Author Topic: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus  (Read 14673 times)

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2013, 12:16:34 PM »
I like the second one better  :D
But keep in mind that Freedom of Movement comes online at level 7, so we could fight someone with that spell prepared in our very first encounter.  Gaseous Form would be similarly bad, and things like Vampires get that for free.  I strongly recommend having a backup plan for things that are immune to grapples, and definitely grab some abilities that let you grapple incorporeal and/or ethereal creatures if you haven't already.

He could get greater dispel in a Necklace of Natural Weapons, then he could dispel freedom of movement (and other buffs) on touch. Any way to zap just freedom of movement? Like AMF: One spell/spell-like ability only?
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline brujon

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2554
  • Insufferable Fool
    • View Profile
    • My Blog (in PT-BR)
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2013, 12:54:00 PM »
Alas, a Necklace of Natural Weapons is waaaay beyond my current WBL. And it's actually a really BAD option for someone like me, who has 6 natural attacks. Necklace of Natural Attacks cost exponentially more to affect multiple natural weapons. A necklace of natural attacks to affect 6 weapons with a +1 ability costs more than 16k gp, nearly twice my current allotted WBL. I *may* get the crafter in our group to craft one for me in the future, but it's going to be a while.

For now, the option for FoM is going to be to drop the grapple routine, grab a table and go all Hulk smash. I'll still deal very good damage, though. I just might buy a Huge Greatsword or other comically large weapon some time, though, since i can wield it no-problemo with 6 arms, since each extra pair allows you to wield a weapon one size category larger without penalties. If i get multiattack, i can branch into Dread Commando and be a beast with Sudden Strike damage. Or i can get Multiweapon Fighting from another level of Fighter and do it with weapons instead of natural attacks. I can even buy 6 repeating crossbows and go machine gun style with Rapid Shot if i choose Archery and get a new ranger level.

What i'm saying basically is, grappling is basically done for me. After next level, the only thing i can do to advance my grappling further is get to Black Blood Cultist 8 to get Savage Grapple, but by that time it's lvl 15 and grapple is no longer such a viable strategy. Interesting on the viewpoint of build contests and the like, but really not the optimal strategy for this build. He already does grappling amazingly well, doesn't need another boost. By next level, my grapple is bumping up to +25 due to another point of BAB and Improved Grapple for free, which will let me grapple with anyone smaller than Huge with little to no problems. Burn 3000gp on a Ring of Sizing and i bump that up to +33 and i can grapple up to Gargantuan opponents. If the Wiz in the group gets Girallon's Blessing as a spell known, i could feasibly go to +50, or even further if i also get a Fuse Arms buff. That's not counting the bonus from Inspire Courage from the Bard. Best thing i can do now is branch out to cover my weakness, which is, FoM is going to start to become more and more prevalent when 4th level spells start to become more common, so, i need to be able to deal massive damage without needing to grapple, while leaving grapple as a fall-back strategy whenever i know there is no FoM involved. Like a finisher. If i can eventually get at will AMF, i can always try to bump grappling a bit more, but there's really any need, with the amount of damage possible? There's nothing even near my CR that can survive the full grapple routine when all the attacks connect.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline linklord231

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3352
  • The dice are trying to kill me
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2013, 02:05:55 PM »
I think he meant Amulet of Mighty Fists.  Still too expensive (+1 is 6k), but cheaper than NoNA for us.  And it requires DM allowance to put WSA's on it, but I don't think that will be a problem. 

I may need to up the op-level of my character.  We seem to be trying to fill the same party role, but you have about 5 times my expected damage output  :plot
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2013, 03:49:39 PM »
Isn't there a weapon crystal that lets you ignore the miss chance vs. incorporeals? Or am I crazy?
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline brujon

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2554
  • Insufferable Fool
    • View Profile
    • My Blog (in PT-BR)
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2013, 06:44:59 PM »
Isn't there a weapon crystal that lets you ignore the miss chance vs. incorporeals? Or am I crazy?

I remember seeing something like that, yeah. In any case, i'm going to rebuild all of my characters equipment after re-reading the thread because i've learned you can have more than one attuned item.

CptnQ, please read this and give your input!

We have a houserule in place that makes it so that:

- You don't have body slot limitations. You instead can have up to 8 magical items attuned to your character at a time.

- You gain a free +1 enhancement to a attuned item you had for 6 levels. We can start the game with more than one attuned item.

With that in mind... What's the absolute best +1 WSA you recommend for my grapple build, to be applied to an Amulet of Mighty Fists? I thought about either Last Resort or Dispelling. Also thought about dropping Combat Reflexes, as painful as that might be, and getting Multiweapon Fighting. Then buying 6 weapons i can use, instead of using my tentacles. Like 3 pairs of scorpion claws. +24 to grappling? And i can get a different WSA for each of them. That would cost more than 7000gp, but might be worth it. Or Manoples, for crazy Shield AC shenanigans. Would not work, DM decided on continued attuning, so has to be something i could afford, and i'll only have that kind of money much later on. Sucks.

Still, can choose something to have it attuned next level. Can be amor, shield, or whatever else... Well, i can still buy an Amulet of Natural Attacks with no enchants for 600gp. It's still a magic item...

What do you recommend? As a freebie WSA for one

*Cast Summon CptnQ*
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 07:05:30 PM by brujon »
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Demelain

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2013, 09:18:28 PM »
A necklace of natural attacks to affect 6 weapons with a +1 ability costs more than 16k gp, nearly twice my current allotted WBL. I *may* get the crafter in our group to craft one for me in the future, but it's going to be a while.

Then don't buy a NoNW for six weapons. Buy it for one. The way I read it, you designate how many natural weapons a NoNW affects when it is created - and that's the way that makes sense, because you can't retroactively increase the price just because a monster with more than the original number wore it. Make it so that it only functions with a single tentacle, or however that works (though I figured by # of natural attacks it meant categories such as tentacle - claw - bite - etc. rather than tentacle 1, tentacle 2, etc. but I can see it being read differently).

Designate a dispelling tentacle that the necklace is attuned to, much cheaper.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2013, 10:45:24 AM »
So are you using this version for the game, then? I think you still have the original in the characters thread...
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline brujon

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2554
  • Insufferable Fool
    • View Profile
    • My Blog (in PT-BR)
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2013, 12:41:30 PM »
So are you using this version for the game, then? I think you still have the original in the characters thread...

Yeah, i talked over with dna1 yesterday and i didn't update the sheet and post yet, but i'll get right on it yet today. It's just some equipment shuffling, nothing major, so it should be okay. Also Necklace of Natural Attacks is now houseruled to affect all natural weapons of a given type, so i'm good to go with a +1 for 2600gp, then i can add to it... Probably going for Assassination or Acid effects, not sure which.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2013, 12:48:13 PM »
Oh... you don't get it do you. Just how broken the NoNW is. Here Look at the editor notes on Multiple Weapons. (By the by, you made the handbook! My new Unique Weapons section.)

(click to show/hide)

Now, will your DM reflexively shout, "HELL NO!"? I know I did. But, when I read it and ran the figures, it actually isn't that bad. I mean, compare it to buying multiple magic weapons of the same type, the savings is actually a very small percentage.

CptnQ, please read this and give your input!
*Peers Enigmatically*
We have a houserule in place that makes it so that:
- You don't have body slot limitations. You instead can have up to 8 magical items attuned to your character at a time.
- You gain a free +1 enhancement to an attuned item you had for 6 levels. We can start the game with more than one attuned item.

Again, NoNW. One magic item, a theoretical upward limit of Infinite Different Weapons.

1. Never Buy Amulet of Mighty Fists. Never. Ever. NeverevernevereverNEVEReverNEV-ER! I mean that. I will beat you with an albatross. Even for you with 6 attacks, it still sucks. Ask you party spellcasters to buff you for the EBs.

2. You seem confused about something. Let me clarify. A Weapon has Enhancement Bonuses (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5) and Weapon Enhancement Bonuses. These are two different things. So your AoMF can only enhance your EB, never your WSA.

3. Next should be Bracers of Striking. Here.
(click to show/hide)
I don't think you can use a ward cestus, because that works with unarmed strikes and you are using natural attacks.

Still, can choose something to have it attuned next level. Can be amor, shield, or whatever else... Well, i can still buy an Amulet of Natural Attacks with no enchants for 600gp. It's still a magic item...
What do you recommend? As a freebie WSA for one

Whatever it is, stick it on the bracers of striking. That is by far the most expensive thing to build up.

As for a freebee WSA, go with Smoking. You're a grappler, so grapple. Go with weapon crystals for extra enhancements, like hitting ghosts and crap like that. Unfortunately you can only put one on your necklace, but it counts as a weapon, so don't forget to get your weapon crystal, whatever you settle on.

As for the limit on attuned magic items. NoNW and BoS are your two go to magic items. Armor wise... Arg. I hate releasing before I'm ready. Here's my scratch pad notes on what's coming next for the Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

It's ugly, but everything is in one place. Take a wander through that. I'm sure you'll find something that meets your needs.

After that, It's up to your individual taste and style. I prefer general theory to specific builds.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2013, 12:51:59 PM »
Yeah, i talked over with dna1 yesterday and i didn't update the sheet and post yet, but i'll get right on it yet today. It's just some equipment shuffling, nothing major, so it should be okay. Also Necklace of Natural Attacks is now houseruled to affect all natural weapons of a given type, so i'm good to go with a +1 for 2600gp, then i can add to it... Probably going for Assassination or Acid effects, not sure which.

FIGHT IT!

He's trying to limit the number of weapons you can buy in the NoNWEAPONS (not attacks, btw. Everyone spells it wrong.) Although letting it affect every natural attack is nice as well, I'd still go with 6 different weapons over one weapon usable by every arm. Trust me, I can Min/Max much more effectively with NoNW if I can have 6 +1 WSAs on 6 different arms and all of them "wielded". Put your +1 EBs in your bracers of striking. That affects all natural attacks the same.

Oh, don't forget a weapon crystal for your BoS.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2013, 01:10:22 PM »
In regards to Amulet of Mighty Fists

As was pointed out to me that chances are you are hanging out with a crowd of villians. That being the case, building your PC expecting them to buff you might be suicidal. Since you can attune 8 items and don't have to worry about NoNW or BoS having that wasted +1 EB, and Because you can have two neck slot items, I concede that in your situation maybe, MAYBE you would be better off picking up an AoMF, but that should be a fifth or sixth choice. Maybe eighth.

No, I'm sure it's your eighth choice.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline linklord231

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3352
  • The dice are trying to kill me
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2013, 08:32:48 PM »
How do you figure that Bracers of Striking apply their WSA's to your natural attacks?  It doesn't even say they apply to your unarmed strikes.  All it says it that they can be enchanted as if they were blunt weapons. 
It seems to me like your claim takes quite a leap of logic.
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2013, 08:46:51 PM »
How do you figure that Bracers of Striking apply their WSA's to your natural attacks?  It doesn't even say they apply to your unarmed strikes.  All it says it that they can be enchanted as if they were blunt weapons. 
It seems to me like your claim takes quite a leap of logic.

This is where we run into the problem with all this 3.0 crap. Really, it doesn't clarify anything. BoS give you improved unarmed Strike. They can be enchanted as weapons, but they don't even say they do any damage. It can be modified with WSAs, but it doesn't say you can use them.

Alas, one has to ask the DM. See, if they were TRUE double weapons, I could enchant each bracer seperately, but I'm not allowed to do that. They must be enchanted equally and both raised at the same time. So, do they affect all Unarmed Strikes? Do they affect natural attacks? We don't know. But gosh darn it, you have to spend twice as much for them, they'd better do something.

It's one of those gray areas where you ask the DM and wait to see what he rules. I know how I see them. Double cost NoNW that can't be made into more then one weapon. You need to be 30th level to make a +10 version.

This goes back to my original post, ASK YOUR DM. Explain how you plan on using the item. Don't try to blind side him. You'll both be happier for it.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Extrapolated WSA: Armored
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2013, 08:52:03 PM »
Since you only have so many Magic Item slots, here is a way to squeeze even more into that necklace of natural weapons

(click to show/hide)

Since you are only allowed 8 magic items, here's a way to squeese even more crap onto that NoNW. The Armored WSA comes from the sword of the diplomat that basically makes it cost x2 for Bracers of Armor. Well, Bracers of armor are... ARMOR. So you could buy just the +1 armor for 2,000 gp then use that as a basis to stack Armor Special Abilities on. Far more expensive then a suit of magic armor, but it combines two very useful items into one, plus it gives your armor ghost touch for free.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2013, 10:48:46 PM »
Eh, most armor special abilities stink anyway. I rarely get anything other than Death Ward (the 1xday one) and Fortification, and maybe animated on a shield.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline brujon

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2554
  • Insufferable Fool
    • View Profile
    • My Blog (in PT-BR)
Re: Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2013, 11:14:03 PM »
Not enough money. Ended up not grabbing anything else enchanted other than the Necklace of Natural Attacks. Did get a Gnome Calculus and some goodies to throw with it, though. Also exchanged some proficiencies around, got a Kuo-Toan Harpoon. Thinking of enchanting it with Whirling. Would be hideously effective with Whirling attached to it. Also good for making something follow me, whether they want it or not. Lasso is a nice one for when i don't actually want to hurt them, or can't for some reason.

I just couldn't part with the Spike Stones graft. It's simply too good... 2d4 free damage on every grapple, +1d4 damage on every natural attack. There's nothing for 4000gp i could get that would even compare. And that's because i looked at some Extrapolated WSA's to add on the NoNA. Seriously, it's THAT good.

And CptnQ: The way my character is built, it's better for me to have the NoNA working as it is now. It's not a 20th level build where i have 760,000gp to spare right now, i need something that works out of the box, and getting +1 attack and damage on all tentacles, and a free +1 ability added to all of them in a couple of levels, is much better than the ability to enchant them separately, and paying much more for doing so.

Couldn't part with the Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker, or any of the other equipment, so i couldn't enchant my armor to +1. Will do so next level. If i did, questionably, i could add Smoking to the spikes, since they're part of the armor and not really separate from it like Armor Spikes... In any case, build is final, for the better or for worse.

If i had normal WBL things would be different, but i only have 5th level WBL, so.... Yeah.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life