Author Topic: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread  (Read 2927 times)

Offline Arz

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Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« on: July 15, 2013, 06:49:56 PM »
Thread here

Review, discuss, and make me feel blue.

Offline Demelain

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 07:22:49 PM »
I'm only passingly familiar with MoI in general, and less with Soulborn (mostly because of the three, it's the one that people shit on as being too weak). For the alignment-based abilities, what effect would being a LG Hellbred with the Ordered Chaos feat have?

Offline Arz

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 07:31:32 PM »
The debatable part: Access to all alignment based soulmelds. An awful lot of people won't accept transparency for this race and evil exception is not as strongly worded as ordered chaos.

The RAW: All Lawful Good and Chaotic Good Class features.

On the legit side: LE Sanctified Neraph w/ ordered chaos. All alignment class features and soulmelds. Vulnerable to good and evil spells. And there are other ways to reverse this and utterly back out of alignment and still be a soulborn.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 07:43:29 PM »
Ordered Chaos is pretty explicit in saying "spells and effects," and since soulmelds are definitely effects it would work.

The Hellbred's Evil Exception ability is as follows:

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Evil Exception (Ex): Regardless of alignment or class restrictions, a hellbred can cast spells with the evil descriptor and never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items, such as unholy weapons or demon armor...

It explicitly says spells and nothing else.  Nothing in the soulmeld-magic transparency page says that soulmelds qualify as spells for all intents and purposes; merely that for some things they behaved similarly.  Ability to use them is not one of those things.

And Arz, Sanctified creatures are listed as Always Good, t least in the BoED.  Are you using a different source? Is there even a different source for that?  Anyway, by the BoED's Sanctified Creature rules, that Neraph couldn't be LE.

However, a creature that had the Evil subtype but was actually Lawful Good and had the Ordered Chaos feat could indeed qualify as all four alignments because of the wording:

Quote
"Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment."
  Bold for emphasis.

The only creature I know of with the Evil subtype that isn't listed as Always Evil is the Kaorti from Fiend Folio.  So a LG one of those with OC could do it, as could any other LG Evil subtype Sanctified creature with OC.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 07:53:03 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 05:35:01 PM »
" ... Gold star to anyone that can find a way to get a dark invocation on a straight soulborn build ... "


Besides the earlier psionics trick, it's suprising how interesting that FoB transfer SLA ability is. For example, be a warlock with a two level dip in FoB and now you can share all of your all-day invocations with all your party members for free  :drool. This thread has a bunch more stuff on the PRC.

Does this count / work ??
 :???
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Arz

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 03:44:31 PM »
YES! Yes, it does. I had been looking that class over for spellthieves and there are ways to make it near permanent. Thanks, since this is a pertinent defense for sb.

On a seperate item, been thinking of rewriting and adding a C-C-COMBO! section. Anything need particular attention? Esp formatting.


Offline Arz

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Re: Vantage Guide to Soulborn - Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 07:30:26 PM »
Editing done except soulmelds. Probably need to tabulate that.