Death's DueMost of these effects scale very strongly compared to other maneuvers that require at least one feat to reliably be used to max efficiency, like Ancient Temple.
Perhaps the number of times it can be applied should be more along the lines of Half IL, minimum once.
Death Due as currently designed also seems too much of an advantage for martial discipline dips since the taxes are constants instead of exponential - meaning you can turn some low level maneuvers into maneuvers of high level power with pocket change. This is mostly true considering that unlike the other maneuvers Riverside View does not have a closed system; it works alongside the mechanics of treasure rewards and WBL, which makes it harder to properly gauge and easier to work with the higher your WBL is. One of the big problems of not using a closed system is that you can keep boosting your maneuvers without any downtime or limiter beyond the limits of that other system, which relies on the whims and decisions of the DM. So you get a feat to help you become more independent of the wealth system, but it doesn't change the way it works or the implied fairness of the great power for a monetary investment.
It could also be better to to have it limited in a similar fashion to how high level psionic powers cannot be boosted with as much additional power points as low level powers. It could take the form of a penalty by maneuver level on how many times DD can be applied. That would take care of how high level maneuvers reaches ridiculous heights when Death's Due is maxed.
SpiritsYou say the Riverside maneuvers are immobile, but you probably meant 'Riverside View spirits'.
I have strongly mixed feelings on making a mechanism deal damage by itself as a free action as part of just initiating a maneuver. It is even worse that you do not specify the area of effect of those exploding souls or give any means to avoid the damage. Half Profession (Ferrymen) checks is also a lot of damage for something you get more or less for free. The number of spirits is also pretty big, even half that number would be pretty sweet.
Also, I think we should beware of setting skill ranks as a limit. It is pretty much just a way to give free progression of something that exceeds your character level and can be increased even if your initiator level sucks. Increasing stuff better than your IL does without even leveling into something that has anything to do with you being a better martial adept, especially for a mechanic that applied to many maneuvers, sounds weird to me.
You also mention twice that no two spirit can occupy the same space unless mentioned otherwise.
The spirit duration reset clause is also a very bad idea; it means that with a good maneuver recovery system an adept can raise maximum spirits and keep initiating maneuvers ever so often to continuously reset their duration.
FeatsGuide of Riverside Mist10% of WBL is a
lot of money.
Considering that eventually the price of death for the higher level maneuvers starts to actually be significant in the way the tax scales, this feat may become more or less essential if you consider using death's due at all.
What I am curious of though is how balanced this feat is meant to be in what it aims to accomplish in terms of how much it is meant to help a player use death's due.
A problem with death's due with this feat in high level play is that 10% WBL grossly catches up with the costs. At epic and higher, it makes them all trivial so death's due + this feat makes the entire discipline superior to all the others (besides those meant to be totally overpowered), if it isn't already.
Fallen and Ruined ShinigamiOdds are your money needs for Death's Due will be covered by Guide of Riverside Mist so another feat that helps it abuse the mechanics might be a bit overkill. If anything this one might be a good replacement for the Guide of Riverside Mist.
Only problem with this one is that it involves a bit more bookkeeping. Or a LOT more. Material possessions can go a long way. You get 50% off the value of his house? Etc.
Unless you meant the value of the gear they have on at the time of death. A bit less of a hassle to determine by the DM but it is one more thing bound to slow the game down.
Mercantile God of DeathRiver Retour: Very similar to that Ancient Temple feat option. As I did with this one, I'd suggest a max of 1 such move per round otherwise it gets ridiculous. For the same reason. That or you can change it or AT's outright to avoid having too much of your stuff doing essentially the same thing.
Priceless Life:
"To use this option you must have used Slave Spirits on the previous round and now to. Make an attack with a Scythe..."
Might be a better idea to require that the target of the effect was got caught by Slave Spirits on the previous round otherwise it is way too easy accomplish by just blasting empty space then having the leisure of choosing any target. Let's put the tactic in the tactical feat.
Otherwise:
They must either spend all their actions discarding all their own belongings to the floor
...it is a little unclear. What is the person afflicted by this supposed to do, and who decides what happens? A player with an armor could just start un-donning his armor, which takes a while and probably won't happen by the time the effect ends.
Likewise, un-equipping things usually requires about a Move action, and who decides what is unequipped an what isn't?
Perhaps it'd be much simpler to just have them drop whatever they are holding as if they were stunned, but without actually being stunned. There is also no means to negating the effect past dodging the attack. That effect also feels like a compulsion but it isn't clear exactly what it is for the purpose of determining what is resistant to it.
ManeuversTip of DeathWhy would a coin deal piercing damage?
Is there Str mod applying on top of those coin damage per coin? I mean, yes, they deal 1d6 each, but you also specified that they are thrown weapons, which have their own rules including adding Str to dmg, so it it isn't clear. By saying that they are not thrown weapons but apply thrown weapon abilities on the first hit might make it clearer if that wasn't your intent.
Death's Due also makes a level 1 maneuver progress with IL further than any other level 1 maneuver, with an average potential damage of 258+Int+thrown attack abilities.
Be very careful how far Death's Due can take a maneuver, especially the low level ones, since they can easily always be maxed for pocket change.
Nautical Sign "Flow of the River"So, movement for a swift/immediate. Pretty good this early and progresses naturally.
The AC and saves progression of Death's Due is very fast though. Not sure why it increases saves as well during the movement.
Lonely Bound SpiritThe second ghost doubling the penalty is understandable, but a multiplier on the damage? There are already rules on how damage are handled with spirits, so mentioning a double damage here the way you did makes the intent of that statement unclear.
What I mean is that it could be interpreted that if the second ghost is made, the damage of ALL your spirits is doubled.
I'm otherwise not keen on the idea of investing to increase % chances of having things happen.
It must really suck to pay actual money to buff your % and miss it all the same, especially how unlikely it is early at the rate it progresses, and you need that maneuver mostly when you are low level.
Scythe of the ReaperI think that sets the record for earliest melee reach increasing maneuver.
That strike maneuver is hiding a boost. It should apply for the maneuver's attack only. It'd be alright as an instantaneous effect.
DD gives way too many potential targets for a level 1 maneuver requiring a standard action. This strike would have been more in line with your other level 1 maneuvers if it attacked a static amount of adjacent creatures (say, 2. If the maneuver was a fullround action instead, more) for the normal effect with about a 5ft bonus melee reach every three or even four DD investments considering how cheap you'd pay for the melee reach.
Boat on the StyxFullround action move and attack everything in reach? You put a strike maneuver within your stance; a strike not very different from a certain series of Ancient Temple strikes.
The boat by itself is already pretty nice.
I believe that it would be better if there were no Death's Due clauses on the stances considering they last until you decide they don't anymore or use something else. Unless you put some kind of boost-long limiter to how long the DD effect lasts.
The speed increases also progress too quickly. Speed on water would be better at double the land speed instead of quadruple.
Cash Into the NightThis maneuver is too early for the damage it deals. Making it stay like a sphere of fire effect is also way too unbalanced for that level (unless the potential damage is WAY lower, scaling or not). Being able to move it on top makes it ridiculous. This is Mystic Cold Winds on steroids a level before it. As is it is a strong level 4 maneuver.
Bound Spirits of the EarthWin-win where both scenarios are totally different is a strange thing for a maneuver. The goal is to hit to make things happen. You're not supposed to want to miss to make something else happen, like detonating your existing spirits. The logical effect would be that a spirit is also created if you hit.
The additional boost to spirits that, on a failed save, has them auto-dealing damage+trip if for being passed through. Is it applying to creatures already sharing space with a spirit?
Such as aiming an empty square next to a creature, missing on purpose to create a spirit on the creature.
Wind on the Last JourneyConsidering the practicality of the counter's trigger and the fact that it can inflict a stun/daze effect for a level 2 maneuver on top of giving an attack, it already feels like a superior maneuver when compared to the other disciplines. Death Due on top that feels too much.
A Human Spirit Passing ByThe DD spirit wall by itself could have been the level 2 maneuver. As a strike. Its possible duration is also ridiculously long.
You give a save DC for something but the description mentions nothing of it.
The base effect giving an scaling AoE attack being similar to Divine Flame's Hell Wave Cannon, available at level 2, it makes me feel I should probably make the AoE scale as well. If you make it scale, have it scale off IL instead of skill ranks. Range should work out of IL.
You make too much stuff dependent on skill ranks when a maneuver's power should primarily depend on IL. As said, skill rank dependency sounds like an excuse to have effects benefit from a cap higher than your own HD.
I don't like the idea of giving unavoidable damage when you miss. Especially for a level 2 maneuver.
Scythe of ExorcismThe heal per spirit should be equal to IL tops. And probably should only be able to heal yourself.
As is, it creates the impression that enemies could steal your heals but because the maneuver isn't a fullround action all it really does is make it possible for the death lady to become the team's heal bot with a low level maneuver for some reason.
Yeah, it technically costs money but I assume that the WBL feat is taken by default to raise the discipline to the power level of Ancient Temple while still remaining optional.
The Endless WayThis could have been your maneuver level 5+ stance.
Free move actions? Multiple free move actions? You move every time the entire team moves and can teleport around.
Include a melee specialist and he can never ever get into melee range, or run away. No saves nor any means to stop having your movements mirrored. If the enemy teleports out, they get to hitchhike you along.
And dodge bonus against AoO on top, why not. Range dependent on skill ranks instead of IL again. Feels like you completely forgot that IL exists. A martial dipper's dream (I'll stop mentioning it from now on since I figure it will be a recurring trend throughout the discipline).
Poor Fate "Short Life expectancy"I cannot believe this thing could be allowed to exist. It seems made straight out of one of the most broken spells ever, Avasculate (7th level) and is arguably even better because it hampers hp recovery on top. And can do so for way too long.
The target switched midway from singular to plural for some reason, which makes one wonder if the lifespan reduction is meant to affect the initial target and whatever he collides with along the way or just the initial target.
The lifespan reduction is pretty weird as well considering there aren't many known means to restore reduced lifespans and you did not include a mean to recover them, as you usually do. How half nigh immortality can become 1 year left is a very odd notion as well. Could count as if they were dragons or had 1000 years, so you can keep hacking away at them to further half their years down. Otherwise you'd think someone good enough to cut a nigh immortal's lifespan that short should make mince work of anyone with a normal lifespan.
While the basic effect is already ridiculous and makes any additional effect seem utterly overkill, the DD effect also seems to apply without a save. Short story shorter; the maneuver is grossly overpowered.
The basic effect could have been a normal damage pushing maneuver with a small damage bonus if it collides unto something + prevents all hp recovery for 1 round.
DD effect could have reduced lifespan and a -1 penalty on fort saves every 3rd DD applied or something like that.
Malice Sign "Irresolute Bound Spirit"Why is there more targets than spirits created?
Ties With the DeceasedAn effect just for having a maneuver prepared? Are we still doing martial discipline?
Even a stance's passive effects need to be initiated to start granting stuff, why should maneuvers start giving things just for preparing them?
I realize that some of your DD effects aren't all designed equal in practice as some maneuvers have DD effects whose major use is mostly in being applied once, then every other application drop drastically in usefulness. In this case, one use and you can speak with any corpse, and the rest is for more questions. Perhaps make the "any corpse" effect apply only to those extra question, excluding those granted by the base effect.
Spirit Sign "Abundant Floating Spirits"I'm confused as to what the save DC is for.
Taste of DeathSounds like the kind of maneuver that combos extremely well with gravity. Can be used to rescue allies.
The range could have been half of what it currently is and it still would have been enough. Mostly because it ignores LoE and all obstacles.
DD's extra damage progresses too quickly, especially considering the target number increases as well. Normally it taking a fullround action would cover for multiple targets but the area of effect is pretty darn gigantic - not like a smaller burst within a bigger range.
Ritual of EcstasyI don't think anything that makes it possible to increase your DC by a number equal to your IL is a good idea.
Range is huge.
Floating Spirits of The Indolent DeadAll those bonus DC increases should be removed or greatly reduced. A potential of 2+(2 x skill ranks) DC increase without counting additional DC increase sources and potential penalties to saves inflicted to the victims. This is insane.
Giving the additional effect of completely neutralizing people facing those absurd save DCs basically turn every encounter into a race to make as many spirits as possible (if you don't already have your little spirit army ready) and swarm everyone.
I could abuse this maneuver forever.
DD stacking speed multipliers instead of stacking incremental speed increases makes this way too easy.
Exchange "Unpitiable, Pitiable Life"This maneuver should be level 8. It doesn't require 5 spellcards to use even in that fighting game for nothing.
It is very cheap thing encouraging very cheap strategies.
The save should include negating the horrible hp switch. The negative buff transfer reminds me of Divine Flame's original Break Prominence, which was an attack that transferred a single negative effect. A maneuver I changed after you told me it was too good. This one transfers every negative effects as a an additional effect.
DD on top of this already broken maneuver makes it even worse.
Old Rain "Rain in the Afterworld Journey"Komachi controls distance and death/spirit-related stuff to a point but control over the water (even styx rain) is a little strange for her, so I guess that like Aya I don't understand why the rain she controls would be actual rain instead of something else. Anyway. That aside the opposed check using skill ranks instead of IL is a bad idea because it gives an unjustified advantage over HD.
DD giving distance multipliers instead of additional range increments is bad. The duration increases progress too quickly.
Scythe of Wandering SpiritsWhat is the save DC for? The DD pushing effect that seems to be without a save?
The heal trick suffers most of the same issues as Scythe of Exorcism.
The healing done is also massive. Skill check times spirit number, which can be as high as IL. Insane.
Why is the death lady the best healer ever? Seriously? You don't even need enemies; just attack your own teammates or whatever. You'll heal them way more than you damage them anyway.
Throw AwayThe maneuver would be alright if DD could only be applied once. It otherwise becomes an superpowered version of Crystallized Silver's Icicle Bomb that also reduces damage received and remove ill effects on top, if it wouldn't already be with a single DD application. Icicle Bomb has ref for half instead of negate, sure, but it doesn't have an AoE damage zone.
Spirit Sign "Awakening of the Ancient Earthbound Spirits"I was perfectly fine with this maneuver until the DD effect was mentioned.
Instant spirit army maneuver right there to get every other spirit abuse tricks going on the go if you didn't manage to prepare them or need to make a new one for some reason. Multiplications per application is downright broken.
Way of Avici "Infinite Nightmare"Still clearly unbalanced. I don't see why I even have to explain it when there mere fact that increasing a skill check to damage multiplier by 1 is usually enough to rank a maneuver two levels higher.
Just compare the extra damage to Crystallized Silver's Weapon Freezer. Beyond silly.
I'm also confused why you even bother giving the illusion of the option of avoiding damage to die later anyway on top of now having the possibility of your resurrection becoming ambiguous at best. It is a lose-lose offer no matter how you turn it.
It also forces the DM to make calls for every enemy's murderous past, which basically gives him the right to say 'screw you' to the player by deciding they never got anyone killed after all even though the impression they'd give would inspire the contrary. Sounds like unnecessary book-keeping and the kind of effect that could be kept in the freezer until a discipline is made for a certain character that actually judges people based on their past deeds.
Death Price "Price of Life"Fine with it if not for the same distaste for the notion of increasing save DCs that will usually be scaling way too fast with a very high cap.
Soul SignSame as with Death Price "Price of Life".
Money from the YesterdayI'm not sure how the maths of this maneuvers somehow felt alright with you when you made it. Have you tried to imagine how it could be abused? The way you wrote it makes it the easiest thing in the world. If you cannot see the tip of the iceberg, I guess I'll just wait for the opportunity to give you a practical demonstration. The anti-heal effect on top makes it way better than it already is.
Haha. And I thought skill checks to damage was overpowered enough already. Honestly though, this maneuver would work only if DD was grossly nerfed.
Death Sign "Scythe that Chooses the Dead"So... with DD you can keep rerolling again and again until you hit the death attacks up to the DD uses initially paid?
I think you should follow the trend and have the death effect ignore undead immunity to it.
Since this is a death effect applying to multiple targets for a 7th level maneuver, it'd be better to have it be conditional on something. Like maybe having had a spirit detonated against the target on the previous round or something like that.
Spirits of the FirmAs Spirit Sign "Awakening of the Ancient Earthbound Spirits".
The spirits should also need an attack roll to hit or something like that. Especially if they have unlimited up and down movement to reach targets.
Hell "Narrow Confines of Avici"Seems like Light Cover "Nuclear Visor", but with a huge radius, a bunch of extra effects and a clunky 'force people inside by moving into them' mechanic that involves an horrendously long back and forth to determine where the guys being pushed around moves at every step you make in their direction.
It could a month just to determine where people are being pushed as you move toward them.
It could be more original an less difficult to figure out things happen if you removed the ambiguous concealment and just turned it into a battlefield aura where everything appears a tone or two more ghastly and you get Int mod to AC, saves and ability score checks equal to your Int mod against those currently affected by the aura. Get rid of the nauseating "you have to come in willingly but I can move at you until I push you against and obstacle to get you in anyway" thing and just put a save to leave the aura if they get in for a reason or another unless you move away from them enough to get them off the aura yourself.
Death Song "Ferriage in the Deep Fog"You're not gonna force people to roll up to your skill rank number will saves I hope. That is a lot of will saves for one maneuvers. No need to make this unnecessarily complicated. Permanent ill effect is also becoming extremely likely considering the sheer amount of saves implied.
The maneuver feels quite complete without adding DD on top of it.
Game of the SoulThis maneuver is slightly confusing. It takes effect when the creature dies, but
Other creatures that couldn't take a level of ghost must automatically start serving you if they fail their skill check unless
...so if a creature cannot become a ghost, it serves without having to die first? If so it puts a martial maneuver into the realm of spell-long dominations, which isn't a place we should be going. We can spam 8th level maneuvers as easily as we can spam 1st level maneuvers, so it is normal these effects shouldn't last longer than your typical encounter.
This maneuver also has a very Border of Life feel to it, and actually is rather similar to Limit of Life-Invitation to the Netherworld, but with an unreasonable duration.
How ghosts behave if the original creature didn't have a body to start with for Grave Bond is a little odd but that is more of a concern for how the Ghost class functions.
Death "Styx Retour"The initiation requirement is clunky as hell. Now we even have to define 'large body of water' for the purpose of game mechanics.
The area of the river it creature if gigantic. Having people stuck in its apparition area could be shunned across the map, which is ridiculous. The memory wipe feels like a high level strike maneuver that perpetually applies for free each round. Coupled with the size of the area, it feels a bit like the situation we had with the cloud of fiery death; Used indoors it is way too cheap if it lasts.
Then there is the flight killer without a save. Teleportation block is fine though.
Then it becomes truly ridiculous as dragon cohorts jump in one after another. WTF is going on.
They seem to have a preprogrammed action use sequence in that they attack anyone *in* the water, which includes your allies, which implies that the adept is not controlling them. If he is not controlling them, why should he build them.
So it yet again falls to the DM to be the one who chooses the skill ranks of feat selections for each of those dragons. No. Just no.
Make a generic dragon that can be made on the go with minimal thinking involved. Even the feat selections should be predetermined. There is also no limit to the amount of dragons cohorts that can fit in that river, it seems, except perhaps how long you can keep the stance going.
DD: There is already a new dragon popping in every round. It doubles them?
If at the end of each of your turns there's no sentient living creatures inside this Styx River segment (not counting inside your boat) besides Styx Dragons, you automatically exit this stance.
Why should the undead have an easier time dealing with this stance? And by inside the river segment, you mean within the actual water segment or does being over it also counts since you bothered to mention that the people in the boat didn't.
Death Sign "Scythe of Final Judgement"Range: one creature
Target: enemies inside the burst.
..What?
This maneuver is another 'judging maneuver' that could given to Shiki Eiki.
It involves keeping track of of everything a PC did since ever and if used on enemies it leaves it to the DM to decide if they ever did whatever they are accused of, which is poor form.
If you read some of the weather effects, you'll notice most of them have been tailored to be at the advantage of the adept even if the target succeeds on the save and benefits from them against him as well. Having nothing happen would be simpler than giving the illusion of fairness in both being affected by it.
Perhaps the maneuver would be better off representing how it is actually being depicted in SWR. She strikes the ground and destruction and death rains on people in the area.
