Help with a build

[Dragon lord]

I'm currently trying to put together a pixie tank (ecl 5) we're allowed to use PHB(1+2),DMG(1+2), MM(1+2), complete warrior, arcane, divine, psionic and adventurer, XPH, manual of the planes, magic item compendium, spell compendium, and arms and equipment for mundane items.

28 point buy
STR: 14 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 14 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
(after adjustments) STR: 10 DEX: 24 CON: 14 INT: 20 WIS: 12 CHA: 14

it also has to be tier 4, 5 or 6 classes only. (we're using a slightly different tier list so ours looks like [5 or 6 only]
Tier 5 (Costs 2 Points) 8

Dragon Shaman, Hexblade, Marshal, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Warlock.


Tier 6 (Costs 1 Point) 8

Barbarian, Fighter, Knight, Monk, Ninja, Samurai, Soulknife, Swashbuckler.
)
I'm currently thinking

1 pixie
2 pixie
3 pixie
4 Rogue
5 Rogue (evasion - to avoid insta kill AOE's)
6 swashbuckler
7 swashbuckler
8 swashbuckler (+ int to damage )
9 rogue/swashbuckler/warlock
10 Rogue/Arcane Trickster
11 rogue/Arcane Trickster
12 rogue/Arcane Trickster
13 rogue/Arcane Trickster
14 Rogue/Arcane Trickster
16 Rogue/Arcane Trickster (campaign supposed to end here)

Feats

1 - EWP Spiked Chain
3 - Combat Reflexes
6 - Stand Still (need to work out how to afford 13 str)
9 - Cloak dance

I'm worried about being able to hold Agro and not be ignored for a simpler target.  I'm also worried about being able to deal enough damage.

(I've got no clue about feats)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edit : I'm currently thinking of taking improved disarm and combat reflexes with a spiked chain once I get swashbuckler.

[Darkcouch]

Your size will put you at a considerable disadvantage for disarming.  You would probably be better suited to a lockdown type build:  EWP: Spiked chain, Combat Reflexes, stand still, robilar's gambit, defensive sweep(doubt you will be able to squeeze this one in due to the +15BAB required)

[Dragon lord]

I'd have to work out how to get enough strength for stand still, but looks viable.

I also have no problems with changing my class progression if it would make better sense (was originally going to go ranger anyway, but figured I needed the evasion)

[Dictum Mortuum]

IIRC spiked chain gives you 5ft reach, since you're tiny, so, unless you enlarge yourself, it's not the best thing to go after a lockdown build.

[Dragon lord]

I'm only small, so I think it's still 10' reach.

[Jackinthegreen]

Pixies are indeed small, thus reach weapons work for them like they do for medium creatures.

What kind of foes do you think you'll be going up against?  It's somewhat rare for a reflex save to actually cause problems other than HP damage.  If you're really worried about spells, however, Hexblade will get you Mettle, Charisma to saves vs spells, as well as full BAB and D10 hit dice.  If you go in far enough to get spells, take a look at this spell list to see what might interest you, as well as the Hexblade Handbook written by Dictum Mortuum.

The Dark Companion ACF is open to you since PHB2 is available, and might work well for you if you don't want to bother with a familiar.  It also helps put the spotlight on you since enemies tend to notice debuffs, and if you're the one controlling a moving debuff, the enemies probably won't like you.

You might want to look at Alternate Class Features to perhaps eke out some more from those classes and books available to you.

[Dragon lord]

Hmm, hadn't considered that.  Only issue there is how to keep the damage up and maximise the fact that I'm invisible.  I can see using the dark companion so 4 levels would be nice.

Do you think 2d6 sneak attack would be enough for improving damage output? and having a progression like or is it too many classes?

STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
(after adjustments) STR: 12 DEX: 24 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 12 CHA: 14

1 Rogue (1d6 SA) bab 0
2 Rogue (Evasion) bab 1
3 Hexblade (curse) bab 2
4 Hexblade (resistance) (+1 STR) bab3
5 Hexblade (Mettle) bab 4
6 Hexblade (Dark Companion) bab 5
7 Rogue (2d6 SA) bab 6
8 Swashbuckler (dead) (+1 DEX) bab 7
9 Swashbuckler (Grace +1) bab 8
10 Swashbuckler (int damage) bab 9
11 Rogue (uncanny dodge) bab 10
12 Rogue (3d6 SA) (+1 DEX) bab 10

Feats

1 EWP Spiked Chain
3 Combat Reflexes
6 Stand Still
9 Mobility
12 elusive target

16th level +18/13 hit 2D4 + 4 + 3d6 SA (avg 15 dmg/hit)
Saves f5(7)  r6(14) 6(7)

[Jackinthegreen]

Are you playing with multiclass experience penalties?  Is fractional BAB and/or saves in effect?

I recommend ditching swashbuckler.  The only thing swashbuckler is getting you is int to damage since pixie gets weapon finesse as a bonus feat and the +1 ref save boost from Grace is crap.  The fact that Complete Mage isn't available means you can't even trade the Grace for Arcane Stunt.  Also, since Complete Scoundrel isn't available you can't take the Daring Outlaw feat which would let your swashbuckler and rogue levels stack for determining SA damage (and Grace bonus and Dodge bonus).  There are better ways to get more (and more reliable) damage than 3 levels in that class.

Why on earth are you taking Cloak Dance when, as a pixie, you're already invisible?  Even if it gets dispelled, it's a free action for you to put it back up again.  Will there be a lot of anti-magic zones to negate your greater invisibility or something?

Power Attack that late isn't going to do much for you.  Due to the other necessary feats for getting the finesse reach weapon + Stand Still combo though, it looks like the earliest you could take it is 9th.

Come to think of it, what kind of tank do you want to be in the first place?  Pixie and tank don't typically mesh well due to the +4 LA, though I see the DR 10/cold iron would work along that front.  Be warned that at the start you're going to be quite low on HP compared to those with full class levels, so unless your partymates also have LA you'll really have issues.

For the more agile "tanky" type you could go with Elusive Target since you get Dodge as a bonus feat anyway.

If you're going the Stand Still route, the knight class can offer a good boost to that with the Bulwark of Defense ability gained at 3rd level which makes an opponent you threaten at the start of its turn treat all squares you threaten as difficult terrain, meaning they can't take a 5-foot step.  However, you won't gain much from the Knight's Challenge abilities because the scaling for them sucks (both their DCs and effects in general).

[jameswilliamogle]

How about the Hexblade to Blackguard transition to get that much more debuff?

[Jackinthegreen]

How about the Hexblade to Blackguard transition to get that much more debuff?

Most campaigns aren't exactly friendly to Evil characters, so BG might be right out from the start.  Even if it is allowed, however, the feats needed for it (Cleave, Power Attack, and Improved Sunder) are not at all in line with the goal and limitations of the build.

[Dragon lord]

While I really like the idea of bulwark of defence, I wonder if knights challenge wouldn't conflict with the idea for the build (permanent invis permanently denying opponents their dex)

And I was thinking cloak dance for opponents that can see through my invis

[Dragon lord]

We're not using fractional ban or saves though it has been mooted.

As for the sort of tank, I'm starting to think the kind that draws a line in the sand and then makes sure no one crosses it.

I see invis being his biggest advantage and disadvantage once it's overcome.

Current tactics are looking like, round 1 take up position in front of the casters and empty a sack of marbles/oil onto the squares in front of me (or get a friendly caster to cast grease). After each normal attack possibly move vertically into a different square (I have 3 to choose from due to reach).  Anyone that tries to get through the area I'm guarding has gets attacked, if i hit them they have to make a balance check or fall over.  Then when they stand up, rinse and repeat.

[Kasz]

I don't know where it places on your tier list but what about Dragonfire Adept? It's usually seen as about equal to a warlock as an invocation user. 

If you're looking to Pixie tank...the best tanks to me are the lockdown tanks. No point just taking damage to the face in order to protect the wizard's face... eventually something is going to out-nova your hp or out-hit your AC.

the DFA locks down with things like entangling exhalation... so you could chuck out your marbles coated in oil... then next round light everything up with a fire cone breath weapon that entangles then next round sicken everything with sickening breath.

That's at level 2 (ECL 5).

At level 3 you can make your allies immune to your breaths... just in case. Doesn't matter that you're small... it's still a 15ft cone. There's no to-hit roll, it's all Save DC based, which is CON based...a natural stat for a tanky type.

The tanking here would be all debuffing and denial. Nothing says locked down more than entangled and slowed enemies. They would have a hard time getting past your "line in the sand".

If your party is all melee though... then it's a bit pointless. At higher levels you could perform dragonesque flyby strafing runs with your breath weapon to cover larger areas. Plus... Fire Breathing Fairy.

Just an idea.

[Dragon lord]

Unfortunately Dragonfire adept isn't in a book that we're using.

The sort of build that I'm looking at is looking to be a lockdown build, using SA to generate the damage for the stand still DC's and having a massive number of AoO.

Also, Level 2 would be ECL 6.

The rest of the party is Shaper, Wizard (divination spec), Cleric, Rogue/assassin/Ooze Master, SoulKnife tank

[Dragon lord]

STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 8
(after adjustments) STR: 12 DEX: 24 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 12 CHA: 14

1 Rogue (1d6 SA) bab 0
2 Rogue (Evasion) bab 1
3 Hexblade (curse) bab 2
4 Hexblade (resistance) (+1 STR) bab3
5 Hexblade (Mettle) bab 4
6 Hexblade (Dark Companion) bab 5
7 Rogue (2d6 SA) bab 6
8 Fighter  (+1 DEX) bab 7
9 Fighter bab 8
10 Fighter bab 9
11 Rogue (uncanny dodge) bab 10
12 Rogue (3d6 SA) (+1 DEX) bab 10

Feats

1 EWP Spiked Chain
3 Combat Reflexes
6 Stand Still
9 Mobility
12 elusive target

Fighter 1 Close quarter fighting
Fighter 2 ???
16th level +18/13 hit 2D4 + 4 + 3d6 SA (avg 15 dmg/hit)
Saves f5(7)  r6(14) 6(7)

equipment at 5th level (1st level)
Enduring amulet   1500
Ring Protection +1   2000
+1 padded armour   1155
+1 spiked chain   2325
MW mithrial buckler   1015
Healing Belt   750

[Dragon lord]

Looks like this build isn't going to float past the group, thanks for the help, Now to try and adapt it to another race...

[Darkcouch]

If you are going for a similar build with a different race you probably want to go Hexblade 5 instead of Fighter 3.  Fighter 3 is a dead level but Hexblade 5 nets you another feat (although from a short list) and an extra curse use per day.

[Dragon lord]

I'm thinking of replacing the rogue levels as I won't have a -4 str penalty to worry about.

[Jackinthegreen]

If you're still looking at a lockdown build, fighter will get you there the fastest because of all the extra feats.  Going human will get you an extra feat as well and it's rare for any game not to allow a human unless the campaign has a certain racial theme going on.

I recall there's a build possible using the core three books that gets good mileage, though I don't specifically remember much other than it has fighter, ranger, and horizon walker in it.  Horizon walker is taken for six levels to get the Shifting (Planar) ability which allows you to use Dimension Door with a caster level of your character level once every 1d4 rounds.  It's pretty helpful in being mobile, though with more books available you might not need it.

[Dragon lord]

Cool   I'll have to see if I can work that one out, any ideas where to start?