Things Players Aren't Actually Much Good At

[Senevri]

Players... tend to act dumb. There are few who are savvy and play the game side of things well.
Then there are those who barely know what their characters can do. Those who think they're invincible, regardless of any actual facts. So forth.

So, when thinking of my gaming group,
I found there are things the players just, aren't really good at doing.

Here's some things that came to mind immediately.

1. Thinking of the consequences of their actions
2. Buying ranged weapons
3. Buying a backup weapon
4. Keeping their wizard away from melee.
5. Retreating when facing an obviously overwhelming opponent.

More?

[Jackinthegreen]

I've sometimes found players just suck at math despite having a calculator at hand since they can get brain farts and not know exactly what's on the character sheet and what mods apply where, etc.  The last tabletop I played was supposedly "high-powered" but the barbarian of the group didn't even take Power Attack because "It was too much math."  And then the DM was like "WTF?" when my cleric cast Control Wind to get around a bunch of fog that so happened to be in the arena we were fighting in.  Yeah, definitely not going to play with those people again if they can't get their crap together.

One of the worst I've heard lately though was a DM who let a psychic warrior stack +5 full plate, +8 bracers of armor, mage armor, and fully pumped Inertial Armor and then thought it was OP that the character had 50+ AC.  Newsflash: None of those stack because they're all an armor bonus!  It'll be interesting to see the guy's reaction.

So yeah, people generally being lazy and/or not knowing the rules.  Or getting too attached to some idea they thought was awesome but could be easily taken care of with a 4th level spell.

[Raineh Daze]

6. Spotting an obviously overwhelming opponent?

[ketaro]

Um, a couple of my group just give up the moment they screw up in the midst of a battle and just go right to assuming they're dead now, not even caring to think of a way to some how survive or even fix the situation they just messed up on now that they've resigned themselves to dying.

Um, this became a really long rant and I didn't even realize until I was done...

(click to show/hide)

It really kills the mood for me as a DM, despite how obvious the solution was in that the guy literally had the solution sitting in his character's hands for like over a minute of combat. Dood is stuck in a room filled to the brim with enemies and he got cut off from his party by more of the enemies. So long as he does nothing they literally cannot find him due to shadow template and massive hide bonus cheese and he walked into the room with many fistfuls of grenades with the express intent to blow up everything in the room. He coulda done it from the hallway that led into the room, hiding just tossing them in around the corner thus being totally safe from the blast, but instead he spends several rounds hanging out at the corner and then when nothing happens he enters the room despite already knowing that it was FILLED TO THE BRIM with enemies. The combat was thus extended over 4 hours of play that could have been avoided but nooooooo grenades are tooooo expensive he doesn't want to use them all just like that even though they HAVE to kill these things. Completely disregarding the fact that I've been giving them much more than WBL so far and they are fairly low level so that means a lot.

Doesn't help that the guy has a really short fuse and I didn't want to make the whole thing even worse for everyone by saying something that would go by fine with the rest of the group but would have angered him immediately because he thinks I'm telling him what he is suppose to do and retorting with 'well I'm not good at coming up with clever solutions' WHAT IS CLEVER ABOUT A ROOM FULL OF WEAK ENEMIES AND YOU WIELDING A LARGE HANDFUL OF GRENADES THAT YOU EXPLICITLY SAID YOU WERE GOING TO USE TO KILL EVERYTHING IN THAT ROOM. 

[Roxoff]

1. Thinking of the consequences of their actions

But every good PC knows... consequences don't follow actions.  Consequences are thrust upon you by the DM, and have nothing to do with the stupid thing you just did.

My lot aren't very good at picking up story markers and  have the ability to just walk straight past blatant clues.  Sometimes they don't even remember why they're in the middle of the adventure they're in...

[kitep]

Mine suck at bribing the DM 

[Nunkuruji]

1. The problem is that sense motive to determine CR category (overwhelming, etc.) is shitty action economy

4. Sometimes there isn't much choice in a cramped dungeon, at best they might have a corner for cover

[daekken]

In response to #4 - Keeping your wizard out of melee..
My friend had a major brain fart when playing his wizard one time and attempted to cast a spell (cant remember which) that required a touch attack against the Gelatinous Cube....

[Chrononaut]

Add 'figuring out what motivations NPCs have' to that list.

Beyond 'kill you because I'm evil'/'unquestioningly support you because I'm good'. Has resulted in more than a few 'wtf is he/she doing THAT for?' moments when NPCs dared to defy what was in the PC's interest.

[veekie]

Knowing their limits.
There is an often unspoken assumption/agreement that any challenge presented is within their capabilities, that they have a CHANCE they can take it. Whether this chance is slim, or hinges upon something other than brute force doesn't seem to matter much. They'd always try brute force.

Knowing their capabilities
Especially true with inexperienced spellcasters and with acquired loot. Players just don't always know what they can do, even if it seems glaring obvious from the other side of the screen or in hindsight. They may have a perfect solution but just plain don't get it.

Paranoia
In both senses, reading too much into a scenario, overpreparing...and then missing the incredibly obvious brick to the face. There is a certain level of implicit trust in exposition as well, something really exploitable, but also a bad idea to exploit(it changes things from a PC/NPC trust issue to a GM trust issue).

[Senevri]

Oh, yes. Not knowing their characters abilities... definitely a thing.
"What do you mean, a bonus vs. Giants?"
"I can do WHAT as a swift action?" (See: Inexperienced initiators)

[wotmaniac]

on a tangentially related note: this is reminding me of 11 ways to be a better roleplayer

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Um, a couple of my group just give up the moment they screw up in the midst of a battle and just go right to assuming they're dead now, not even caring to think of a way to some how survive or even fix the situation they just messed up on now that they've resigned themselves to dying.

Um, this became a really long rant and I didn't even realize until I was done...

(click to show/hide)

It really kills the mood for me as a DM, despite how obvious the solution was in that the guy literally had the solution sitting in his character's hands for like over a minute of combat. Dood is stuck in a room filled to the brim with enemies and he got cut off from his party by more of the enemies. So long as he does nothing they literally cannot find him due to shadow template and massive hide bonus cheese and he walked into the room with many fistfuls of grenades with the express intent to blow up everything in the room. He coulda done it from the hallway that led into the room, hiding just tossing them in around the corner thus being totally safe from the blast, but instead he spends several rounds hanging out at the corner and then when nothing happens he enters the room despite already knowing that it was FILLED TO THE BRIM with enemies. The combat was thus extended over 4 hours of play that could have been avoided but nooooooo grenades are tooooo expensive he doesn't want to use them all just like that even though they HAVE to kill these things. Completely disregarding the fact that I've been giving them much more than WBL so far and they are fairly low level so that means a lot.

Doesn't help that the guy has a really short fuse and I didn't want to make the whole thing even worse for everyone by saying something that would go by fine with the rest of the group but would have angered him immediately because he thinks I'm telling him what he is suppose to do and retorting with 'well I'm not good at coming up with clever solutions' WHAT IS CLEVER ABOUT A ROOM FULL OF WEAK ENEMIES AND YOU WIELDING A LARGE HANDFUL OF GRENADES THAT YOU EXPLICITLY SAID YOU WERE GOING TO USE TO KILL EVERYTHING IN THAT ROOM. 

Gosh Im just happy my character survived his suicide explosion...

[Demelain]

My players can be really bad at problem solving.

(click to show/hide)

So, you've got a hallway where the players are crowded, next to a room. Through investigation, the players discover that if any creature with an Int score enters the room, it will begin shooting fire out of the walls. There is a level on the opposite side of the room, which disables this. The players have recently come into the possession of a small clay golem (which I mostly put there in the event that they couldn't figure out another way to pull the level). The party includes a Wizard, a Warlock, a Ranger, and a Barbarian.
The Wizard tells everyone to hold on, and spends forty-five minutes looking through his spell list, asking about the room, asking specifics about the way the trap functions.
After forty-five minutes of deliberation, he looks at the party and ISwearOnMeMum says, "I guess we have to make a break for it."
What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

[veekie]

Simple. Do they know it detects intelligence? Or do they think it just shoots fires at creatures?

[Kasz]

Either way, I'd rather the golem made the "run for it" than a fellow player.

I find players lack initiative, the drive to get out there and make stuff happen. They normally play good guys and they "react" to badguys like bad cartoons.

I play characters who tend to lead the party because I've got stuff I want doing... my immortal body isn't going to craft itself after all.

[Jackinthegreen]

Either way, I'd rather the golem made the "run for it" than a fellow player.

I find players lack initiative, the drive to get out there and make stuff happen. They normally play good guys and they "react" to badguys like bad cartoons.

I play characters who tend to lead the party because I've got stuff I want doing... my immortal body isn't going to craft itself after all.

Yeah, that's kind of where my characters tend to end up.  So far my characters range from "intelligent enough to make detailed plans and enough gumption to do them" on the top end to "I'm bored.  Let's poke something and see what happens!" on the bottom.

[Demelain]

Simple. Do they know it detects intelligence? Or do they think it just shoots fires at creatures?

Yes. When that same Wizard player asked what I meant by "creatures with an int score" (which is info they got through various skill checks) I told him anything that didn't have INT -.

As far as player initiative goes, I have a similar problem in my group. If I'm playing, I move the plot and basically drive.the story. If I'm DMing, I pretty much need to hit them in the face with Bad Guy Doing Bad Things to get them to do anything.

[Keldar]

Did the players know there was a lever there, or had you confused them as well using the wrong word repeatedly?  DMs fucking up in even small ways can make things impossible for players.

[Demelain]

I said lever, that was a typo.

Checks made: Search (Ranger has Trapfinding ACF), Know (Arch&Eng), Spellcraft; Disable Device*
Information given: If a creature with an INT score (any value other than INT -) enters the room, the walls will emit cones of fire (as a CL 3 Burning Hands spell). The trap can be disabled from inside the room using the lever.
*Ranger failed his disable device check

Like I said, the best they could come up with was running as fast as they could to pull the lever.

EDIT: No, not a typo. My FireFox is auto-correcting me? WTF FireFox.

EDIT 2: Disabled auto-correct. Should be fine now.