Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus

[brujon]

So, in a game i'll be playing starting soon, i made the following character:

Yahwhah -> Links to Mythweavers sheet
Male Chaotic Evil Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus Monst. Hum. 2/Barbarian1/Archivist 3, Level 6, Init +4, HP 29/34, Speed 20ft
AC 17, Touch 10, Flat-footed 15, Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +10, Base Attack Bonus 4   
  6 Tentacles +7 (1d4+3, 20)
  Bite +2 (1d6+1, 20)
  Grapple +19 ( ,  )
  Breastplate (+5 Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Natural, -2 Misc)
Abilities Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 18, Cha 8
Condition None

Why Anthropomorphic Octopus?

I wanted a good grappler chassis, and this gives me:

6 tentacle attacks, Improved Grab and Constrict for 2 Monstrous Humanoid HD, which aren't ALL that bad, and NO LA, so effectively a LA+2 "lite" race. Skill bonus aren't bad either. Ability modifiers are also stellar: +2 STR +6 DEX -2 CON +4 WIS -4 CHA. Minus two to CON is bad, but gives a BIG bonus to Wisdom and a penalty to CHA, a dump stat. It also gives me the MONSTROUS HUMANOID type, which i can use to enter the Hexer PrC, from Masters of the Wild.

EDIT: I also took Deformity: Tall, for 5ft of reach with my tentacles, so i can threaten double the area. Il'l eventually get access to Extend Tentacles (2nd level spell), which gives me 5ft more if needed, and when i grow one more size category, it will be 25ft of reach total. Woot.

The Hexer PrC is *only* accessible to Monstrous Humanoid characters, and it gives:

Pros:
- Full divine casting progression, which will let me keep my Archivist goodies. Including Spells Known. NICE!
- Full Bab
- Access to Sorc/Wiz spells as Divine spells: 1 spell every two levels, for a total of 5 spells over 10 class levels. Not too shabby - There aren't many Sorc/Wiz spells that don't appear in some Divine list somewhere where i can get a scroll, but the few there are, are solid gold. This also unhinges the Archivist somewhat of the need to spend so much gold on scrolls, and avoids relying on the DM permitting you to buy the spell you want.
- Hex: As a Standard action, a Gaze attack that, after activation, works on 1 creature/round that is 30ft or closer, forcing a Will save or take -4 to attack, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks. Other hexes are available later, and the best part? The normal and Sicken Hex are PERMANENT, and avoiding them gives them penalties as well. They can only be broken with Break Enchantment, Limited Wish, Miracle, Remove Curse, or Wish. Just like Bestow Curse. Wow. Pretty powerful.

Cons:

-d6 HD
- 3.0 and hard to qualify: AFAIK the only entry is through Archivist, Shugenja or Adept. No other classes can cast Lightning Bolt as divine.

Barbarian 1 was an obvious choice. City Brawler variant from Dragon Magazine, so i lose Martial Weapons and Medium Armor, the latter of which i regain as Archivist, but it gives me Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, which i needed for Improved Grapple, and also Two Weapon Fighting with Unarmed Attacks, which i won't be using since i have more Natural Attacks with better To-Hit and the same damage.

Archivist was needed to qualify for Hexer later, which i think is perfect for the character, while also giving a very, very good chassis. But then again: Babau Slime is not on the Cleric list, and with Archivist i can access that as Divine, which lets me cast it with armor without still spell. At lower levels, this is awesome - 1d8 for free every turn i'm in a grapple. Combined with Balor Nimbus and Constrict, that's a hefty amount of automatic grapple damage.

Let's see: I have Babau Slime, Balor Nimbus and Corrosive Grasp active.

I cast Corrosive Grasp, giving me 6 uses of it's ability, which i quote "You can also deal this damage with an unarmed strike or an attack with a natural weapon". So, going off that reading, i can discharge the full 6d8 of corrosive damage if i hit with all six tentacles. My Spike Stones graft also adds 1d4 damage to each of my natural attacks.

Let's assume i do: 6d4+18 +6d4 + 6d8 (acid) + 1d6+1 +1d4 damage from my full attack. An average of 72 damage with a full attack. Or 48 damage on average even without Corrosive Grasp.

I have also beforehand cast Balor Nimbus and Babau Slime, and i get a free shot of starting a grapple, so i do. With +19 to my check, at my level there aren't many creatures that can compete. And Improved Grab gives me a free grapple with my last tentacle attack:

My Spike Stones graft gives me 2d4 damage on each successful grapple check, Balor Nimbus deals 6d6, and i constrict for 2d6+6 damage. Average of 32 damage on a successful grapple check.

Grand total: 104 damage on a single turn, with a single attack with those buffs, or 62 average unbuffed. Forgot the 1d8 from Babau Slime, so +4 on average buffed damage.

At later levels, my options multiply. Once i get access to Girallon's Blessing and Arms of Plenty, i get 4 more arms, with 4 more additional natural attacks, all of which can be used to discharge Corrosive Grasp and deal the bonus Spike Stones damage. With 4th level spells comes Investiture of the Barbed Devil (if i can get a Blackguard scroll... Otherwise, 6th level). Gives me more on my Grapple check, and additional damage. Righteous Might also becomes an option, giving me increase size category. Not that i needed it much, since Steal Size at level 1 gives me my much needed Size Increase + a debuff against Large opponents (the only ones that would give me grief with grappling.


So, does anyone have any suggestion? Improvements? Comments?

Note: I'm looking for a Medium Armor for my character, i'm stuck with a normal Breastplate and have only 341gp to spare. Thoughts?

And a rules question: with Improved Grab, if i accept the -20 penalty for trying a grapple with only one limb, can i attempt one grapple check PER natural attack i hit? If so, then the damage is possibly INSANE once i get higher levels.

[phaedrusxy]

Aren't a lot of those buffs relatively short in duration? If you had an Incantatrix partner/cohort to persist them, it could help you out tremendously.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

That's a juicy PrC.
Psi Slayer isn't nearly as potent.

[brujon]

Aren't a lot of those buffs relatively short in duration? If you had an Incantatrix partner/cohort to persist them, it could help you out tremendously.

Ya. Corrosive Grasp is Instantaneous, though. In fact, in theory, i could use Spell Flower to, in a couple of days, accumulate one charge of Corrosive Grasp in each tentacle. In theory.

BUT, my damage is very high, even without buffs. Sadly, being an Archivist, i have no Turn Undead, so no DMM: Persist for me. One of the tradeoffs that almost made me scrape the idea. I bought a Lesser Metamagic Rod: Extend, instead. This should, at least, let my buffs last a whole combat, or i can cast them beforehand, or even in the middle of a grapple, after i pin my opponent, thanks to Sudden Still. I can also use it to swap places with an ally, even in the middle of a grapple, once per day.

@ADMG Ya, it's a very powerful PrC indeed. But, VERY hard to qualify for. It's pretty specific, AND it asks for 3.0 only skills. Like i said in the OP, you absolutely must be a Shugenja or an Adept, or an Archivist and get a divine scroll of Lightning Bolt from an adept. I believe Sha'ir might work too, but i'm not very sure, since their casting is very wonky. They don't have spells known, but they can access all arcane and all divine, so in theory they either qualify as having all spells, or don't qualify by knowing none at all. Plus, you have to be a Monstrous Humanoid, or a Hobgoblin, Gnoll or Orc. So, pretty hard, very specific qualification needs. I almost stumbled upon this PrC by accident, after i ALREADY had decided on playing an Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus. Needless to say, i jumped first hand at the opportunity.

[Demelain]

Those five spells - are those spells that appear on the Sor/Wiz inclusive list, or are spells that, for example, appear as Sorcerer only also fair game?
Arcane Spellsurge and its big brother are two of my favorite spells.

[brujon]

Those five spells - are those spells that appear on the Sor/Wiz inclusive list, or are spells that, for example, appear as Sorcerer only also fair game?
Arcane Spellsurge and its big brother are two of my favorite spells.

 I'm AFB right now, but IIRC, it explicitly says Sorc/Wiz spell list. So, not sure. Have to check with DM, but probably not...

[Captnq]

I dunno... Bracers of Striking seems to be  natural fit. Necklace of natural weapons as well.

Seems to me you might want:
TENTACLED HIDE
AC +3/Max Dex +5/ACP -3/ASF 20%/Weight:30/Cost:315
This exotic armor resembles a rubbery suit of hide armor with long, sweeping tentacles attached at the bottom. These tentacles grant a trained wearer a +2 bonus on Strength checks made to trip opponents.

I'm assuming that it'd be thematic and helpful when you go for those trip attacks over the grapples. Seriously, you can grapple and crush like two people and trip two others, giving you time to kill the two you got while the other two waste time trying to stand up and run away.

I'd rather go with tumblers breastplate, myself.

But if you need medium armor,
Mechanus Gear [Githcraft, Mithral, Thistledown] 11,600 gp
AC +10/Max Dex +2/ACP -10/ASF 30%/Weight 75

You got a dex of 14 so it won't matter, it's got the best possible AC and the ACP, not too bad. And it's technically medium armor, not heavy. That's the sweet spot. Then you can enchant the crap out of it. Starver. You SO need starver.

[phaedrusxy]

He only has the starting gold pieces of a level 5 character (9000 gp). So he can't afford mithral mechanus gear.

[Captnq]

I did not realize he was never going to advance in level. My Bad. Stick with the tentacle armor then.

[phaedrusxy]

I did not realize he was never going to advance in level. My Bad. Stick with the tentacle armor then.

Well... it's a PbP, so at least it will be slow. 

[brujon]

Tentacled hide is very flavorful, and useful... But i lose 2 AC, and my AC is already on the extremely low end for my level. I only have 17 AC unbuffed. That's terrible. I only have about 500gp to spare on armor, after having bought my items, if i substitute my breastplate for something else, unless anyone has a suggestion on items to cut (some of the spells come to mind, if there are any suggestions on better spells to replace them it's welcome as well). At the bottom of the character sheet is a list of all the spells that i got from levels (MUST come from Cleric list), and the spells i got from scrolls (Can come from any divine list - inc. domains, etc.). In total, i spent 600gp on 1st level spell scrolls (a total of 12 spells), and 750 on 2nd level spells (total of 5 spells), plus a Lightning Bolt as Adept 3, which i'll promptly learn once i reach Archivist 5, to qualify for Hexer on the next level up.

[Captnq]

Dude.

25 foot reach? Larger then mansized?

(click to show/hide)

- SAVAGE SPECIES (3.0)
Exotic One-Handed Melee Weapon
[Nonlethal]
Cost: 1 gp
Damage (s): 1
Damage (m): 1d2
Critical: x2
Reach: 0 to 15
Weight: 2 lb
Type: S
Some chuul manufacture these lashes to extend the reach of their own paralyzing tentacles. Using a lasher, a chuul can substitute a whip attack for one of its claw attacks. A successful strike with the whip attack does normal whip damage (1d2 points of subdual damage), and forces a Fortitude save against the chuul’s paralysis ability. It has a reach of 15 feet.

Extend the reach of your own tentacles. You'll be doing touch spells out to 40 feet.
Then you add: Large and in Charge
-Draconomicon
"When you make a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent that is moving inside your threatened area, you can force the opponent back to the 5-foot space it was in before it provoked the attack of opportunity. After you hit with your attack of opportunity, make an opposed Strength check against your opponent. You gain a +4 bonus for each size category larger than your opponent you are, and an additional +1 bonus for every 5 points of damage you dealt with your attack of opportunity. If you win the opposed check, your opponent is pushed back 5 feet into the space it just left. An opponent you push cannot move any farther in this round."

Nobody is ever going to get close enough to hit you. Cast windwall and laugh at the ranged attacks. Who cares about AC?

And note, with the armor, there is no limit to how far it goes. You can trip at 5 feet or 40. Between Large and in charge and tripping, your enemies will be standing still. Add in other immobiliation techniques. Caltrops. Marbles. Really cheap. Watch them fumble about like keystone cops. Feast on the brains of your enemies.

Of course, you realize, someone already made this character.

[phaedrusxy]

The smoking weapon enhancement is tremendous for this character. It's basically a mini stinking cloud that occupies your space, giving you a 20% miss chance against all attacks, and causing anyone who shares your space (i.e. you're grappling) to save vs. nausea. It's only a +1, and it's from Lords of Darkness.

Get that plus the X Armor Crystal of Deflection, and I agree with Captnq. You don't really need to worry much about your melee AC (even without Windwall).

[Captnq]

The smoking weapon enhancement is tremendous for this character. It's basically a mini stinking cloud that occupies your space, giving you a 20% miss chance against all attacks, and causing anyone who shares your space (i.e. you're grappling) to save vs. nausea. It's only a +1, and it's from Lords of Darkness.

Get that plus the X Armor Crystal of Deflection, and I agree with Captnq. You don't really need to worry much about your melee AC (even without Windwall).

Oh gods. I completely forgot Smoking. Yes. That would be perfect for a grappling character. And consider duststorm out of sandstorm. Sure, it's a +3 bonus, but it allows you to cast haboob 3 times a day. A Haboob that you are immune to, i might add. 40' wide dust storm granting you 50% concealment against ranged attacks and causing 5d4 points of damage a round to everyone around you.

Or get both.

Layers of swirling sand and green fog with a multi-tentacle horror dwelling within, his long appendages reach out periodically to trip up his enemies as they try to run. From time to time you grab a target and pull him into the swirling maelstrom to the sounds of your victims terrified screechings that are only cut short by the sicking sound of a snapping neck, followed by the soft squishy reverberations of cephalopod beak on flesh.

You... did mention you were Chaotic Evil, right?

[brujon]

Yessss... Very good suggestionssss...



I especially liked Large and in Charge. I'll also read up on the vest and the smoking enhancement - though it will probably have to wait until i get some more GP to spend. Very good ideas throughout. Area of effect spells after grappling is something i have thought about, hence why i took Sudden Still, so i can do spells without somatic components... Not that i would have much problem doing so if i'm only grappling with certain limbs - leaving my other limbs free to do other things. For now, i'm thinking of dropping Improved Natural Attack for Multigrab, and dropping Sudden Still for Greater Multigrab. Then i can do grabs with single limbs at 0 penalty. My tentacles drop from 1d4 to 1d3, but it's not a huge damage loss, and i can still get INA from items later on.

Insane BFC. Gonna need to shuffle my ability scores a bit, though... Need 17 str and 15 dex. But, IMO, it's worth it. Thoughts?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... maybe a Davy Jones from Pirates Of The Caribbean pic?

[brujon]

Made an alternate version of my character.

Gentlemen, i present to you...

Kwah-Yah, Proto-Creature Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus

The character is styled as a Bounty Hunter, Assassin and Mancatcher. Chaotic Neutral, with evil tendencies, he is the man to go for every job you don't want to do yourself. For good or for bad, if the money is right, he's your guy. Not completely right in the head, his screws are a bit loose, and if you say the wrong thing, he'll snap you in two.

Proto-Creature was a perfect fit for the build. Turning the subpar Monstrous Humanoid HD into  d10, full bab, rage progressing, good reflex and will HD made two lost levels into something that was actually worth it. The extra +4 to str made the +2 of the Anthro Octopus into a staggering +6 strength, making for a 22 str start that made it into 23. Completely dumping CHA and the +6 to dex and +4 to wis, made it possible to have good stats all around.

6 Tentacles, each dealing 1d3 + 6, plus 1d4 from Spike Stones. While it might seem the damage is unimpressive, and it really is, it's not the main source of damage...

What really does the trick is the Constrict after every successful grab, made with +20 to the grapple check, or +22 while raging. Multigrab and Improved Multigrab lets me start a grapple with each arm independently, which, combined with Rending Constriction and the bonus damage from Spike Stones and Armor Razors, makes for a scary prospect. Let's analyze...

First attack: 1d3+1d4+6  - Free grapple: 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 Total: 25
Second Attack: 1d3 +1d4+6 Free Grapple 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 + REND: 4d4+9 Total: 42
Third attack: 1d3+1d4+6  - Free grapple: 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 Total: 25
Fourth Attack: 1d3 +1d4+6 Free Grapple 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 + REND: 4d4+9 Total: 42
Fifth Attack: 1d3+1d4+6  - Free grapple: 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 Total: 25
Sixth Attack: 1d3 +1d4+6 Free Grapple 2d4+6 +1d4 + 2d4 + REND: 4d4+9 Total: 42

Grand Total: Average of 201 damage. Or 228 average when raging.

The routine is that i grab with with tentacle, constrict, grab with another tentacle, and constrict and rend, this releases both tentacles. Then i repeat two more times. Each time i rend, it's double constrict + 1.5xSTR. Because i took Extended Reach, i do that with 20ft reach. But the flashy routine is not all the character can do.

His strength is high enough that he can also use the toss option with most opponents, which can be beneficial depending on the terrain.

He's got good Move Silently and Hide ranks, which, combined with a high grapple modifier, makes the Garrote a fearsome weapon in his hands.

Grappling X-Bow for utility, for climbing difficult to access areas. Winch X-Bow for dragging cowardly foes that foolishly try to run away... Not that he really needs to, if he wants, since he's got a high enough Survival and the Track skill, he can just stalk them at leisure. Net for capturing foes, or catching animals for food in the wild. This character has it all. Except a positive charisma score, that is.

I also took CptnQ's suggestion of adding the Smoking property to my armor spikes, so when i drag my opponents to my square through imp. grab and damage them with the armor spikes in the grapple, they all get nauseated. Also happens with the grapple that precedes the garroting.

So, which of the two do you vote as the best? Keep min mind, Leadership is still a feat option at level 9, so that, just maybe, one of the two becomes an option as a cohort later on. Though i suspect grabbing a character focused on something else would be a superior choice.

[Captnq]

Grappling X-Bow for utility, for climbing difficult to access areas. Winch X-Bow for dragging cowardly foes that foolishly try to run away... Not that he really needs to, if he wants, since he's got a high enough Survival and the Track skill, he can just stalk them at leisure. Net for capturing foes, or catching animals for food in the wild. This character has it all. Except a positive charisma score, that is.

I also took CptnQ's suggestion of adding the Smoking property to my armor spikes, so when i drag my opponents to my square through imp. grab and damage them with the armor spikes in the grapple, they all get nauseated. Also happens with the grapple that precedes the garroting.

While I did have Smoking in my handbook for the obvious uses during grappling, the other guy remembered it before me.

I don't know if you can swing it, but look into the grappling crossbow as well as the winch crossbow. Both in the weapon handbook. The reason I point out the grappling crossbow is because it can shoot a 100' of rope up to 1000' yards. Combine that with Animate rope and you got yourself one hell of a ranged grapple attack.

The grapple is a simple weapon with a range of 120', which is weird because it can only shoot 100' of rope. Unless you use the ultra-expensive mithril grapple, then you got 200'. Who the hell have 1,000 gp to blow on a one use grapple? Alas, a Mithril Grapple falls under ammunition use, and is thus "destroyed" upon being fired.

Anyrate, animate the rope, shoot the grapple without worrying if you hold onto the rope, 100' of rope hit your target's square at AC 5, then the rope begins the entangling! Fun for the whole family up to 1200' away. Buy distance and you can hit targets up to a half of a mile away! How you would ever close before the animate rope spell wears off is beyond me, but that's a matter of logistics. I help you grapple people, what you do with them after that isn't my problem.

[linklord231]

I like the second one better 
But keep in mind that Freedom of Movement comes online at level 7, so we could fight someone with that spell prepared in our very first encounter.  Gaseous Form would be similarly bad, and things like Vampires get that for free.  I strongly recommend having a backup plan for things that are immune to grapples, and definitely grab some abilities that let you grapple incorporeal and/or ethereal creatures if you haven't already.

[brujon]

I like the second one better 
But keep in mind that Freedom of Movement comes online at level 7, so we could fight someone with that spell prepared in our very first encounter.  Gaseous Form would be similarly bad, and things like Vampires get that for free.  I strongly recommend having a backup plan for things that are immune to grapples, and definitely grab some abilities that let you grapple incorporeal and/or ethereal creatures if you haven't already.

Yeah, some form of ghost touch is coming sooner rather than later. As for FoM, dispelling just might do the trick. Anyway, even if i don't grapple, i still have pounce, 23 str, rage and a full bab with six natural attacks. That's still some scary damage. Since we got a Wizard craftsman in our group, it might not be so far-fetched that in the future i might be able to acquire some wands with useful abilities later on, like Corrosive Grasp, for increased natural attack damage, as well as the other assortment of buff spells. Plus, phaedrusxy is coming in with a scary effective buff-bard. With that many attacks, all that damage is bound to add up pretty quickly. Also, city-brawler Barbarian lets me wield improvised weapons at just -2 penalty, and those deal damage based on weight. I can just grab a table with all 6 arms and deal 4d6 + 2.5xSTR with every attack (IIRC, each new pair is 0,5x more). If i get a second level of ranger later on and dna1 approves the Fangshields substitution level, i get Multiattack for free, meaning i can do 10 attacks with my 5 off hand arms. There are many branch-off points where i can get out of grappling and into something else. I can drop BBC and go into Dread Commando and focus on lots of attack with Sneak Attack dice.