Fun Finds v4.0

[linklord231]

My interpretation is that an Artificer gets every item creation feat that has only a caster level as a prerequisite, at or near the level he would meet that prerequisite if he were a straight caster.  Feats that do not have only a caster level prerequisite, he would not get - or rather, he gets them at or near level ((null value)).  He still can choose certain such feats according to the rules given in the second paragraph.

[Kethrian]

Then why are you arguing so hard about the meaning of the word "every", if you aren't using that meaning for your own interpretation?

"Every" means "all the individual members of a set without exception."

You are making a huge exception that isn't stated anywhere in the sentence, or even the whole ability description, in question.  If you have to make exceptions to the very word you're arguing over to make it fit, while my interpretation does not, it seems pretty clear whose argument is falling apart.

[linklord231]

I am including every item creation feat in my interpretation. 

For any given Item Creation feat, the question isn't "Does the Artificer gain this feat," but rather "When does the Artificer gain this feat?"
For feats that do not have a CL requirement, the Artificer will gain them at or near level ((null value)). 
Some feats are never available to any given spellcaster, so they aren't given to the Artificer for free either. 

[Kethrian]

Yes, I already saw you are including every item creation feat, except ones with other feats as prerequisites and ones that do not have listed CL minimums.  Two exceptions.  And still choosing to ignore the fact that the very next sentence does not mention anything about the listed feats being examples and that it is a complete, closed list, with no wording to suggest there are other feats that are gained but not mentioned in it.

So it's either your interpretation, with two exceptions to the word "every" and ignoring extra clarifying context from the very next sentence, vs my interpretation which very nicely allows for "every" to apply without exception, as it fits with the extra context.

[linklord231]

I'm not excepting anything.  Artificers get every single item creation feat at or near the level it becomes available to spellcasters.  But, since it is impossible to determine at what level some feats become available to spellcasters, it is likewise impossible to determine at what level that feat becomes available to Artificers. 

The Artificer gets every item creation feat ever.  We just don't know when he gets some of them.  For those ones, it is assumed that he just has to take them with his normal feats (or one of his "bonus" bonus feats, if applicable). 

[zook1shoe]

Wow... That exploded!

take the psionic artifier's wording... It actually refers to the table provided, whereas the regular does not. Its RAI they both use the table, but since the normal has poor wording, it does not apply to just the table.

the way the normal artificer uses the table, is because ~1 of those listed is at a lower level than its CL would be. That is why there's a blurb about 'at or near'.

they don't give other examples for determining the 'near' part, so the unlisted feats gained are at the appropriate level. This does not allow you to use CL tricks to speed up this progression of feats, since its based off class level.

[Sinfire Titan]

The Psymbiot feat in CP gives you a +2 untyped bonus on all ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws for as long as 2 conditions are met (you have to be psionically focused, and there needs to be another psionic character/creature with a ML of at least 3rd within 10ft of you, provided that creature isn't an astral construct or other entity shaped, crafted, or summoned by you).

Psicrystals are not summoned by you, and can gain a manifester level of 3rd any number of ways. While the feat is a purely numerical bonus, a +2 untyped bonus on saves and initiative checks is comparable to Improved Initiative (decent, if you have nothing better to do with your feats).

[Keldar]

Congratulations the pedantic argument about artificers and sentence structure has changed the topic.  Make a new one if you want to keep arguing what the definition of is is.


Back to the fun.
Are there any psionic symbiotes?  Psicrystals might count as crafted by you, at least for some DMs, so wouldn't be useful for Psymbiot shenanigans.

[Demelain]

There are a few, but in general they're pretty underwhelming.

[zook1shoe]

The fiend ones are a little better

[sirpercival]

This is more a hilarious find than a "fun" one. Another example of the D&D designers being very poor at their job.

The template should grant two special abilities in addition to divine endurance. You can add a third if that ability has little direct effect on combat. The Vecna-blooded template provides a good example of such an ability with its cloak of mystery. The cloak adds some interesting story elements to the creature, but it has little effect during a fight.

Emphasis mine.  So... one of the most powerful abilities in the game has little effect on a fight? You mean... the fact that (a) you can get it for free by gaining and then losing the template; (b) it is essential for long-term survival in high-level play; and especially (c) it can give you nigh-unbeatable invisibility, negating true seeing completely... means it's mostly flavorful story elements?

I just really don't know what to say. I read that and started laughing.

[Demelain]

Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.

I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.

[Maat Mons]

Floater is listed as an option for a normal (non-improved) familiar in Dragon 319, on page 36.  It's statted out in Dungeon 110, on page 88. 

A floater can use detect psionics as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That on its own would be pretty neat. 

It also can use demoralize as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a possible -2 to the attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks of all of your enemies for the entire battle. 

Finally, it can use ego whip as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a 2nd-level power being made available to 1st-level characters, and you're not even spending your own actions to use it. 

A floater also has a fly speed with perfect maneuverability and a poisoned attack, because why not? 

Are there any psionic symbiotes? 

A critic lizard (Dungeon 110, p87) isn't a symbiot, but it is an animal that has a manifester level of 1.  It's also a common pet, tiny size, and CR 1/4, so It's not even weird to carry one around.  It doesn't list a market price though.  Also, you'd need to boost its manifester level by +2 in some fashion to use it to fuel the feat. 

[linklord231]

Intercepting
+1 Bonus
Activation: Free (Command)
This weapon grants you one extra attack in a round. If a foe attempts to charge, bull rush, overrun, or grapple you, you make a single melee attack against that foe before he attempts his action.

I think the intent was that you only get the attack when you're charged/bull rushed/etc, but the way it reads allows you to get an extra attack once per round as long as you can make the Command activation - AND you get a free attack on anyone that charges etc.

Lol that's gonna start the exact same argument Kethrian and I just had all over again.

[Keldar]

Don't make me use this!

[brujon]

I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

[Nytemare3701]

I'll repost it here, since i figured it is awesome for abuse.

Feral Rearing, feat from Champions of Darkness (Ravenloft supplement). It overrides your type, changing to animal. Has absolutely no pre-reqs. Taken at level 1 (doesn't actually requires you to, but it makes a lot of sense.). Let me say that again: it overrides whatever type you were before? Undead, Aberration, Living Construct, Construct, Fey... Doesn't matter, changes to animal, period. Have you ever thought about making a Tauric Creature using another Tauric Creature as a basis? Now you can. Apply the Tauric Template ad-infinitum, by combining a creature that has the feat with one that doesn't, until satisfaction. Magebred and Warbeast? Ding! Now available to PC's. I don't even want to talk about the fact that you can have, say, outsider RHD, and still be animal type. It's insane.

Just in time for Spirit Guard Udyr?

[Elevevated Beat]

Just in time for Spirit Guard Udyr?

Not sure if it'll make me want to play him again

[phaedrusxy]

Floater is listed as an option for a normal (non-improved) familiar in Dragon 319, on page 36.  It's statted out in Dungeon 110, on page 88. 

A floater can use detect psionics as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That on its own would be pretty neat. 

It also can use demoralize as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a possible -2 to the attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks of all of your enemies for the entire battle. 

Finally, it can use ego whip as a psi-like ability 3 times per day.  That's a 2nd-level power being made available to 1st-level characters, and you're not even spending your own actions to use it. 

A floater also has a fly speed with perfect maneuverability and a poisoned attack, because why not? 

Jumping Jehovah on a pogo stick!

[nijineko]

snip...

please don't do that. lots of other expletives to choose from.