Author Topic: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...  (Read 185369 times)

Offline SneeR

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #500 on: February 07, 2012, 09:25:15 PM »
I think people who get up at arms about fair use are idiots.

What I mean is the notion that claiming your intellectual property is, in itself, a selfish act.
I had to read an essay for a class about a guy who thinks that there are no new stories, which I find a little insultingly simplistic as a writer (though I understand what people mean), and that to copyright a story is to bar new authors inspiration. Without copyright, though, other publishers could just publish your work without your permission! What a dolt!
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Offline veekie

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #501 on: February 07, 2012, 11:04:03 PM »
The difference is that fair use includes derivative works, i.e. works that make use of components of yours. One example, Tolkien estate owns hobbits, and dearly wish they could sue for halflings and other thinly disguised variations. However, that itself draws inspiration from earlier, non-copyrighted sources.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #502 on: February 09, 2012, 12:14:15 PM »
I hate people who think that renewing copyright is greedy. Disney is based entirely around their someone else's intellectual property.
I hate it when people so fucking retarded they bring up Disney as a positive example of Copyright law.

A. A chunk of their shit is books they never wrote to cartoon movies.
B. When in a pinch, they just steal shit anyway.

A HUGE number of older books were made into movies when the copy right law ended for them. So Disney's foundation is based of shorter Copyright laws and stealing people's works. Then they pressed for Copyright law time to be extended, not once or twice, but three times. In fact, at this point Disney's Pinocchio hit theaters while the original book was still under Copyright protection. You know what, fuck it. Wikipedia has a listing of all the shit they didn't create but think they own.

And maybe you missed the entire Lion King fuck up that was blasted all over the Internet but news reporters (and judges) were paid off to ignore it. Read about it before ASAP.

Fuck Disney. That company is the biggest peace of shit on this planet. I think you should at least spend the six minutes it takes and watch this youtube video too. But mostly, fuck Disney.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 12:20:49 PM by SorO_Lost »

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #503 on: February 09, 2012, 12:22:53 PM »
Some of the movies were entertaining.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #504 on: February 09, 2012, 01:23:05 PM »
I do have one good thing to say about Disney: they release Pixar and Studio Ghibli movies with no alteration, other than the translation and coinciding animation adjustments in the case of Ghibli.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #505 on: February 09, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »
Some of the movies were entertaining.
My three-year-old wants to watch more Disney than we allow in a day!
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Offline altpersona

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #506 on: February 09, 2012, 02:42:02 PM »
"nothing new under the sun"

hi freytag, how goes the pyramid building?

copyrights have only existed for a couple hundred years.

prior, people did not create things; they were inspired by god or a muse.

it is hubris to claim credit for the gifts of the gods.

this is true for ancient greeks and modern christians alike.

only the divine and atheists create.

not saying you should not be compensated for your work, but your work should be valued in perspective.

how many times were the builders of the brooklyn bridge paid vs usage?

more to a rational point;

once an idea is common knowledge its copyright is mute.

the nfl / mlb says it illegal to talk about their products around a water cooler or record the audio or video. this is beyond impractical... its farcical.

you write a book / make a play / movie / other thing, you should be paid for your work. however, its not immoral, unethical or wrong in any way for one person to relate it to another.

was president bush wrong to read The Pet Goat to those florida elementary school children? the book was in its 6th year of publication. those kids didnt compensate the publisher. bush didnt either, it was a library book. an institution based on the idea of shared content.


does the method or quality or reproduction of a work matter? no, a library will share an "original" "perfect" copy with anyone. they share books, music, movies without any inherent compensation to the author beyond an original undesignated use purchase. many times no purchase at all is made, a sizable portion of library content is pure donation.

as to method; it is irrelevant if the reproduction is verbal, graphic, multimedia or braille. if we attend a dinner at James earl Jones'es house and he breaks out into a reading of the Star Wars radio plays. not only will it be awesome, but it will be legal / ethical and no compensations to performers / producers / creators / owners will be required. the same would be true if andy warhol had painted a copy of a robert frost poem (text to image of text, or image interpretation of text) and given it to you or even sold it. Frost would not have been able to claim copyright on a picture of a split path in the woods or a blue fricken butterfly. nor could warhol claim damage against a first year art student trying to copy his monroe's.

tl:dr

without regard for quality i can memorize and sing a song i heard on someone else's radio all i please. i will have harmed no one, i will have done nothing unethical and provided no compensation to anyone involved with the original work or successive distributions.

 

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Offline darqueseid

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #507 on: February 09, 2012, 04:58:51 PM »

Inspiration doesn't come from gods or anyone else besides the creator. 

the dESIgners of the broklyn bridge were well compensated I'd imagine when they were paid to create it.  Just like the library got its books from SOMEONE buying them, if noone bought them then the original artist was the one who donated them. 

I think your missing the point, its not that disney stole the work, its that disney CLAIMED it was thier first "original" animated movie.  It actually was not original apparently, and much of thier work has not been "original".
-You can go reproduce a work all you want in your own voice, but you can't do it and claim it was your own creation.

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #508 on: February 09, 2012, 05:09:46 PM »
Actually, you can't claim that the LYRICS were written by you, or the song itself, but you CAN sing the song yourself and ask money for performing it. Lots of bands do it, and some do, in fact, do so to each other. Metallica has done this with Whiskey in the Jar, the Imperial March and Stone Cold Queen, and no one's sued them. (I can't remember which band, but someone else besides Iron Maiden did a version of Hallowed Be Thy Name too).

An argument can be made for inspiration coming from gods and whatnot if you admit the possibility of said gods existing in the original artist's mind (which, as far as the work is concerned, is the only one who can REALLY tell where the inspiration came from). Muses as well (which, in this case, may very well be real, breathing people). Just ask one of the dozen artists responsible for one of the bazillion songs out there named after a woman.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #509 on: February 09, 2012, 06:26:37 PM »
Some of the movies were entertaining.
Of course, a bunch are based on treasured material that was a timeless classic before they made a cartoon about it :p

I think your missing the point, its not that disney stole the work, its that disney CLAIMED it was thier first "original" animated movie.  It actually was not original apparently, and much of thier work has not been "original".
Indeed. Snow White for instance was written by the Brothers Grimm in the 1800s. Disney made a movie about it and grossed like 8mil. Since their story is protected by Copyright you cannot make a movie or book or anything else about Snow White, they own it without any sort of sale to obtain it or permission by it's long dead author. Then they demanded Copyright be extended because making 180mil off stolen work isn't enough securing their stolen material.

All the good Disney classics are stolen material. Pinocchio, Dumbo, Bambi, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad (better known as the disney version of sleep hollow), Cinderella, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, One Hundred and One Dalmatians, The Sword in the Stone, & The Jungle Book, are all stolen material. The ONLY animated video Disney created between the 40s & 60s era was Make Mine Music and that is mostly a compilation of music works by other people and Disney saw fit to drop most of that for the rerelease and focus on one of the short stories in it.

Then the biggest fucking pirate in the world died, and they final made an original video, The Aristocats. It took them twenty years to make an original, then they made one and lapsed and made Robinhood, Then for the first time ever they paid for something, Winnie the Pooh was a HUGE success at the time (and still is), when it's author died in the 60s they approached the grieving widow and bought her out. Still not Disney's success, it was someone else's. In 1976 Copyright was extended which preventing Pooh from timing out in 1985 and in 1977 they made a movie about Pooh. Hey I guess extending Copyright does help the author want to make more stuff, no wait. The author was dead, hmm...

Anyway, moving on. The Rescuers is based off The Rescuers and Miss Bianca through you won't see that in the movie listing I linked to on Wikipedia. The Fox and the Hound cartoon was based off a novel of the exact same name. The Black Cauldron, meh. The Great Mouse Detective was a copy of one of Eve Titus's stories, which by the way Eve made an adaptation of Arthur Conan Doyles no-longer-protected work rather than copying it. Oliver & Company was released one year before it left Copyright but that stayed out of courts. Lastly The Little Mermaid, also stolen. In 40 years Disney released 23 animated films, of those only one of them was created by them the rest was stolen material. Barring the Pooh buyout when it had 25 years left on it's Copyright but now it won't expire until 2026 effectively meaning they got an extra 41 years out of the deal that the widow couldn't try and charge for.

There is more but I need to head out, surely you have an idea at least. And we have only touched on how bad Disney is. I can start showcasing how the movies were copy/paste animations (by tracing) of each other if you really want me to destory your childhood.


Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #510 on: February 09, 2012, 06:47:18 PM »
Hey, let's not forget The Lion King.  :p
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Offline Prime32

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #511 on: February 09, 2012, 07:37:46 PM »
Hey, let's not forget The Lion King.  :p
SorO already linked to something on that. But yeah, as I understand it The Lion King was an unauthorised remake of Kimba the White Lion with elements from Hamlet.

I do have one good thing to say about Disney: they release Pixar and Studio Ghibli movies with no alteration, other than the translation and coinciding animation adjustments in the case of Ghibli.
While I agree, the DVD intro to Spirited Away seemed weirdly xenophobic, like they were claiming the English dub is superior to the original because it's not as foreign. (I haven't seen a lot of Ghibli films, and it's possible this was just poor phrasing)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 07:52:50 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #512 on: February 09, 2012, 07:48:47 PM »
Hey, let's not forget The Lion King.  :p
SorO already linked to something on that. But yeah, as I understand it The Lion King was an unauthorised remake of Kimba the White Lion with elements from Hamlet.

Japanese version: Protagonist learns that peace is achieved through mutual understanding.
Disney version: Protagonist achieves peace by killing his uncle (arguably, he DID offer the guy the chance to GTFO).

Guess which one I'm showing my kids if I have 'em.
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Offline ImperatorK

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #513 on: February 09, 2012, 07:53:28 PM »
Guess which one I'm showing my kids if I have 'em.
I assume this.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 07:57:47 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #514 on: February 09, 2012, 07:59:28 PM »
Guess which one I'm showing my kids if I have 'em.
I assume this.

The reminds me of the time I played with a bear cub.

Offline bhu

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Offline altpersona

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #516 on: February 09, 2012, 08:27:10 PM »

Inspiration doesn't come from gods or anyone else besides the creator. 

the dESIgners of the broklyn bridge were well compensated I'd imagine when they were paid to create it.  Just like the library got its books from SOMEONE buying them, if noone bought them then the original artist was the one who donated them. 

I think your missing the point, its not that disney stole the work, its that disney CLAIMED it was thier first "original" animated movie.  It actually was not original apparently, and much of thier work has not been "original".
-You can go reproduce a work all you want in your own voice, but you can't do it and claim it was your own creation.


four responses.

prior to copyright, inspiration was the default. not creation. the default for the entire western world.  this is not an opinion.

the designers of the bridge got paid, once. not for every likeness of the bridge or every user of the bridge.

i never mentioned disney once.

in my example, warhol could have indeed claimed rights to his theoretical painting without consent or compensation to frost.


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Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #517 on: February 10, 2012, 12:41:02 PM »
I hate being sick.
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Offline SneeR

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #518 on: February 10, 2012, 01:12:42 PM »
I hate being sick.
I feel you, buddy. My girlfriend  is kind of sick for two days, then I catch it an have a day-long fever that still isn't really over!

On the subject of inspiration, I as a writer am inspired by all sorts of things. I believe that a person who makes up a story without incorporating the inspiration around them is not truly inspired, but ignorant.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: The Small Rants Thread, Continued...
« Reply #519 on: February 10, 2012, 05:29:37 PM »
I have been having varying degrees of stomach cramping for the past 4 days, thus keeping me out of school; normally, this would be gone by now, due to my stellar immune system, but I've just gotten over bronchitis, am still suffering from asthma caused by said bronchitis, and I also seem to have an ingrown toenail on the SAME toe that had one this last Summer, which I needed surgery for, which looks like it is starting to get infected.

But hey, everyone else with the virus seems to be vomiting their guts out, so there's that, right?
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