Author Topic: Wizard/Archivist  (Read 17388 times)

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2014, 09:21:53 AM »
Draconic archivist and archivist of nature feel like they are not really worth it.  Sure Dark Knowledge has some nice abilities, but by those levels, increasing your spell's effectiveness against all creatures seems like a better move.

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2014, 11:40:33 AM »
^ +1, though the stun ability might be a life saver. 

Honestly, if you're looking for BFC and buffing, Arcane and Archivist are going to give you a metric fuckton of options.  And, the party isn't too big, so you can still do some serious buffing without something like War Weaver. 

As far as suggestions, it'd be nice if you could find some alternative to Polymorph, as that's often a headache.  I'd also think you might want some sort of countering ability.  If you dipped Sacred Exorcist you could get Divine Defiance, for instance, or maybe find an equivalent to the Dampen Spell power.  My thinking is that the other PCs will, at some point, be pretty vulnerable to being laid low by the spells, spell-likes, and special abilities of the monsters, and it might be easier to counter them than chuck Panaceas and Revivifys.  You might also look into Spontaneous Healer as a way to take on a secondary healing schtick withough much cost.

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2014, 06:01:38 PM »
Draconic archivist and archivist of nature feel like they are not really worth it.  Sure Dark Knowledge has some nice abilities, but by those levels, increasing your spell's effectiveness against all creatures seems like a better move.
This was my initial instinct as well.  My thinking on this, however, is that while this would make my Dark Knowledge more generally useful (which is nice), but also helps to avoid the temptation to take something else that might cause me to accidentally break things.  And like    Unbeliever mentioned, being able to stun a dragon with a skill check is super sweet.  The other alternative I was thinking of is [Reserve] feats -- thoughts?

Honestly, if you're looking for BFC and buffing, Arcane and Archivist are going to give you a metric fuckton of options.  And, the party isn't too big, so you can still do some serious buffing without something like War Weaver. 
War Weaver was actually REALLY high on my list of considerations.  What caused me to discard that idea is that I don't want to over-complicate things for the other players (and for this group, that is a legitimate concern).

Quote
As far as suggestions, it'd be nice if you could find some alternative to Polymorph, as that's often a headache. 
As in how it invalidates BDFs? (I assume that's what you mean)  Well, Polymorph and Shapechange are banned; swapped out for PFs "fix".  But regardless, the only [polymorph] subschool spell I really care about is Alter Self, and that's simply for the boost I can get for turning in to a Tren. 
Quote
I'd also think you might want some sort of countering ability.  If you dipped Sacred Exorcist you could get Divine Defiance, for instance, or maybe find an equivalent to the Dampen Spell power.  My thinking is that the other PCs will, at some point, be pretty vulnerable to being laid low by the spells, spell-likes, and special abilities of the monsters, and it might be easier to counter them than chuck Panaceas and Revivifys.  You might also look into Spontaneous Healer as a way to take on a secondary healing schtick withough much cost.
Counter-spelling and Spontaneous Healing were both things that I thought about briefly.  I guess I'm just afraid of trying to too much and spread myself too thin.  But yeah, this makes sense.

Offline Vorpal_Bunny

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 07:00:55 PM »
War weaver might not complicate things if you can make your buff spells into little cards that you hand the players when you cast the buffs on them.  Just give them the basic information that they'll need, and then count off the duration remaining on your own, collecting the cards when they expire.

You can even get in to War Weaver as early as level 4 with an Illumian with the Improved Sigil (Krau) and Precocious Apprentice (assuming flaws), which would look like: Wizard 1/Archivist 2/War Weaver 5/Theurge Class 10/Other Theurge Class 2, which would give you casting as a 17th level Wizard and a 14th level Archivist.

Just an idea.

VB

Offline Aliek

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • You were hit by a DMG for uncountable dmg. Reroll.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2014, 09:43:34 AM »
Get polymorph any object as an archivist, the Reserves of Strength feat(either the liberal or the more conservative reading is fine for this) and turn into a black ethergaunt(Fiend Folio), for 17th level wizard casting and I think 34 int?

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 11:13:06 AM »
Get polymorph any object as an archivist, the Reserves of Strength feat(either the liberal or the more conservative reading is fine for this) and turn into a black ethergaunt(Fiend Folio), for 17th level wizard casting and I think 34 int?

Ahem

[snip] but also helps to avoid the temptation to take something else that might cause me to accidentally break things. [/snip]

It sounds like abusing PAO is not exactly what OP is looking for.

Offline Aliek

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • You were hit by a DMG for uncountable dmg. Reroll.
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 01:08:49 PM »
While that's probably true, it's still an option. Heck, if you're an Elan you can likely be permanently PAO'd without any of the "cast it twice for permanent" cheese. However it does come online late, and its only real saving grace is you keep full archivist spellcasting.

Accidentally breaking things... You could say that, yes. However since your spellcasting is tied to your form, you shouldn't be able to switch them at will, and dispel can be a big problem. If not for the high int, I don't see how this is any stronger than early entry into mystic theurge followed by some other theurge PrC. I guess at exactly level 17 it's better, but..?

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 06:50:35 PM »
I fully realize that this build is ripe for campaign breakage ..... I'm expected to nerf myself via spell selection -- I'm focusing it on bringing the other party members up to snuff and simple BFC.

Also .....
Well, Polymorph and Shapechange are banned; swapped out for PFs "fix".  But regardless, the only [polymorph] subschool spell I really care about is Alter Self, and that's simply for the boost I can get for turning in to a Tren. 
I should clarify ... except for Alter Self, the Core Polymorph chain is banned (and Alter Self is modified to only allow humanoid shapes, regardless of caster creature type). 
I'm only interested in the defensive value here (Nat AC, threaten adjacent, smelly).

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 10:43:59 AM »
You know what?  Screw Divination as a Focused Specialty School.  For regular specialty, it's fine; but to focus in it, (no that I've tried to put together a spellbook) there's just not enough there to warrant 3 spell slots per spell level.  F%ck.That.Sh!t.
So, a little reviso: I think I'm going Transmutation (yes, conjuration is more useful; but this is the only other one I can justify narratively).  Banned = evocation, enchantment, and necromancy.
Anyway, just thought I'd update.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2014, 03:18:10 PM »
You know what?  Screw Divination as a Focused Specialty School.  For regular specialty, it's fine; but to focus in it, (no that I've tried to put together a spellbook) there's just not enough there to warrant 3 spell slots per spell level.  F%ck.That.Sh!t.
So, a little reviso: I think I'm going Transmutation (yes, conjuration is more useful; but this is the only other one I can justify narratively).  Banned = evocation, enchantment, and necromancy.
Anyway, just thought I'd update.
If your DM will let you reserve those focused specialist slots for Uncanny Forethought, it can be fun (but of course most wouldn't...). :P
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2014, 03:23:06 AM »
 :lmao
Are you trying to get a DMG embedded into my head?

Our first session tonight, and our first combat encounter was vs. a BDF in full-plate .... apparently casting Grease and yelling "somebody bull-rush this sumbitch" ('cause this new batch of players aren't very strategically-minded) was enough to start the "DM-impotence dismay". 
Hey, we're only 5th level -- I've gotta conserve my spell slots. :D



Oh, and I decided last minute to swap out evocation for abjuration on my "banned" list ... because cleric spells.  The way I've got it figured, all I'm really missing out on is Alarm .... somehow, I'll cope.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2014, 09:54:22 AM »
At the higher levels, and with lots of splats, you will be missing more than that, but yeah, I've banned that school before.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2014, 11:18:23 AM »
Our first session tonight, and our first combat encounter was vs. a BDF in full-plate .... apparently casting Grease and yelling "somebody bull-rush this sumbitch" ('cause this new batch of players aren't very strategically-minded) was enough to start the "DM-impotence dismay". 
How do I put this nicely?  I don't know if I can, but ... is your DM just like spectacularly lacking in foresight?  Completely unaware of what a Wizard, let alone a Wizard/Archivist can do?  Or, is he or she like schizophrenic?  Because the brief Grease story related above sounds like this to me: 

"Please have the keys to this souped-up Ferrari."

"Oh no!  You drove more than 45 mph on the highway.  What will I do!"

This would drive me nuts.

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2014, 03:25:41 PM »
Our first session tonight, and our first combat encounter was vs. a BDF in full-plate .... apparently casting Grease and yelling "somebody bull-rush this sumbitch" ('cause this new batch of players aren't very strategically-minded) was enough to start the "DM-impotence dismay". 
How do I put this nicely?  I don't know if I can, but ... is your DM just like spectacularly lacking in foresight?  Completely unaware of what a Wizard, let alone a Wizard/Archivist can do?  Or, is he or she like schizophrenic?  Because the brief Grease story related above sounds like this to me: 

"Please have the keys to this souped-up Ferrari."

"Oh no!  You drove more than 45 mph on the highway.  What will I do!"

This would drive me nuts.
:lol

Well, it's not like he actually gets mad or anything; it's more like "alright J., it's your turn -- go ahead, show me something I forgot to account for".  He then feels myopic, takes his licks, learns some shit, and moves on.
He's pretty new to this whole DMing thing.  Hell, he's fairly noob when it comes to TTRPGs.  And he's a BDF-at-heart, to boot.  But he's learning.  We both chalk it up to him just earning his chops.  He's only briefly played 2 casters before: 1 duskblade, and 1 gestalt beguiler/warmage; and again, both of those were only briefly ..... point being, he doesn't exactly have a lot of experience with spell lists.
He's actually been explicitly appreciative of everything I've shown him about casters; and he does take notes.  And he never misses the same thing twice.

I mean, sure, I'm not all that experienced playing casters; but I have been DMing for the better part of 20 years, so I've a lot more chance to learn a thing or 2 about things.   (note: I don't count throwing a few spells as an NPC as actually "playing a caster")

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Wizard/Archivist
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2014, 06:00:47 PM »
He's actually been explicitly appreciative of everything I've shown him about casters; and he does take notes.  And he never misses the same thing twice.
Sounds like a fine young budding DM. :D
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.