[CO Build] As good as it gets: Building the best Druid build step-by-step!

[Dictum Mortuum]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

[brujon]

Lol, i was editing in the observation, when you edited your own, lol!

Alright, stopping the edit chain here^^

But yeah, Lion of Talisid is great for good characters who want to focus on melee. 

Lion gives:
Fear Immunity
Pounce
Self haste
Exalted Companion (mostly nice for the Int boost to your pet, one of the very few ways to have a better than animal intelligence)
A SLA of (effectively) holy word

In exchange for mostly crap no one cares about.

Moonspeaker is a bit more of a mixed bag, but the first 4 levels do give you a few nice things.  Note that Moonspeaker does not advance your Animal Companion, though.

Planar Shepard is still probably the best, though, even if you ignore the two real game breakers.  The magical beast/outsider/elemental wild shape has a few nice forms you can pull.

Even if it doesn't advance AC, there's a feat for a "Practiced Animal Companion" of sorts, though i don't recall exactly what it is ATM. For a mixed/balanced build, Moonspeaker does give you more than you trade for it, and with the feat you don't lose too much of your AC, and you lose out 4 levels of wildshape, which you can get back with an item from Magic of Faerun, Amulet of X (AFB). For a more melee focused build, i'd recommend either Warshaper or Nature's Warrior with a dip in Fist of the Forest. I really try to stay away from Planar Sheperd. It REEEEEEKS of cheese. Going down that road is like begging for a flying book in the head, even if you avoid the more powerful options. That said... WE ARE the Min/Max boards, and no druid guide has the right to call itself that if it doesn't recommend the BEST PrC there is for druids. For races, i think Human is best, really. Druids need a lot of feats, some of which are basically required to function well... Like Augment Summoning, Greenbound Summoning, Ashbound, Natural Spell, Extend Spell, etc...

[OblivionSmurf83]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

Yeah, those are all the obvious ones. What about Exalted Wild Shape or Aberration Wild Shape, or similar feats that are easy to qualify for, but can't be taken by every character?

Also, quick question: How are we (you) going to distinguish this guide from the Druid Handbook?

[Dictum Mortuum]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

Yeah, those are all the obvious ones. What about Exalted Wild Shape or Aberration Wild Shape, or similar feats that are easy to qualify for, but can't be taken by every character?

Also, quick question: How are we (you) going to distinguish this guide from the Druid Handbook?

Yes! I forgot about Aberration wild shape!

By not covering everything and by making just a build that has a small room for customizability.

[brujon]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

Yeah, those are all the obvious ones. What about Exalted Wild Shape or Aberration Wild Shape, or similar feats that are easy to qualify for, but can't be taken by every character?

Also, quick question: How are we (you) going to distinguish this guide from the Druid Handbook?

Yes! I forgot about Aberration wild shape!

By not covering everything and by making just a build that has a small room for customizability.

I think we could make 4 builds, actually. One "general" build that doesn't specifically focus in any of the Druid Triad. One Animal Companialist, one Summoner & One Wildshaper. Each with a small room for customizability. Druid Handbook doesn't actually have a "Builds" section, so this could enhance the guide rather than replace it.

[Noliar]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

[Dilvish]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

First level feat is obviously Spell Focus (Conjuration), and another one if the character's race allows it.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

First level feat is obviously Spell Focus (Conjuration), and another one if the character's race allows it.

Or if flaws are used.

[Noliar]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

First level feat is obviously Spell Focus (Conjuration), and another one if the character's race allows it.

Recommend me a good, first level druid conjuration spell that requires a save. Augment summoning will be good when the summon durations have gone up a bit but we're not God yet and we can't afford our first level feat to be dead weight. If we go with human or flaws are allowed then SF(conj) is what we pick as second choice. OTOH if retraining is allowed then we can wait until we're about to take Augment Summoning at third level and swap it in then.

[caelic]

Here's a question: is a one-level dip into Holt Warden justifiable?  You're swapping a level of wildshape and animal companion progression for domain spell slots from the Plant domain.  Most of those aren't thrilling, but it DOES mean you actually HAVE domain spell slots--which is nice if you decide to pick up other domains (from a dip into Contemplative, say.)  It's especially nice if you want to go for the Spell domain.

[Mooncrow]

Here's a question: is a one-level dip into Holt Warden justifiable?  You're swapping a level of wildshape and animal companion progression for domain spell slots from the Plant domain.  Most of those aren't thrilling, but it DOES mean you actually HAVE domain spell slots--which is nice if you decide to pick up other domains (from a dip into Contemplative, say.)  It's especially nice if you want to go for the Spell domain.

For a caster-focused build, absolutely. 

[Dictum Mortuum]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

First level feat is obviously Spell Focus (Conjuration), and another one if the character's race allows it.

Recommend me a good, first level druid conjuration spell that requires a save. Augment summoning will be good when the summon durations have gone up a bit but we're not God yet and we can't afford our first level feat to be dead weight. If we go with human or flaws are allowed then SF(conj) is what we pick as second choice. OTOH if retraining is allowed then we can wait until we're about to take Augment Summoning at third level and swap it in then.

That's the spirit Retraining is really an option: remember that the point is to have a build that is playable at all levels, not only after you get Wildshaping.

Here's a question: is a one-level dip into Holt Warden justifiable?  You're swapping a level of wildshape and animal companion progression for domain spell slots from the Plant domain.  Most of those aren't thrilling, but it DOES mean you actually HAVE domain spell slots--which is nice if you decide to pick up other domains (from a dip into Contemplative, say.)  It's especially nice if you want to go for the Spell domain.

If you are more caster-focused, gaining one spell/level/day might be good. Especially the first 3 levels are great.

[akalsaris]

Augment Summoning, Leadership, Natural Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Dragon Wild Shape, Metamagic (Quicken or Extent or ?), Craft Wondrous Item?

None of these are good at first level, most of them can't even be taken then.

How about Animal Devotion?

First level feat is obviously Spell Focus (Conjuration), and another one if the character's race allows it.

Recommend me a good, first level druid conjuration spell that requires a save. Augment summoning will be good when the summon durations have gone up a bit but we're not God yet and we can't afford our first level feat to be dead weight. If we go with human or flaws are allowed then SF(conj) is what we pick as second choice. OTOH if retraining is allowed then we can wait until we're about to take Augment Summoning at third level and swap it in then.

Wall of Smoke from SpC is a solid 1st level  druid conjuration spell that requires a save - it provides concealment and nauseates opponents. I agree that SF: Conj is suboptimal if you're only playing levels 1-2 though.

Some other suggestions for low level feats:
Companion Spellbound - share buffs with your AC within 30ft
Improved Initiative - +4 to Init is my default for a druid
Ashbound or Greenbound summoning - I never use greenbound because of the paperwork and cheesiness involved, but both are available from 1st
Power attack - decent enough if you have a high str for some reason
IUS+Improved Grapple - Not terrible in a core-only game or a heavily wildshape focused build

From 3rd level onwards:
Improved Toughness - always decent filler
Craft Wondrous Item - campaign-dependent, but you can get decent use out of it, especially if other party members can supply spells when you supply feats

[Mooncrow]

I think I do have to point back to Animal Devotion as an interesting early feat, especially if you can do flaws.  At first level - +2 sacred/profane strength bonus, +5 sacred/profane bonus to base land speed, or overland flight for one minute - that's not a bad deal.

[Dictum Mortuum]

I think I do have to point back to Animal Devotion as an interesting early feat, especially if you can do flaws.  At first level - +2 sacred/profane strength bonus, +5 sacred.profane bonus to base land speed, or overland flight for one minute - that's not a bad deal.

Indeed. It's pretty good, even for 1/day at low levels. You can retrain it later. I'm looking for other feats that are useful at first level, but besides wild cohort i haven't found any.

[Mooncrow]

You know, this thread has got me thinking - usually Moonspeaker is touted as one of the better Druid PrCs, but you end up giving up 4 levels of wild shape and it doesn't advance the Animal Companion at all.  Considering you get most of the benefit after 4 levels, it got me to thinking what we could pick up for the druid in those four levels out of the traditionally "bad" PrCs for druids. 

Hathran, for example, adds the planar binding line to the druid's spell list with just one level.  The already mentioned Holt Warden/Contemplative for domain fun, Sacred Exorcist for DMM - what else can we find for a caster focused druid in four levels?

[sirpercival]

You know, this thread has got me thinking - usually Moonspeaker is touted as one of the better Druid PrCs, but you end up giving up 4 levels of wild shape and it doesn't advance the Animal Companion at all.  Considering you get most of the benefit after 4 levels, it got me to thinking what we could pick up for the druid in those four levels out of the traditionally "bad" PrCs for druids. 

Hathran, for example, adds the planar binding line to the druid's spell list with just one level.  The already mentioned Holt Warden/Contemplative for domain fun, Sacred Exorcist for DMM - what else can we find for a caster focused druid in four levels?

Actually, the reason Moonspeaker is so good is that you can enter it from any divine casting class and get wildshape.  An Archivist/Moonspeaker is more advanced than a Druid/Moonspeaker, and Archivist gets tons of summoning as well.

[Mooncrow]

You know, this thread has got me thinking - usually Moonspeaker is touted as one of the better Druid PrCs, but you end up giving up 4 levels of wild shape and it doesn't advance the Animal Companion at all.  Considering you get most of the benefit after 4 levels, it got me to thinking what we could pick up for the druid in those four levels out of the traditionally "bad" PrCs for druids. 

Hathran, for example, adds the planar binding line to the druid's spell list with just one level.  The already mentioned Holt Warden/Contemplative for domain fun, Sacred Exorcist for DMM - what else can we find for a caster focused druid in four levels?

Actually, the reason Moonspeaker is so good is that you can enter it from any divine casting class and get wildshape.  An Archivist/Moonspeaker is more advanced than a Druid/Moonspeaker, and Archivist gets tons of summoning as well.

I'm referring to it being mentioned in most of the druid guides as "one of the few decent druid PrCs".  And it is pretty decent for caster-focused druids; I'm just curious how much we could get from other sources for giving up the same four levels of wild shape/AC advancement. 

[Noliar]

Level 2

Not too many decisions to make here. You gain woodland stride as a class ability (unless you took the rootwalker ACF which is reasonable if you expect a dungeon and underdark heavy campaign) and you are a bit better at everything except reflex saves. Hopefully that includes wealth - invest in barding for your animal companion and a wand of CLW or lesser vigor.

Skill ranks. Keep concentration, spot and listen maxed.

Skill trick for AC. We recommend attack anything because biting things that you don't want to get close to is its job.

Tactics. Note that summon natures ally now lasts longer than it takes to cast so it's more likely to be worthwhile but the right battlefield control spell is still a better bet.

[X-Codes]

Moonspeaker Stuff:

Level 1- Augment Summoning.  This saves you two feats if you start at 9+, or you can forego the typical Augment Summoning routine altogether, and instead just focus on summoning Elementals with Rashemi Elemental Summoning into Moonspeaker.  That routine comes online later, anyway.

Level 3- Extended Summoning.  The big drawback of summon spells is their very short duration, this handles that.

Level 4- Invisibility on your list, which is awesome for Summoners (you almost never attack directly), and expanded SNA lists.

SNA 3- Triton, which casts SNA 4 as an SLA.
SNA 6- Bralani Eladrin, which isn't that impressive, but it can really take a beating with it's Blur and Mirror Image SLAs.
SNA 7- Nymph, which has 7th-level Druid casting.
SNA 8- Lillend, which has 6th-level Bard casting and music.

Level 6- +2 Wisdom while not shifting, because let's face it: you picked the +2 Wis trait.

...and that's about it, really.  Shifter Druids have sub-levels that give up most of the typical Druid boons in order to really focus on summoning and spellcasting, and you really can get some ridiculous summons out there if you play your cards right.

Of course, if you decide to, instead, enter with Spirit Shaman... oh boy...