Author Topic: Party member problems... (Read 9752 times)

daekken · « **on:** June 17, 2013, 08:25:31 AM »

Hello again all! Having an issue with an overzealous party member at the moment. The guy's playing a Telepath Psion who feels the need to attempt to override other player characters at nearly every junction... Barring a complete unified party-wide beat down of the guy for using his powers on his "friends"... what other ways do you all suggest we "fix" this issue...

He's already mind-controlled and forced the party smith to make items against his will, and on other various occasions, when the party or an individual has made a decision he doesnt agree with, it's not below him to mind-control whomever to get what he wants... mind you he's supposedly good aligned as well... so again... any suggestions/ideas on how to deal with this pain in the butt would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Raineh Daze · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:28:32 AM »

Talk to him OOC and see if the player realises he's being a dick? If yes, and he's playing to win at any cost, I'd go for 'stop playing with them'. :|

daekken · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:34:34 AM »

I can answer that one real quick... yes the player knows he's being a dick... he's a narcissist ... he's been a problem in games past.. however, he's also been a friend for a very long time to everyone in the group. Everyone knows this guy does this stuff, and we've stopped playing in the past because of it... but for some reason he keeps getting invited back to play because half the group is too worried about feelings getting hurt. It's almost to the point though that a situation of "you use your powers on me, i'll use mine on you..." and i'm an unarmed swordsage that could drop him in about a round... I'm just really not wanting it to get to that point.

**Edit: Sad to say its going to be like this... either play the game w/ him and deal w/ his character, or not have a game to play in. Kicking him out will not be an option, as none of the other people in the group have the balls to stand up to him OOC ... not even the DM sadly..

Raineh Daze · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:37:54 AM »

When someone's messing with other people's fun knowingly and intentionally, it's past the point where you should be worried about hurting their feelings.

Only other thing I can think of IC is an extremely high CL Geas/Quest. Divine Intervention?

daekken · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:42:47 AM »

Yeah... the Geas was something I was looking at honestly... would be somewhat problematic though finding someone high enough to put a Geas on him like that though

Raineh Daze · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:46:49 AM »

Well... if he's mind-controlled a paladin or cleric, could see if you could get divine intervention for that. >.>

daekken · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2013, 08:53:57 AM »

That's the one thing he hasn't done yet... he's been smart enough to avoid messing w/ anyone except melee types for the fear he'd make someone mad in higher places...

The DM's in game character is a gnome cloistered cleric... so he's been avoiding angering the clergy and whatnot... he knows if he crosses that line he's screwed, so he keeps it light w/ controlling the other members of the party who he knows won't say anything even if what he does makes them mad.

Oh, forgot also... his excuse for doing all of this is that he doesnt know he's a psion... he just thinks hes "really charismatic"...

Soft Insanity · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2013, 10:25:18 AM »

I just had a very similar problem in a swse game where the gm was using extremely high level npcs to mind trick us into a very linear path.

There's no need to meta anything here. Eventually you're gonna roll a 20 on a save and know that he is trying to control you. Then hit the area with psychic turmoil and see how long it takes him to realize he's a psion. (I should mention that in SWSE, unfortunately, you don't roll saves and mind trick doesn't fail since it's based on a skill check. Had to leave the game entirely)

Best advice is to save up for things to boost your save or give you immunity to mind affecting entirely.

Jackinthegreen · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2013, 10:29:15 AM »

He thinks he's "charismatic"? He's a douchebag is what he is. Bit of a shame no one else has the balls to tell him to shape up or ship out.

Stuff like this is why it's usually recommended that the DM say up front before character generation "I will not tolerate any PVP."

Maybe have the DM say his character is no longer Good because of the crap going on? That might get the guy's attention. If he keeps it up maybe even turn the character evil and become an NPC, then make the guy roll a new character that won't be able to screw up other party members that way, or in any other way.

You're worried about hurting his feelings? Keep in mind that he's hurting all yours. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

kitep · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2013, 10:37:47 AM »

I'm with Insanity - get something to make party members immune to mind control.

But then, he'll just find some other way to mess with the party, but maybe you'll get a few good sessions in.

Also - if this was magic, then a spellcraft roll would notice that it's magic, not charisma. Are you playing with the magic/psionic transparency?

Good luck!

Unbeliever · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2013, 11:03:57 AM »

I'm a little confused. First, the OOC suggestions are the right ones. Dickery is not to be tolerated. It sounds like you're a player and not the DM, and though that distinction doesn't make much of a difference to me and the tables I'm in, it might at yours. You should mention it to your DM, and also point out that if he's going to mind whammy you then you using whatever powers at your disposal against him has got to be fair game.

Second, do you not know that he's mind whammying you? This is a grey area in D&D sometimes, but I'm pretty sure you do know if you make the save. And, it wouldn't take long for anyone with a Wisdom greater than a toadstool to notice the weird behaviors of the party.

You're a Swordsage, take a Diamond Mind maneuver to harden your mind against intrusions. Make the save with it. Refresh it, and then inform him that if you ever see him to the business end of your Way of the Gentle Boot to the Head. If he gives you some nonsense about how he's not "doing anything" launch into an appropriately Jedi-like speech about power, responsibility. Or, point out that if he can't control his powers then he should retire far from humans, lest he become just the sort of monster that you and the party destroy.

Odds are, b/c dickery is involved, this will not fix the problems. But, you will get some reasonably entertaining RP in and be putting the player, DM, and other players on notice that you will be taking your own d20 driven actions in response.

P.S.: Sense Motive, Spell/Psi-Craft, and a cheap magic item that detects auras/supernatural effects might all be worthwhile investments so you have an excuse to detect his mental intrusions.

P.P.S.: there's even an outside chance that the confrontation would be a worthwhile scene. He's saying that he's just crazy charismatic, and the wise Swordsage, who has honed his skills through diligent efforts, points out that even the handsomest and most persuasive people don't get others to [insert psychic effect]. And, what difference would it make if they did. Your fists are "natural," and query what isn't in a D&D world, that doesn't make it ok to subjugate people.

daekken · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2013, 01:10:05 PM »

Thanks all for the great replies... I agree the OOC suggestions are the right course of action, and will attempt to "fix" the situation this way. As for not knowing he's "whammying" us... he's not had the gumption to attempt it on me yet.. my will save is too high for him at the moment and he knows it. He's stuck primarily to the low will save fighters and barbarian of the party.

Kitep: yes, this is a psionics=magic type campaign... so I guess i'll have to bump up my spellcraft. Thanks

Demelain · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2013, 01:24:28 PM »

If OOC doesn't work, my vote is to always side with the dissenting opinion. Whatever your Barbarian/Fighter want to do, you should vote for that. It forces him to go along with it or to attempt to mind control you. Between your good Will save and the Diamond Mind maneuvers, you should have no problem resisting - and as soon as you do, you know IC that he's mind-controlling the party. Your character at that point can inform him to stop. If he persists, keep warning him. If he does it as frequently as you imply, it shouldn't be long before you can just murder-death-kill him.

Maybe bring up that mind control is an evil act, as well. Ignorance is not an excuse in D&D - evil is evil, whether you know you're evil or not.

daekken · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2013, 01:30:18 PM »

Yes Demelain... it is an evil act... he's also planing on going into Mindbender prc i believe.... so it will only get worse if it's not dealth with early...

Demelain · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2013, 01:39:42 PM »

Ah, one more thing comes to mind. As mentioned here, a continuous item of Protection from Evil costs 4000 gold, and would totally shut down his attempts. Cheap enough for every party member to buy one, and it's a useful item against other enemies to boot.

RobbyPants · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »

Quote from: daekken on June 17, 2013, 08:34:34 AM

I can answer that one real quick... yes the player knows he's being a dick... he's a narcissist ... he's been a problem in games past.. however, he's also been a friend for a very long time to everyone in the group. Everyone knows this guy does this stuff, and we've stopped playing in the past because of it... but for some reason he keeps getting invited back to play because half the group is too worried about feelings getting hurt. It's almost to the point though that a situation of "you use your powers on me, i'll use mine on you..." and i'm an unarmed swordsage that could drop him in about a round... I'm just really not wanting it to get to that point.

**Edit: Sad to say its going to be like this... either play the game w/ him and deal w/ his character, or not have a game to play in. Kicking him out will not be an option, as none of the other people in the group have the balls to stand up to him OOC ... not even the DM sadly..

So, here are your options:

Talk to him OOC and ask him to stop. Sadly, you said this won't work because he's a narcissist.

Kick him out of the group. You said no one has the balls to do it. Either find some balls or put up with it.

Have the PCs kick him out of the group/kill his PC once they find out what he's doing. This is a good in game solution, but not only is it likely to not fix the actual problem (player is a dick), it's likely to make the problem worse in the future.

You leave the group. Not that any of this is your fault, but if you stop playing with him, you get the simultaneous benefits of not having to play with a narcissist and not having to confront him.

In all seriousness, any winning move here is to address the situation OOC, period. You won't solve the problem by getting into an arms race with him in game. I'm confused as to how he can consistently be such a terrible person in-game, yet be such a great life-long friend for everyone outside of the game. The only people I've played with that were terrible in the game were also pretty terrible outside of it. I have hence distanced myself from each and every one of them, and my life is better for it.

Concerned Ninja Citizen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2013, 02:23:57 PM »

What is the DM doing while all this is going down?

That's kind of a key consideration if you're going to approach this OOC (and I agree that OOC is the only way to solve this. Any IC response will only confirm for the asshole that his behavior is acceptable and even if you pull his teeth this time he'll just regroup and do the same thing in a different way.)

Honestly, it worries me that the DM didn't instantly say "Whoa, dude. No you will not, in fact, be mind controlling your party mates in my game." the first time this came up. If he is ok with PVP that has not been previously discussed and accepted by every player then he is both a bad DM and unlikely to back you up in any effort to make the asshole stop being an asshole.

This quote also rings alarm bells:

Quote from: daekken on June 17, 2013, 08:53:57 AM

The DM's in game character is a gnome cloistered cleric... so he's been avoiding angering the clergy and whatnot... he knows if he crosses that line he's screwed

Leaving the DMPC issue aside, this kinda implies that the DM is fine with the asshole being an asshole as long as he stays away from the DM's own character.

Which, if true, yeah. Bad DM and unlikely to be any help. I'd be strongly inclined to go with "find a group that isn't stupid" and, if that's not something you want to do, you may have to resign yourself to dealing with this sort of shit as the price of playing in this group. Get yourself a continuous item of protection from evil (or whatever alignment floats your boat) and keep an eye out for the next stupid asshole trick.

daekken · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2013, 02:57:15 PM »

Robbypants:
Talking to him has worked briefly in the past, however, after a week or two he slips back into his comfortable role of being an absolute dick and its as if nothing has changed.

Again... sadly, no one else in the group has had the balls to deal with him except me... the rest of them are content to cry and moan about him, but when the time comes to do something about it, I'm the lone jerk who has a problem. We have stopped playing soley because of him on (if I remember correctly) 5 separate occasions (which are the only times we have stopped playing..) He's even been kicked out of two other groups for the same crap he pulls in our group (pulling b.s. moves on the players and coming up with ridiculous house rules and systems that are already covered under core rulesets.. etc..) You would think he got the hint... but it was never his fault...

I'm stopping, because it's turning into a rant of why I cant stand playing with this guy, but at the same time, this is my only option to play D&D with my friends... I just have to put up with one bad players crap to do it... sorry for the vent..

Concerned Ninja Citizen:
The DM and all the other players for that matter... ignore the crap that goes on until the session is over for the evening. Then, they cry and moan about it... but when the next session starts, mum's the word about anything that happened.... for the record, I'm nearly 30, and my friends are all around the same age... but they act 12 in this aspect and it drives me nuts.

______________

Guess I posted this with the hopes that someone would have a way to deal with this in game as OOC has no effect on this guy. Thanks for all the responses

Concerned Ninja Citizen · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2013, 03:09:56 PM »

So every player agrees that they want this to stop. The DM is completely aware of what's going on, how the other players feel about it, and agrees with them, but is unwilling to, y'know, be the DM and tell the asshole to stop?

Talk to the DM privately. Get him to announce prior to the next session that PVP is banned. If the asshole has a problem with that, the DM should say this:

"D&D is about having fun and it needs to be fun for everyone. PVP is only fun if everyone is ok with it, so let's put it to a vote."

Then you vote, and PVP is now banned.

If the asshole continues to try to mind control people, just ignore it. The DM should say something like "That doesn't happen. You don't spend any PP, no one has to save, because it doesn't happen. Moving on." Say that every time until he gets the message (after the first time or two, shorten it to "Doesn't happen, moving on.")

TL;DR of the above, the group is united in their opinion that the asshole should stop being an asshole, so you just have to get them to express this consistently. Tell them exactly what to say and do if it helps.

daekken · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2013, 03:29:48 PM »

Sound advice ninja cit.... I'll try this all again OOC, we've just been through this time and time again with no lasting solution. I have done as you said, speaking to the other players about what to say/do when the time comes to hash things out. It just always ends up with them ignoring the problem that lies in front of them because the problem player is someone we've all known since high-school and they're all too worried about someone getting butt-hurt over the entire situation .... Thanks again all for your advice though

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Author Topic: Party member problems... (Read 9752 times)