Playing a Monster, which best for Sorcerer?

[RealMarkP]

My DM is thinking of doing a Monster-only campaign, starting at ECL 10. I'm looking to see which class would be best to play as a Sorcerer or Wizard. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Monsters have to be Humanoid or humanoid in shape. No squids or oozes. Must be sentient with a decent Int (if sorcerer).

[Raineh Daze]

Succubus?

[linklord231]

This should probably go in Min/Max rather than Ask a Question. 

That being said, just pick one off of this list that has the appropriate ability scores.  For a straight sorcerer, Kobold is an excellent choice (see if you can be one of the variants that doesn't take a Con penalty, like Desert).  For a gish type, Neraph is excellent because it comes with free Martial Weapon proficiency which lets you get access to certain PrCs without losing undue caster levels, and since it has the Outsider type, it opens up all kinds of fun Alter Self forms at low levels. 

The reason I recommend being an LA +0 race even though you're going for an all monster campaign is because Level Adjustments and Racial Hit Dice are terrible for casters. 

[zioth]

Yeah. If you don't have to take LA or racial hit dice, go with a kobold or something else with LA+0. If you have a minimum LA, that changes things. If ten whole ECL have to be accounted for by LA and HD alone, here are some ideas off the top of my head:
 
- Pixie has great modifiers, great AC and at-will Fly and Greater Invisibility. Shove in a bunch of templates to bring it up to +10.
- Ogre Mage isn't a bad choice. Good CHA and CON, and the racial HD mean more hit points. Regeneration is nice too. Of course, that's ECL+12...
- You can't go wrong with Lich or Vampire.
- Any tough race with the half-dragon, half-celestial and/or two-headed template can be nice.
- Boggle (MM2) with templates can be nice.
- Jermlain with a lot of templates (also good if you can get away with LA+0).
- Anthropomorphic (Savage Species) animals can be really good.

[Ithamar]

Start here:  Monsters with Innate Spellcasting.

A sylph (MMII) would be good.  Or aranea can assume the form of a humanoid when needed.

[sirpercival]

Steel dragon.

[Maat Mons]

this list

Or, you know, this one. 

[Kasz]

It's not as good as a Sylph but there's always the Cheshire Cat

[linklord231]

Or, you know, this one.

That's the one I was looking for, but Google gave me the other one first 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Literally Sorc Sorc ... or Sorc-y-like something
that feels in the ballpark, but is better?


3.0e Rakshasa are great, but tempt the DM with Fiat-sugar.
Savage Species has a number of Racial Progs
of monsters that have casting of some sort.
Usually you can fit in Nar Demonbinder 1 / Dual Caster X.

[ImperatorK]

Rakshasa?

[linklord231]

If you must have all 10 ECL in monster hit dice and level adjustments, try to get something like Choker or Chronotyryn that lets you take multiple turns' worth of actions in one turn. 

[SorO_Lost]

I second Steel Dragon, just take Assume Supernatural Ability and Polymorph into a Choker.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

There is also the White Dragonspawn Template.

[Hallack]

I'm assuming 3.5 but if he would allow Pathfinder material I'd try for a Faerie Dragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon-faerie)

They have great stats and cast as 3rd level Sorcerers.  Casting, not spell-likes.  That should mean any Sorcerer levels you take will just add to the existing Sorcerer casting netting you ZERO lost caster levels. 

[zioth]

Pathfinder monsters don't have LA. When you play them as PCs, there are different rules for deciding their level. If Faerie Dragon were a D&D monster, it would have an LA of 3 or 4 at least.
 
That is a pretty nice monster though. 3rd level caster, 3/day greater invisibility, a bunch of other nice spell like abilities, immunities and good stats, and all for a CR of 2. I could see a couple of these easily wiping out a 2nd level party, if you change their spells known.

[zook1shoe]

Sharn?

[Hallack]

Pathfinder monsters don't have LA. When you play them as PCs, there are different rules for deciding their level. If Faerie Dragon were a D&D monster, it would have an LA of 3 or 4 at least.
 
That is a pretty nice monster though. 3rd level caster, 3/day greater invisibility, a bunch of other nice spell like abilities, immunities and good stats, and all for a CR of 2. I could see a couple of these easily wiping out a 2nd level party, if you change their spells known.

Pathfinder rules use CR as level in comparing to classes.  My group is starting a game with monster races as well.  I had looked at the Faerie Dragon as an option if I wanted to play full caster. 
, by pathfinder method a
So using Pathfinder rules a Faerie Dragon (CR2) would be able to take 8 more levels of Sorcerer to hit the ECL 10 range.

Yeah, for my game it was tempting to start as 4th level Faerie Dragon Sorcerer for an effecting Sorcerer level of 7th.  We are starting at 6th level with no Racial CRs over 4th.
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