Goofy Theme Optimization: "My creation LIIIIVES!!"

[sirpercival]

OK, so first things first. This ubermount build is not intended to ever see play, it's just for fun.

Assumptions: (please don't argue with these)
~Precocious Apprentice works for early entry.
~Fractional BAB
~Bloodlines advance effective class level for mount/familiar/companion

The Build
Human or Strongheart Halfling, Major Celestial Bloodline

1st	Wizard 1	Precocious Apprentice, Skill Fous (Handle Animal), Mounted Combat {flaw}, Trample {flaw}, Familiar
2nd	Druid 1	Animal companion
3rd	Druid 2	Theurgic Bond, bloodline level 1
4th	Druid 3	Trackless Step
5th	Druid 4
6th	Ranger 1	Track, Devoted Tracker, bloodline level 2, Smite Evil
7th	Druid 5
8th	Ranger 2	TWF
9th	Ranger Knight of Furyondy 1	Special mount, retrain Theurgic Companion to apply to mount, Holy Mount
10th	Arcane Heirophant 1	Companion Familiar
11th	Arcane Heirophant 2
12th	Arcane Heirophant 3	Theurgic Mount, bloodline level 3
13th	Arcane Heirophant 4
14th	Arcane Heirophant 5
15th	Arcane Heirophant 6	Dragon Cohort
16th	Arcane Heirophant 7
17th	Arcane Heirophant 8
18th	Arcane Heirophant 9	Free
19th	Arcane Heirophant 10
20th	Beastmaster 1

OK, so some calculations.

Familiar: Wiz 1 + Druid 5 (theurgic companion) + Ranger 1 (theurgic companion) + Beastmaster 4 (theurgic companion) + Arcane Heirophant 10 + Bloodline 3 = 24
Animal Companion: Druid 5 + Ranger 1 + Beastmaster 4 + Arcane Heirophant 10 + Wiz 1 (theurgic companion) + Bloodline 3 = 24
Holy Mount: Ranger Knight 6 + Druid 5 (holy mount) + Arcane Heirophant 10 (holy mount) + bloodline 3 = 24
Dragon: Juvenile Copper, gains full Mount benefits.

We have a juvenile copper dragon mount, which gains benefits as a 24th-level AC, a 24th-level familiar, and a 24th-level mount.  It has +24 HD, Str +12, Dex +8, +38 nat armor, Int 17.

So, a couple questions.
(a) Does the dragon go up in age category from the bonus HD? Are ALL bonus HD dragon dice, or just the 4 from the special mount (with I guess the rest being animal?)?
(b) Is there any way to combine a psicrystal with a familiar, mount, or animal companion? Are there any other kinds of things we can tack on?

[sirpercival]

Edited slightly: changed Dragon Steed to Dragon Cohort, because better mount benefits. Because of this, I also changed Young Gold to Juvenile Copper, which actually gets better spellcasting (slightly).

Dragon Rider (Dragonlance CS) seems to imply that all HD boosts are dragon d12s, which is nice. That PrC would allow us (with the addition of Improved Cohort) to acquire a Young Adult Copper, but I'm not sure I can handle the feat reqs for entry.

Anyone have any idea about the psicrystal thing?

[phaedrusxy]

You could certainly use Fusion to temporarily combine your psicrystal with your "mount". You'd need to first change one of their types via Polymorph or the like, though, but then the combined being would get all the benefits of being a psicrystal (flight, telepathy, hardness, etc).

[sirpercival]

You could certainly use Fusion to temporarily combine your psicrystal with your "mount". You'd need to first change one of their types via Polymorph or the like, though, but then the combined being would get all the benefits of being a psicrystal (flight, telepathy, hardness, etc).

Wouldn't get any of those things unless I can find a way to stack effective levels for the psicrystal. If it was based on ML, then I could just be a kalashtar, but it's based on "levels in psionic classes".

EDIT: BTW, it's worth pointing out that this build also has 18th-level wild shaping, 15th-level Druid casting (with CL 18), 11th-level Wizard casting (with CL 14), and if you take Druidic Theurgy or whatever it's called with that 18th-level feat, you can combine CLs to 32 for spells which are on both lists.

[Prime32]

Replace Human with Strongheart Halfling so that you can actually ride a Medium dragon.

Gloves of the Balanced Hand and Battle Bridle can help free up some feats.

Theurgic Companion should be Theurgic Bond.

Also Arcane Heirophant grants you a familiar from arcane spellcaster levels if you don't already have one, meaning you can trade it out for some ACF, or replace the wizard level with something like bard. If you use fey bard you get an extra level of companion advancement, in case you end up losing one at some point.

[sirpercival]

Replace Human with Strongheart Halfling so that you can actually ride a Medium dragon.

Unnecessary... you can just WS into a monkey or whatever.

Gloves of the Balanced Hand and Battle Bridle can help free up some feats.

Not convinced about Battle Bridle, since I need Mounted Combat to qualify for a bunch of stuff at 1st level... though I guess when I can afford the Bridle I can just retrain the feat...

Gloves of the Balanced Hand actually obviate an entire level of Ranger. I'd forgotten those... what should I replace that level with? Halfling Outrider is unnecessary if it's a divine spellcasting & animal companion-advancing class.

Theurgic Companion should be Theurgic Bond.

Thanks, fixed.

Also Arcane Heirophant grants you a familiar from arcane spellcaster levels if you don't already have one, meaning you can trade it out for some ACF, or replace the wizard level with something like bard. If you use fey bard you get an extra level of companion advancement, in case you end up losing one at some point.

Hm.... what about that Wizard ACF that gives you a 1/2-advancing animal companion? Where's the Fey Bard from?

[zook1shoe]

when i was playing around with this idea, it seems like a primary animal companion, secondary special mount, and tertiary familiar build has the most potential.

there are more classes/PrCs that gain/advance animal companions, so advancing them is a priority. then using some of the theurgy feats/CFs combine all those animal companion advancement into a single Companion Familiar Mount.

familiar is the least helpful of the buddy advancers, since it doesn't help w the HD production.

mine was ~330 HD bonus (if bloodlines stack for CF advancement, based on one interpretation)

then throw in Dragon Cohort and Dragon Rider for a much higher cohort buddy

[sirpercival]

when i was playing around with this idea, it seems like a primary animal companion, secondary special mount, and tertiary familiar build has the most potential.

there are more classes/PrCs that gain/advance animal companions, so advancing them is a priority. then using some of the theurgy feats/CFs combine all those animal companion advancement into a single Companion Familiar Mount.

familiar is the least helpful of the buddy advancers, since it doesn't help w the HD production.

mine was ~330 HD bonus (if bloodlines stack for CF advancement, based on one interpretation)

I was going with the less controversial bloodline interpretation (and the one most likely, IMO) that bloodlines don't add to every class, just the total effective.

[zook1shoe]

in this interpretation, it advances only level-based class features that it already has (same as spellcasting would)

[JaronK]

It's a shame the FAQ nerfed this specifically.

Anyway, consider making use of Divine Variant Fey Variant Bard (UA, Bard with a Druid Animal Companion that's a divine caster), PrC Paladin of Freedom (grants a boosted mount), PrC Ranger (Grants an Animal Companion at Druid Speeds) and Halfling Outrider (adds to Druid, Ranger, and Paladin mounts all together).  All that with Holy Mount can be quite handy.

JaronK

[sirpercival]

It's a shame the FAQ nerfed this specifically.

Which part? Or do you mean zook's interpretation of bloodlines?

Anyway, consider making use of Divine Variant Fey Variant Bard (UA, Bard with a Druid Animal Companion that's a divine caster), PrC Paladin of Freedom (grants a boosted mount), PrC Ranger (Grants an Animal Companion at Druid Speeds) and Halfling Outrider (adds to Druid, Ranger, and Paladin mounts all together).  All that with Holy Mount can be quite handy.

JaronK

The divine bard doesn't get me into Arcane Heirophant, sadly... I know familiar isn't as optimized as just hardcore boosting mount & AC, but that's just a regular ubermount build which I wasn't really going for.

I found the fey bard (thank you!), which would probably be a good replacement for the extra Ranger level, except that if I was actually going to put bard into this build I'd want to keep inspire courage.  Hm.

Anyone have any inclinations for the first part of question (a)? Do the extra hit dice boost the dragon's age category?

I'm going to work on a version of this using Dragon Rider, see if it turns out even better.

[zook1shoe]

It's a shame the FAQ nerfed this specifically.

do you have a link?

i did fey prestige bard for mine

[Prime32]

Replace the Wizard level with a Fey Bard level, and one Druid level with a Dragon Rider level.

This gives you the same bonuses as before, and +4 HD/+4 natural armor/+2 Str. Assuming you can fit the feats in.
EDIT: Technically your special mount level would drop from 24 to 23, but special mounts only gain bonuses every 5 levels after 20th anyway.

[sirpercival]

You mean Ranger -> Dragon rider?

[Prime32]

Druid is more efficient unless I'm missing something, since dropping ranger costs you a Combat Style feat and makes it harder to meet prereqs. True you won't get wild shape, but you don't really need it.

[sirpercival]

Druid is more efficient unless I'm missing something, since dropping ranger costs you a Combat Style feat and makes it harder to meet prereqs. True you won't get wild shape, but you don't really need it.

I don't need the combat style feat, since I can get it from Gloves of the Balanced Hand. Wild shape >> gp.

[zook1shoe]

U only need one level of Prestige Ranger for a full progression Animal Companion

[sirpercival]

U only need one level of Prestige Ranger for a full progression Animal Companion

Feat taxes. Who cares about Endurance? Also, it doesn't give level+3, just level.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

What about lesser duergar (la+0) and obtain familiar?

[sirpercival]

What about lesser duergar (la+0) and obtain familiar?

Obtain familiar isn't caster level, it's "levels in classes that can cast spells".