Fun Finds v5.0

[SorO_Lost]

Whoa hold up people. Mouthpick doesn't bestow some super ultra attack ability. It allows you to hold a weapon using your mouth instead of a hand and grants proficiency. You're reading into things a little too far (and incorrectly).

A "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons" means a Monk's Unarmed Strike is perfectly formed to fit in a Beholder's mouth, and the Beholder has Weapon Proficiency(monk). Both of these are hilarious oddities, nothing more.

[Jackinthegreen]

That's far enough out there that you shouldn't have expected anyone to get it based on just "Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons."

[awaken_D_M_golem]

A "+1 Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons" means a Monk's Unarmed Strike is perfectly formed to fit in a Beholder's mouth, and the Beholder has Weapon Proficiency(monk). Both of these are hilarious oddities, nothing more.

Uhh, how is this a problem for an aberration originating from The Far Realms Of Insanity ?
 
Fluff it with Charm Monster eye, some Wonder Twins teamwork, and the Ambiguious SNL superheroes.
It's kinda like Dwarf Tossing without the "tossing" part.
(I'm not saying there's functional raw game rules available, or not quite)

[BearsAreBrown]

Whoa hold up people. Mouthpick doesn't bestow some super ultra attack ability. It allows you to hold a weapon using your mouth instead of a hand and grants proficiency. You're reading into things a little too far (and incorrectly).

ok good im glad that doesn't work because it's insane. i clearly don't remember mouthpick well.

eh, i'm around, just not playing (or posting) much anymore. moved and I don't have a group.

[SorO_Lost]

That's far enough out there that you shouldn't have expected anyone to get it based on just "Mouthpick Amulet of Natural Weapons."

I suppose not.

Reminder for everyone.
1. Natural Weapons do not gain iterative attacks.
2. Creatures, not weapons, gain iterative attacks and can use Manufactured/Unarmed Weapons to deliver them.
3. During a Full-Attack you can make your iterative attacks & follow up with your Natural Weapons, however you cannot use the limb that delivered the iterative attacks and they are all treated as Secondary Natural Weapons.
Example, Kobold Fighter 6 has two Primary Claws, a Secondary Bite, and is holding a Longsword. He can attack twice with a Longsword, once with a Bite, and once with a Claw. The Claw is treated as Secondary so it's made at a -5 penalty and he only applies 1/2 his Str Bonus rather than the normal Attack/Damage bonuses associated with his Claw.

A 12 Headed-Hydra with a Mouthpick Longsword makes 3 attacks using his Longsword and eleven Bite Attacks. However, those Bites now have -5 to Attack and deal 2d8+3. It's a net loss really. You'd need something like Kaorti Resin, Greater Magic Weapon, and per intent Multi-Weapon Fighting to get a decent return out of it. It's cheaper just to slice some heads off so it has 24 Bite Attacks imho.

[zook1shoe]

Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?

[SorO_Lost]

Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?

Yes, but only if you don't want to use Rage

Trident of Serenity (FR:RoF): blocks rage, and frenzy. Give it to a party member you don't want to kill.

[Keldar]

Great, I now have an image of a Hydra with a Vorpal Mouthpick longsword "buffing" itself up for a big fight stuck in my head.  Snicker Snack, it gets two heads back.

[Unbeliever]

fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

[Jackinthegreen]

fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.

[ksbsnowowl]

Trident of Serenity (Races of FR) suppresses rage-like abilities w/in 15ft. It doesn't mention that it must be held/wielded to be active. Couldn't you just have Armor Spikes of Serenity?

Interesting.  I was planning to place a Marilith up against my 18th level party soon.  One of her weapons will now be this Trident (blame it on the cover art for FC1 - she has four swords, an axe, and something like a two-pronged spear or trident).

Would be a nice, cheap thing for a party with a Frenzied Berserker to have kept in a handy haversack.  Pull it out as a move action once the bad guys are nearly dead, so he doesn't start slaughtering the party.  Not a perfect solution, but not a terrible one, either.

[Chemus]

weapon using creatures have a primary "hand" with which they get iterative attacks. They have the same attack penalties that two handed creatures have when using two weapons, mitigated by multi weapon fighting, and perhaps multi dexterity. The only improved/greater MWF I find are in Deities & Demigods, and appear to be for deities only.

So, it appears that Soro's contention that you should just use a single mouth pick weapon, or even just cut off the heads to double attacks, is correct.

Edit: whoops, there I go again, shooting off my mouth. Ettin, for one, get iteratives for each head/hand combo. There may be rules in place that do the same for hydrae. If so, then Jack's argument is the correct one. Because of the hydra's heads.

(I think that, generally, we need to use more words for clarity; that way we know what we're arguing exactly)

[Jackinthegreen]

Improved MWF and Greater MWF are also found in the Epic Level Handbook (and SRD) and are specifically listed as non-epic feats that anything can take if it meets the prereqs.

Yes, there's the Dex requirements, but items and/or buffs can sort that out.

[Unbeliever]

fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.

Ah crap, I was totally misunderstanding Rapidstrike.  Which is good to know.  For some reason I thought it was an extra attack with each of your natural weapons (i.e., Claw/Claw becomes Claw/Claw/Claw-5/Claw-5), but I was totally wrong.  Maybe I was getting it mixed up with multiweapon fighting or something. 

Thanks for the correction.

[zook1shoe]

Legacy Champion + variant Uncanny Trickster = infinite feats

x 7/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 7

when you gain your 8th level of Legacy Champion, choose to advance Uncanny Trickster, which you then advance Legacy Champion, etc.

---

What happens to a creature inside a Wicker Man when Incarnate Construct is cast on the construct?

[phaedrusxy]

fwiw, Rapidstrike seems much  more efficient than all these mouthpick shenanigans.  Amusement notwithstanding.

Regular rapidstrike only grants a single extra attack, as noted with the words "you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a —5 penalty."  Improved Rapidstrike only allows iteratives with one, not all attacks, as noted with the wording "you can make two or more extra attacks with one of those weapons, the first at a —5 penalty and the second and subsequent attacks at an additional —5, but never more than four extra attacks."

Let's compare:  Rapidstrike has a BAB req of +10, so we'll go with a 10-headed hydra.  With Rapidstrike it gets 10 bites at +10, and another at +5 for a total of 11 attacks.  Give that same hydra mouthpick weapons and its routine is 10x +10 / 10x +5 for a total of 20 attacks.  Bump it up one head for another BAB and the rapidstrike hydra has 12 attacks versus the Mouthpick hydra who just got extra iteratives and now has 30 attacks.

It's a comparison of taking one feat for one extra attack (or two feats for up to 4 extra) instead of taking a specific class and then spending a bunch of XP to enchant weapons to get scaling multiples of attacks.  In the long run I'd say the mouthpick option ends up being more efficient given how its gains are at least an order of magnitude greater without spending an order of magnitude more on creating the character overall.

Ah crap, I was totally misunderstanding Rapidstrike.  Which is good to know.  For some reason I thought it was an extra attack with each of your natural weapons (i.e., Claw/Claw becomes Claw/Claw/Claw-5/Claw-5), but I was totally wrong.  Maybe I was getting it mixed up with multiweapon fighting or something. 

Thanks for the correction.

I've seen this exact (incorrect) interpretation thrown around on the boards for quite some time now. So it's not just you.

[Sinfire Titan]

Legacy Champion + variant Uncanny Trickster = infinite feats

x 7/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 7

when you gain your 8th level of Legacy Champion, choose to advance Uncanny Trickster, which you then advance Legacy Champion, etc.

You'd have to select Uncanny Trickster from LC 2 in order to do that. It may work pre-Epic because of that, but it may get books thrown at you no matter what.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

What?
How does this work, like a for-dummies version?

[Jackinthegreen]

Uncanny Trickster has a variant where instead of granting skill tricks it grants feats.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Got it ... so ... why LC level 8 bonus feat, instead of the level 4 one?


(I'm guessing that dndtools doesn't have some of the language/text.)