Author Topic: Animals as Player Characters  (Read 8575 times)

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Animals as Player Characters
« on: July 13, 2013, 07:22:51 PM »
This topic returns for the sole fact I'm having extensive difficulty finding a very reasonable means of doing it - it boils down to the Awaken spell or the Noble Wild so far for me, as most every other solution I'm having almost no luck of really pursuing, hence why I'm now asking here whilst continuing my research.

Thus far;

- Awaken seems to be the most reasonable way to do it, but I'm stuck with a bunch of animal HD and now even more HD through Awaken; this is less than helpful for trying to make a character who already has HD (3 to be exact) on the table.
-- Animal only templates are another boon I'd like to keep - but I'm not sure if they'll stay post-Awaken. If they do, I would like some recommendations other than Magebred and Warbeast - any other notable ones.

- The Noble Wild is a decent alternative, but has some silly LAs for things that don't really need LAs (+2 LA just because a panther goes from Small to Medium? Really?) and the Noble Animal Type doesn't give me Magical Beast (Augmented Animal) like Awaken does.

The goal is to make a character who is, for all intents and purposes, an actual playable animal to fit the role of "not-companion" to the party - and the more I can get out of having the animal type for the great buffs it brings (there's a Druid in the party, but not the one who would be Awakening the character if that route is chosen), if at all possible, would be ideal.

Limiting factors are;

- Limited material/support of play; even the Noble Wild as a 3rd party supplement this concept seems to be very limited in its viability. However, all books are open and available for use, but require approval by the DM, as is Dragon magazine - so far, the sole thing he's said outright "no" to (to everyone) is the Artificer, because of...
- E6 game. (But other listed builds will be kept for future reference so I could recycle or re-purpose these efforts; one day they will see play.)
- Bizarreness of request; its a niche role, by far, but I'm trying to make this character as viable as possible and as dangerous (and credible) as possible. Panther Rogue/Swordsage, Tiger Warblade, Sabertooth Barbarian, Jaguar Psychic Warrior/Tashalatora Monk, etc.
- Feline character - yes, I know wolves are a great candidate, but my experience and knowledge is limited to felines, and if I end up with less than 3 Int and somehow playable, I can work with that given what I do know, but that's completely in the realm of hand waving by a DM, as I'd rather have a 3 Int (at lowest) and be vaguely sapient; uncannily intelligent, or play the part of "the big dumb animal", even if the latter is all an act. Going with this, I'd prefer Medium or Large size cats, hence why there's an issue of LA/HD.
- The players are used to this behavior and are expecting animal themed or based characters out of me (I primarily play a Druid and dabble in Paleo-Felinology and biology), but never exactly what or how, and this idea is one of those not yet applied.

However, that's all primarily beside the point which is this;

Anyone with any suggestions and or experience on making animals valid player characters?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 07:29:16 PM by Argent Fatalis »

Offline kitep

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2013, 07:55:34 PM »
There are several templates that will raise Int, but alas, they usually change the creater from animal to magical beast or something else.

You could give it a headband of intellect +2 or 1 or 2 wish spells to increase the Int to 3.  But this would break wealth by level.  But you can fluff the background to make it a loan that has to be paid back.

Or you could houserule a template, something like -1 STR, -1 DEX, +2 INT

Good luck!



Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2013, 08:14:18 PM »
There are several templates that will raise Int, but alas, they usually change the creater from animal to magical beast or something else.

You could give it a headband of intellect +2 or 1 or 2 wish spells to increase the Int to 3.  But this would break wealth by level.  But you can fluff the background to make it a loan that has to be paid back.

Or you could houserule a template, something like -1 STR, -1 DEX, +2 INT

Good luck!

My question is, with Awaken, and thus being an Augmented Animal, would the recipient still be valid for buffs and boons (and debuffs) that specifically effect animals?

I had considered asking the DM to grant the chosen beast a Wish - he's still an animal, more or less, with animal priorities, and a Wish bestowed to something like that is somewhat funny and simple, but how an animal can wish for anything (specifically sentience) is questionable, as someone's clearly done it.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 08:35:07 PM »
Maybe one of the more mercurial gods decided to raise the animal to sentience for the hell of it?

Offline kitep

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 08:43:33 AM »
My question is, with Awaken, and thus being an Augmented Animal, would the recipient still be valid for buffs and boons (and debuffs) that specifically effect animals?

Alas, no.  Type and subtype are related, but they're 2 different things.  Since an awakened animal becomes type "magical beast", it no longer qualifies as type "animal".[/quote]

Quote
I had considered asking the DM to grant the chosen beast a Wish - he's still an animal, more or less, with animal priorities, and a Wish bestowed to something like that is somewhat funny and simple, but how an animal can wish for anything (specifically sentience) is questionable, as someone's clearly done it.

The usual answer:  "a mad wizard did it"

Other answers:
- it was bequethed in a will from a wealthy person to his beloved pet
- a mad druid did it
- wild magic
- animal found a deck of many things and pulled out the correct card while trying to eat it
- animal was rummaging around an adventuring party's things, and happened to get a handband of intellect on its head, and then went on to find a way to wish for permanent intelligence
- no one knows how it happened.  Takes a quest to find out.
- animal has a human/dragon/outsider as an ancester.  While the bloodline is too watered down to qualify for a template, an old wish spell makes sure all the descendents have a least an Int of 3
- animal used to be a familiar/animal companion.  Contingency plans were in place in case the master died and/or the master used "share spell" to share the wish for both master and companion.
- whimsical god
- a Solar did it so the animal could escape an abusive situation
- it ate one of the fruits in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil module

Good luck!


Offline brujon

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 12:21:27 PM »
I think i actually got something. It's setting specific and requires a feat, though. It's from Ravenloft - Champions of Darkness and the name is "Feral Rearing". Can only be taken at 1st level IIRC, away from book right now. Gist of it is, you were raised by animals. It overrides your character type and changes it to "Animal".

I was even thinking of maybe abusing this to get access to animal-only templates and getting the Magical Beast type (which gives access to rapidstrike), but ultimately decided against it because the cheese smell was too great...

But yeah, if you can get your DM to okay this feat, you can get any inherent templates you want that change your type to magical beast, and still count as an animal, and not a magical beast. In fact, you can even get templates that change your type to Fey, like Telthor or Unseelie Fey and still count as an animal. Or even Half-Dragon, or any inherited template - the kinds that are acquired before character creation. It's actually meant to be used like that, since you're 'supposed' to use the feat with humanoid races, but it actually has no pre-requisites. The best thing is the feat is worded as such as that it doesn't CARE what your type was before you get the feat - no matter what it was, it changes to animal.
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Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 12:35:57 PM »
Kite, that was hilarious. I especially like the Deck of Many Things one.

As to the OP's question, if you're okay with playing as a dire animal, there is this web enhancement, featuring Dire Reincarnation. "I died of cholera in childhood, and my dad used a scroll he found in the woods as a desperate attempt to bring me back. I came back as a bear. A really, really big one. With spikes!"

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 12:56:29 PM »
I think i actually got something. It's setting specific and requires a feat, though. It's from Ravenloft - Champions of Darkness and the name is "Feral Rearing". Can only be taken at 1st level IIRC, away from book right now. Gist of it is, you were raised by animals. It overrides your character type and changes it to "Animal".

I was even thinking of maybe abusing this to get access to animal-only templates and getting the Magical Beast type (which gives access to rapidstrike), but ultimately decided against it because the cheese smell was too great...

But yeah, if you can get your DM to okay this feat, you can get any inherent templates you want that change your type to magical beast, and still count as an animal, and not a magical beast. In fact, you can even get templates that change your type to Fey, like Telthor or Unseelie Fey and still count as an animal. Or even Half-Dragon, or any inherited template - the kinds that are acquired before character creation. It's actually meant to be used like that, since you're 'supposed' to use the feat with humanoid races, but it actually has no pre-requisites. The best thing is the feat is worded as such as that it doesn't CARE what your type was before you get the feat - no matter what it was, it changes to animal.

Though I am away from the computer and using a phone I had to comment on this as this feat could really validate this entire concept - thank you for sharing it.

I might be able to work it out some how to basically create a true animal with only 1 LA as some sort of Monk/Unarmed Swordsage build with the Feral template and this feat.

Thank you all for the suggestions thus far, I truly appreciate all of your contributions
 Any further suggestions on how to make a PC-able animal such as HD-less variants, etc?

Offline Amechra

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 02:34:40 PM »
You could grab that feat and dip Shapeshift Druid...

Spend all your time Shapeshifted, and you are roughly predatory-animal shape. You get to fluff it however you please.

Rawr, you're a kitty.
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Offline Demelain

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 03:06:40 PM »
You could grab that feat and dip Shapeshift Druid...

Spend all your time Shapeshifted, and you are roughly predatory-animal shape. You get to fluff it however you please.

Rawr, you're a kitty.

That can shapeshift into a human.

Alas, if only Tibits were larger.

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 03:21:44 PM »
You could grab that feat and dip Shapeshift Druid...

Spend all your time Shapeshifted, and you are roughly predatory-animal shape. You get to fluff it however you please.

Rawr, you're a kitty.

That can shapeshift into a human.

Alas, if only Tibits were larger.

That's one way to be the Fangshields Druid ACF without actually being one. As for Shapeshift Druid, that might be an entirely valid route with this feat. Still away from books, but doesn't the Shapeshift Druid ACF only require Wild Shape and nothing else? If so, I could go Wild Shape Ranger and then do the Fangshield ACF for a few free and appropriate benefits.

Offline Demelain

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 07:39:10 PM »
The Divine Minion template gives you the ability to wildshape at-will and indefinitely into a specific animal, the [Outsider] type, and a bunch of other bonuses. LA varies by deity. Cats available and LA: Lion (+1), Cat (+2), Leopard (+2). Wildshape is as an 11th level Druid.

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 10:56:27 PM »
The Divine Minion template gives you the ability to wildshape at-will and indefinitely into a specific animal, the [Outsider] type, and a bunch of other bonuses. LA varies by deity. Cats available and LA: Lion (+1), Cat (+2), Leopard (+2). Wildshape is as an 11th level Druid.

Really interesting template - absolutely keeping a tab on that one for a later date as that's quite valid all for a neat +1 LA.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 11:48:41 PM »
3.0 reincarnate?
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 03:31:44 PM »
I figure a 1hd (or lower) Animal would be
a straight conversion, raw and no problem.
Throw in the usual pile of templates too.

Probably very weak compared to well trod
paths of PC destruction ; and considering
you can play a normal PC race, with an
almost similar Animal via whatever ... y'know.

If you did 1hd Animal first, then go Awaken,
gives you +2hd (=easy) and the bump up
on stats valued at ?? +LA.  Nobody knows.

Diplomance your Mount/Critter/Familiar/Animal
and then give it Awaken = it sticks around.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline spacemonkey555

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 04:44:59 PM »
but I'm stuck with a bunch of animal HD and now even more HD through Awaken; this is less than helpful for trying to make a character who already has HD (3 to be exact) on the table.

Maybe the dm will let you write an encounter with an undead into your backstory to level drain away unwanted hit dice.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 09:33:16 AM »
Unapproachable East gives wolves an LA of +2, working backwards from the telthor wolf statblock. Though you could just play a werewolf for the same LA and better stats.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 12:33:04 PM »
phb II variant deck of many things might be of assistance.

Offline bhu

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 01:03:17 PM »

Offline brujon

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Re: Animals as Player Characters
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 01:58:37 PM »
Are you willing to use Homebrew?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=994.msg6679#msg6679

That would still change the type to Magical Beast, so i believe it won't do, unless he uses that, and then takes the feat from Ravenloft.
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