The Small Rants Thread, Continued...

[wotmaniac]

Can people please fuckin' stop to mix up "pirating" with "making an illegal copy"?!

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

I think that you're seeing the tail as wagging the dog.  The basic goal hasn't really changed; and it's the goal that is what matters.
Only the necessitated lifestyles and motivations have changed.

[DonQuixote]

Can people please fuckin' stop to mix up "pirating" with "making an illegal copy"?!

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

I think that you're seeing the tail as wagging the dog.  The basic goal hasn't really changed; and it's the goal that is what matters.
Only the necessitated lifestyles and motivations have changed.

I, for one, try to always remember to put on my eyepatch and hat when illegally downloading episodes of My Little Pony.

[ImperatorK]

I, for one, try to always remember to put on my eyepatch and hat when illegally downloading episodes of My Little Pony.

I watch it on YouTube.

[wotmaniac]

Can people please fuckin' stop to mix up "pirating" with "making an illegal copy"?!

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

I think that you're seeing the tail as wagging the dog.  The basic goal hasn't really changed; and it's the goal that is what matters.
Only the necessitated lifestyles and motivations have changed.

I, for one, try to always remember to put on my eyepatch and hat when illegally downloading episodes of My Little Pony.

Wooden peg-leg, or GTFO!

[altpersona]

Can people please fuckin' stop to mix up "pirating" with "making an illegal copy"?!

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

zug, i think you and i are the only people who make that distinction.

[Mooncrow]

Actually, the broader use of piracy makes sense if you think about it's history.  It started out being used to describe theft that took place at sea, and then when air travel came along, theft in the air was added into the definition.  The most obvious link between the two being that the theft commonly took place outside national borders.  So, when intellectual property law started being a serious issue, piracy law was the logical foundation to build on.  That's why illegal radio and the like is referred to as "pirate radio".

In short, pirates aren't limited to the guys who wave a cutlass and flintlock around, and the use of the term "piracy" to cover intellectual property theft has been in use since long before your great-grandparents were born. 

[Sinfire Titan]

Actually, the broader use of piracy makes sense if you think about it's history.  It started out being used to describe theft that took place at sea, and then when air travel came along, theft in the air was added into the definition.  The most obvious link between the two being that the theft commonly took place outside national borders.  So, when intellectual property law started being a serious issue, piracy law was the logical foundation to build on.  That's why illegal radio and the like is referred to as "pirate radio".

In short, pirates aren't limited to the guys who wave a cutlass and flintlock around, and the use of the term "piracy" to cover intellectual property theft has been in use since long before your great-grandparents were born. 

The thing is, piracy refers to doing so for the sake of profiting off of the stolen goods. Digital piracy can only really be called piracy when the person doing it is burning CDs to sell on the streets.

[altpersona]

the modern usage is 'reasonable' based on the etymology of 'Pirate'.

however, that same logic makes the term apply to loads of things.

i will concede that 'pirate radio' is a fair comparison.

but, i would argue that 'pirate radio' is also poor use of the term. (unless your doing it from a boat or in assistance to actual pirating)

copyright piracy can involve national borders, but that is not an inherent part of it. (i dont buy that argument)

[Mooncrow]

Actually, the broader use of piracy makes sense if you think about it's history.  It started out being used to describe theft that took place at sea, and then when air travel came along, theft in the air was added into the definition.  The most obvious link between the two being that the theft commonly took place outside national borders.  So, when intellectual property law started being a serious issue, piracy law was the logical foundation to build on.  That's why illegal radio and the like is referred to as "pirate radio".

In short, pirates aren't limited to the guys who wave a cutlass and flintlock around, and the use of the term "piracy" to cover intellectual property theft has been in use since long before your great-grandparents were born. 

The thing is, piracy refers to doing so for the sake of profiting off of the stolen goods. Digital piracy can only really be called piracy when the person doing it is burning CDs to sell on the streets.

No, it doesn't actually.  The laws covering theft don't give a shit whether you make money off the thing you stole or take them to your house and toss them in a huge pile.  Now, whether it makes sense to have intellectual property "theft" in the same category as regular theft is another discussion, but for now, legally, they are. 

@altpersona - I'm not sure what you mean by "poor usage" - it's been part of the legal and dictionary definition of piracy for almost 200 years now.  And whether you "buy" the argument or not, that's how they ended up being in the same category. 

edit: meant to say "almost 200 years" instead of "over 200 years" - early to mid 19th century is when most of the changes I'm talking about took place.

[altpersona]

'pirate radio' isnt 200 years old.

poor usage: the same way that pirated downloads is.


pirate radio is illegal because of radio laws, not content.

[Mooncrow]

'pirate radio' isnt 200 years old.

poor usage: the same way that pirated downloads is.


pirate radio is illegal because of radio laws, not content.

No, but intellectual property law has been part of piracy law for almost 200 years.  Radio fell under the same umbrella in 1926 (in the US at least).  And they're all called piracy because that's what they are from a legal point of view.  That's not poor usage - that's correct usage. 

[altpersona]

i think what you meant to say was

Since the first edition of Black’s*, “piracy” also has had a secondary definition that synonymizes piracy with IP theft. As Henry Campbell Black wrote in 1898, the term “piracy” “is also applied to the illicit reprinting or reproduction of a copyrighted book or print or to unlawful plagiarism from it.” This definition is consistent with the 1798 case Beckford v. Hood, one of American law’s first case citations that invoked “piracy” as a proxy for unauthorized copying. In Beckford, the court characterized the case’s primary issue (an unauthorized commercial republication of a book) as “an action upon the case for piracy of copyright.”

*Black’s Law Dictionary

http://www.infotoday.com/it/jun09/Dames.shtml

 

[Mooncrow]

Ah, thank you, I couldn't remember the name of Beckford v. Hood off the top of my head.  So I get to go back to "over 200 years".

The article linked is an excellent discussion of why we should find a new term for intellectual property "theft", and I agree with most of the points made - but it's not discussion on why people who use the current term are incorrect. 

[Monotremeancer]

I, for one, try to always remember to put on my eyepatch and hat when illegally downloading episodes of My Little Pony.

I watch it on YouTube.

Ditto. I'm still giving DonQuixote kudos for that comment though

[Kuroimaken]

Can people please fuckin' stop to mix up "pirating" with "making an illegal copy"?!

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

Pirating has a bigger sounding impact. It's a marketing thing.

Would probably help if people didn't think historical pirates were awesome.

[Sinfire Titan]

Pirating has a bigger sounding impact. It's a marketing thing.

Which is why it bugs me when people say it: Filesharing has done as much good as bad. But we all know how it goes, now don't we?

[Kuroimaken]

Pirating has a bigger sounding impact. It's a marketing thing.

Which is why it bugs me when people say it: Filesharing has done as much good as bad. But we all know how it goes, now don't we?

Yep, whoever loses a nickel, a dime or a quarter will come screaming.

I'm gonna be recording my own version of four songs this weekend. Without filesharing, I would have had to buy the original DVDs from the original products to be aware the songs existed, then buy the soundtracks or FIND A GODDAMN BAND willing to learn the songs and play them for me, in-studio.

I would be a worse singer if not for filesharing, or piracy, or whatever you choose to call it.

[Tshern]

Without p2p, I would have less music.

[Halinn]

Or do they really think that making digital copies involves physical violence, life-threatening, taking hostages, etc.?

It doesn't have to, but I tend to enjoy my copying more when it does

[zugschef]

i wouldn't have bought substantially more music/movies without filesharing, because i've bought some stuff just because i listened/watched to it before buying it! thus, this whole distinction sucks ass, and nothing more.

the point is that companies just try to put loaded criminal terms on people who commit pretty lame crimes in order to maintain their businesses; and we all know how fucked up this economy is, because people shared stuff since the invention of vhs and the compact cassette, which had absolutely no(!) impact on sell-rates. maybe companies should just rethink their selling-models.

whatever the case, PIRACY is a term which has absofuckinlutely NOTHING to do with people making or sharing digital copies of content. it may be a crime under certain law but it won't ever be the same thing as being a pirate, robber or whatever the fuck you call somebody who violently steals property from someone else because you don't fuckin' STEAL property in the first place. you fuckin' COPY it! this may offend some servitors (40k), but honestly this is a major distinction which needs to be made.