Author Topic: How to be Undetectable?  (Read 4462 times)

Offline Eviltedzies

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How to be Undetectable?
« on: May 31, 2013, 01:40:42 AM »
Shadow Template [Lords of Madness] = Negates the need for Hide Checks
Incorporeal [Various Sources] = Negates the need for Move Silently Checks
Darkstalkers [Lords of Madness] = Forces foes to use Spot/Listen to sense you instead of using things like scent, blindsense, ect....
Undead Type [Various Sources] = Immune to Lifesense. (Also lets you take it too.)
Hellbreaker lvl 1 [Fiendish Codex 2] = Immune to Mindsight (RAW)
Vecna Blooded [MM5] = Immune to divination spells and effects.

So if if I was a Shadow creature who became a Ghost and took at least 1 level of Hellbreaker and took the Darkstalker's feat would that make me effectively immune to any form of detection so long as I kept up the Shadow Blend ability and stayed incorporeal?

Offline linklord231

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 02:02:58 AM »
The Telepathic Static ability would only block the Mindsight of creatures within 20' of you.  If they're farther away than that, they can see your mind. 
Shadow Blend only works in less than full daylight, so you should probably get some way to constantly be in darkness - I know there's some item or ability that does this, but I can't remember what it is. 
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 08:25:16 AM »
Touchsight.  That is all.
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Offline Eviltedzies

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 08:43:57 AM »
Quote
The Telepathic Static ability would only block the Mindsight of creatures within 20' of you.
By the wording of the ability it negates telepathy within 20ft. You use telepathy to sense with Mindsight. A fairly solid argument could be made that when trying to sense you with mindsight  while you are "within the area of no telepathy" that it would not work.

Quote
Touchsight.
Since this requires line of effect, all we need do is be 5ft within in object and use some alternative form of viewing, be it X-Ray Vision specs, scrying, or whatnot.

Offline Kasz

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013, 09:11:53 AM »
You need to pass without trace. Otherwise you can still be tracked.

Gwaeron's Boots from the magic item compendium for 6000 gold gets you continuous pass without trace and complete immunity to scent. (page 109)


Offline sirpercival

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013, 09:59:59 AM »
Touchsight.  That is all.
Incorporeal should negate that.
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Offline Kasz

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 10:50:25 AM »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 11:00:46 AM »
I am the assassin of productivity

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It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013, 11:28:43 AM »
Touchsight.  That is all.
Incorporeal should negate that.

Incorporeal does not state that the creature cannot be touched or felt by others, so Touchsight will still detect them, so long as there is line of effect.
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 11:49:17 AM »
Touchsight.  That is all.
Incorporeal should negate that.

Incorporeal does not state that the creature cannot be touched or felt by others, so Touchsight will still detect them, so long as there is line of effect.
Ugh, that's dumb.
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Offline Kasz

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 12:00:36 PM »
Touchsight.  That is all.
Incorporeal should negate that.

Incorporeal does not state that the creature cannot be touched or felt by others, so Touchsight will still detect them, so long as there is line of effect.

RAW maybe... but considering they have a 50% chance to avoid touch attacks... which is essentially touching... do they have a 50% to avoid touchsight?

Technically incorporeal creatures: "It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms." So psionics =/= magic and doesn't work against it.

Offline linklord231

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 12:58:47 PM »
Quote
The Telepathic Static ability would only block the Mindsight of creatures within 20' of you.
By the wording of the ability it negates telepathy within 20ft. You use telepathy to sense with Mindsight. A fairly solid argument could be made that when trying to sense you with mindsight  while you are "within the area of no telepathy" that it would not work.

Telepathic Static doesn't negate telepathy within 20ft.  It negates the Telepathy of creatures within 20ft.  If you're within 20' of a creature with Mindsight, their telepathy (and probably thus Mindsight) is negated.  If you're not, Mindsight can still detect you.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 12:59:33 PM »
Immunity to mind-affecting should protect your from mindsight.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 01:11:57 PM »
Immunity to mind-affecting should protect your from mindsight.

I agree that fluff-wise it should, but I don't see any reason to believe that Mindsight or Telepathy are blocked by Mind Blank by RAW. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Eviltedzies

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Re: How to be Undetectable?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 01:52:06 PM »
Darkstalkers negates the ability for monster to use Scent against you.

Quote
Telepathic Static doesn't negate telepathy within 20ft.  It negates the Telepathy of creatures within 20ft.  If you're within 20' of a creature with Mindsight, their telepathy (and probably thus Mindsight) is negated.  If you're not, Mindsight can still detect you.

Once again, it is a fairly solid argument for it protecting against mindsight, but if if we're going to debate the issue I'll just take the (RAI) fluff that says Undead are immune to Mindsight and call it a day. Then there is the argument that Darkstalkers could also negate Mindsight. :D Either way, it is up to DM digression regarding the ruling. :D

If any of the above are issue: Telepathy Block  :P

Telepathy is not a mind effecting ability since undead can also possess it and use it on one another. So Mind Blank would probably not work on it.