleport is that you have to have seen the location you are teleporting to.  It's easy for the PC's to teleport back to Drellin's Ferry or Brindol, but they still have to trudge their way out to the ruins of Rhest (I suppose they could attempt to scry Sarvith at Rhest, as his name is on the map).

Give me a few minutes, and I'll get you a link to my campaign guide, so you can see what I did.

Here is where my campaign diary picks up just before the RHoD conversion: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1969.msg57984#msg57984

I got behind on my campaign journal, but did write about the massive last battle:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6421.msg110746#msg110746

This one should also have some insights: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=222.0

This part isn't in the campaign journal yet, but when my PC's went to my version of Rhest (via boat, to the equivalent of the island of Svalbard), it took them several days to sail north, but they did short-circuit the return by getting an NPC Hathran to teleport to their boat, then teleport back to the equivalent of Brindol with them.  They were around 9th level by that time, though the wizard didn't have teleport yet.  Your PC's would likely just teleport themselves back.  Again, they'll have to travel out to Rhest first.  It might be worthwhile to have a reason why they can't just scry wyrmlord Sarvith, and then teleport to his location.  This isn't wholly unreasonable, as the Red Hand would want to ensure this secret operation remained secret.  Figuring out a way to do it in the rules could be tricky.  Maybe some big Will save-boosting ability for Sarvith?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 05:36:10 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 02:13:07 PM »
Thanks for the links. I remember reading them back when you first posted them and being impressed. Everything's better with Norse mythology.

The first session is today. Because of where we left off with the previous campaign, the players are actually starting right up at Vraath Keep. I have stat blocks prepared for either level (out of the book for 6th, and customized for 8th), depending on which level we decide to play at.

Regarding scrying, I was about to write this whole long thing about how anti-scrying tactics are impractical and unneeded, but I was working under the assumption that there were fewer anti-scrying options available than there actually are (I was only thinking of Nondetection and Mage's Private Sanctum, plus a few 6th-level and higher effects). Then I noticed Obscure Object (Bard 1, Cleric 3, Sor/Wiz 2, 8 hour duration), which suddenly makes it a lot more feasible. Three 2nd-level slots are much easier to swallow than 2-3 3rd-level slots for partial protection, or even a single 5th-level slot. Scry-protection suddenly becomes feasible, at least one key targets. You can read what I was in the middle of writing below.
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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 03:42:30 PM »
How does Obscure Object protect a creature against scrying?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 05:21:42 PM »
It works a lot better when you misread the target line. Doh.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 05:30:17 PM »
Your initial plans seemed fine to me.  I would be taking steps to keep the Razorfiends secret.  I'd go with what you wrote up above.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2013, 01:33:39 AM »
The first session went well enough. The Psion's psicrystal scouted the courtyard undetected, but didn't look into either of the occupied interior areas. The party then entered the courtyard, and the Rogue attracted the attention of the goblin dire wolf riders when he peeked into the stables. They raised the alarm, calling out Karkilan 2 rounds later, the manticore a round after that, and the hobgoblin veterans the round thereafter. Koth would have come out the next round (round 6), but the party beat a hasty retreat after Karkilan dropped the Psion to -9 in 2 blows (the Psion's player was still getting used to his character and forgot about the Share Pain/Vigor buffing he had on his sheet). Karkilan had emerged from the hole in the Barracks wall, which happened to be right next to where the Psion and Wizard were standing (a not too inappropriate location given that the apparent main threat at the time was on the opposite end of the courtyard). What they didn't do, unfortunately, was move away during the 1 round between the minotaur coming out and attacking, which let Karkilan get some clean swings on the two squishies (also negating the Wizard's Summon Monster 3 that he was casting).

Jorr was surprisingly ineffective, but that was just luck. On his 5 damage rolls (1d8+1), he rolled 4 1s and a 2, for a total of 11 damage. Mind you, the goblin riders were equally ineffective, as only one even managed to land a hit before they went down. The dire wolves (replacing worgs) worked well enough, landing some solid hits on the Rogue/Swordsage before going down.

Karkilan was one heck of a damage dealer. 4 attacks will do that. He survived the fight, blinded (Glitterdust) at 1/3 hp. The manticore shot 12 spikes, but was unharmed. The players retreated as soon as the veterans came out (before they otherwise acted), what with the Psion being down and the sounds of further reinforcements (Koth casting spells) emanating from inside. The Wizard cast Haste, the Rogue/Swordsage Shadow Jaunted away with the Psion's near-corpse, and everyone just beat a hasty retreat.

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The hobgoblin veterans and Koth never made it to the fight. The manticore was just a stock manticore, straight out of the SRD. Likewise, the dire wolves were completely standard but for having masterwork studded leather barding (although, module-wise, they weren't standard, as they replaced the worgs).

It was at the end of the session that we realized that there were no party members capable of healing, or even of operating a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. The Druid we had been expecting to be present wasn't, as said character was a secondary character played by one of the PCs only when not enough people were present. Since the Psion's player made it, the Druid wasn't there. Jorr brought everyone back to his cabin, used some DM fiat healing poultices to make sure everyone healed to full overnight, and gave them 6 potions of Lesser Vigor before heading off to warn Drellin's Ferry that the threat was confirmed (goblins + minotaur + manticore + spellcasting = bad news).

I'm trying to figure out what to do from here. The players will need some method of restoring lost hp (namely, someone to operate a wand of CLW or Lesser Vigor, or an appropriate similar solution). The Barbarian/Warblade has a lot of health (95 hp when not raging) and is not built to avoid damage in any way shape or form (AC is around 14 most of the time due to Rage + Punishing Stance), so a lot of damage gets taken even when the casters aren't getting targeted and letting themselves get crushed. When I run one-shot campaigns, I usually give the players a Bunko's Bargain Basement Wand of Cure Light Dungeon Crawling Wounds (the name changes every time, but it's always a wand of CLW with unlimited charges that anyone can use), but I don't feel that's appropriate for a more significant ongoing campaign. I could implement the healing surges homebrew rule I wrote up so long ago, but it's more complex than my players would want (they're generally not that big into major rules stuff, so less is better). I could just make healing wands usable by anyone, or say "screw it" and give essentially unlimited healing outside of combat. Thoughts?

Another question is where to go from here. The various scouting parties that Koth has in the area won't start arriving back at Vraath Keep for another day or two, so the PCs have a bit of time to try again before reinforcements make the position even less assailable. That said, it's not an issue until after the players get their second shot at an attack.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2013, 09:47:43 AM »
Healing belts for everyone?  They are cheap enough to justify everyone having one, it gives them reliable and (campaign wise) unlimited healing, but will still require them to not overextend themselves, as the healing per day is limited.

Why doesn't the rogue/swordsage have ranks in UMD?  A wand of lesser vigor for out of combat healing - it won't matter if he fails the check 16 times out of 20.

Speaking of which, how did the psion stabilize?  Just lucky enough to get 10% on the first roll?

Offline kitep

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2013, 01:00:31 PM »
I've always liked healing belts as well, with a wand of lesser vigor as backup.  But I believe RHOD is a "race the clock" scenerio, so I would avoid giving them unlimited free healing.  Make 'em spend their resources on healing or on other things; or decide if they want to wait until they're at full strength or rush ahead at less than full strength.  And I would encourage someone (or oneS) to put at least 1 point in UMD.  It only takes a 20 to activate a wand, and it doesn't use charges when you fail to activate it, so out of combat healing is pretty automatic, even if you only have a 1/2 rank in UMD.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 01:04:55 PM by kitep »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2013, 03:07:45 PM »
Healing belts might work, but would probably be complained about for not providing enough healing when needed. At an average of 27/day, the Barbarian can easily go through 2 or 3 belts in a big fight, plus what everyone else might need. But, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'll throw a few of them into the treasure in Vraath Keep.

The Psion's Psicrystal rolled just high enough (15) on the untrained Heal check to stabilize him.

Oh, by the way, here are the characters, so I can refer to them by name instead of by class, which is particularly awkward for the multiclassed ones.

Herkimer ben Jitney, Dwarf Barbarian 4/Warblade 4. I may be misspelling the name. The player is still getting used to how ToB maneuvers work. In combat (enraged and in Punishing Stance), he walks around with an AC of 13 (lowest in the party) but attacks at +20/+15 for ~24 damage before Power Attack. Survives thanks to 95 hp even without raging, but takes a lot of damage. Like to walk around with a shield out of combat, but that causes complications as he has to remove it when battle starts (losing out on movement or a full attack on the first turn), and forcing him to record even more numbers and situational modifiers on his sheet that he has trouble keeping track of (damage one-handed vs. two-handed vs. with rage, AC with and without shield and in a rage and in Punishing Stance, attack bonus normally vs. with rage, Power Attack's effects on all the above, etc.).

Dexter Slab, Human Rogue 4/Swordsage 4. Low attack bonus, but a bit of a blender when Sneak Attack and maneuvers are active. Does not, unfortunately, have UMD, but I don't think he's selected his maneuvers and skills for the past couple of levels, so that can probably be rectified.

Welf, Gray Elf Wizard (which specialization?) 8. I think the character is supposed to be heading into Loremaster at some point. BFC focused.

Jellal, Human Psion (kineticist) 5/Kineticist (fire) 3. Still learning what tricks he has available. Enjoys blasting and is inordinately fond of Matter Agitation in combat for some reason.

Herkimer's player also plays Vespa, Human Druid 8, when we don't have enough players at the table.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Red Hand of Doom a few levels higher
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 05:44:25 PM »
Herkimer ben Jitney, Dwarf Barbarian 4/Warblade 4.
...
Herkimer's player also plays Vespa, Human Druid 8, when we don't have enough players at the table.
Interesting.  Just a note, based upon my own experience playing RHoD back in the day, running my altered campaign, and just reading others' experiences over the 'net:  The druid would be a better character for the RHoD campaign.

Seriously, the adventure designers clearly only considered a typical party composed of Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard when they wrote the adventure.  Druids make some of the "missions" SOOOOOO easy to overcome.  Scouting out Vraath Keep and the Ruins of Rhest, taking out the bridge with stone shape, getting eyes on the Hoard for the first time, etc.  So many things in the adventure are made better by having a Druid around.

Add to that the fact the party doesn't have any reliable healing, and I might honestly give some thought to encouraging the Barb/Warblade player to play his Druid instead, all the time.  They will have a much harder time of things A) without a druid, and B) without reliable healing.

They can still have fun without the druid, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the players' characters dies along the way... and they don't have the means to activate the free resurrection dropped into the adventure, either.

EDIT: Obviously, some UMD ranks would allow the activation of the resurrection eventually, but at 10 minutes per attempt, it might take a while to get someone resurrected that way.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 05:47:01 PM by ksbsnowowl »