Help me make this encounter challenging.

[ketaro]

There are these things called Mythals in Lost Kingdoms of Faerun, page 45. They're basically comparable to massive field buff areas that do a great number of fancy shmancy things.

• Set offensive spells to trigger against targets within the area every round.
• Set buff spells to be permanently applied to targets within the area that last until the area is left.
• Grant creatures within the area access to casting specific spells built into the area.
• ECT ECT ECT

They're just damn magical is what they is. Just to make them even cooler, you can actually set very specific permissions about who can use what within the area. Creatures you've 'marked' or a specific type of creature can be made immune to any spell 'cast' by the Mythal (So you don't need to worry about friendly fire AoEs). You can also 'mark' either specific creatures or choose a type of creature (prolly Giants here?) to be the only ones benefiting from the granted buffs of the Mythal. You can also designate who is allowed to cast the spells that the Mythal can grant to the creatures within, even making each different granted spell (if there are multiples) having it's own set of permissions~

I believe you can even just straight up ban entire species of creatures from entering the area, too. But that's likely not a feature you'd be too interested in right now :/

Sure stuff can still be counterspelled or dispelled, but the Mythal itself can not be and thus could just recast/regrant buffs or offensive spells next round. Automatic defense system for the win?

Mind you, except for the page number, I'm just relaying all this info from memory and it might not be entirely accurate, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty close if not.

OH! Last but not least (and probably not actually last), a Mythal is even capable of preventing entire schools of magic from being cast within it's boundaries. Not only something like banning, say, Illusion, but you could even make it more specific (I believe) to ban spell descriptors like [Death] or [Cold] (cause fire giants) only or whatever you want. 

Um, for my closing statement, they are technically Epic Magic. But you can employ them well enough in 'non-epic' ways simply to beef up an encounter, probably.
And if you decide it's just too much (hopefully after looking over them first? ), then maybe it's something you could use in the future! ^^

[Raineh Daze]

Dear god, mythals. THE most insane magical  item EVER.

[ksbsnowowl]

Yeah, I'll stay away from the Mythals.  Since I don't use Epic Spellcasting in my game they can't technically exist anyway.

[symisin]

vampire harassment is always a pain to deal with

[CaptRory]

You could create something like that as a Fire Giant Artifact. It only works for creatures with the Fire subtype or something. I'm jut spitballing.

[Keldar]

Legendary Fire Giant

(click to show/hide)

      Legendary Fire Giant (Titan)
Size/Type:     Huge Outsider (Fire, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice:    20d8+280 (370 hp)
Initiative:    +1
Speed:    40 ft. in half plate (8 squares); base speed 60 ft.
Armor Class:    37 (-2 size, +19 natural, +10 +3 half plate), touch 8, flat-footed 37
Base Attack/Grapple:    +20/+44
Attack:    Huge MW Greatsword +35 melee (4d6+24 [19-20/×2]) or
         Rock +19 ranged (2d8+16) or slam +34 melee (1d8+16)
      Leap Attack (-5) +32* melee (4d6+39 [19-20/x2])   *+2 for charging included
Full Attack:    Huge MW Greatsword +35/+30/+25/+20 melee (4d6+24 [19-20/×2]) or
         Rock +19 ranged (2d8+16) or 2 slams +34 melee (1d8+16)
Space/Reach:    15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks:    Rock throwing
Special Qualities:    Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, immunity to fire, rock catching, vulnerability to cold
Saves:    Fort +26, Ref +13, Will +22
Abilities:    Str 43, Dex 12, Con 39, Int 21, Wis 28, Cha 24
Skills:       Balance +7, Bluff +19, Climb +22, Concentration +37, Craft (any one) +28, Diplomacy +11, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Hide -8, Heal +20, Intimidate +32, Jump +37 (+51 unarmored), Knowledge (any one) +28, Listen +32, Perform (oratory) +30, Sense Motive +32, Search +28, Spellcraft +17, Spot +32, Survival +9 (+11 following tracks), Swim +16
Feats:    Blind-Fight, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment
Environment:    Muspelheim
Organization:    Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating:    16
Treasure:    Standard coins; double goods; standard items (plus +3 half plate, and MW greatsword)
Alignment:    Usually lawful evil
Advancement:    21-30 HD (Huge); 31-60 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment:    —

A legendary fire giant titan is about 25 feet tall and weighs about 14,000 pounds.
Legendary fire giant titans speak Infernal, Common, Celestial, Draconic, and Giant.

Combat
Giant Blood (Ex):  For all effects related to race, a Muspelheim Fire Giant is considered a giant.
Rock Throwing (Ex):  The range increment is 120 feet for a fire giant's thrown rocks.

Mage Slayer:  Spellcasters you threaten may not cast defensively (they automatically fail their Concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensively while being threatened by you.
Pierce Magical Concealment:  Your fierce contempt for magic allows you to disregard the miss chance granted by spells or spell-like abilities such as darkness, blur, invisibility, obscuring mist, ghostform, and spells when used to create concealment effects (such as permanent image used to fill a corridor with illusory fire and smoke). In addition, when facing a creature protected by mirror image, you can immediately pick out the real creature from its figments. Your ability to ignore the miss chance granted by magical concealment doesn't grant you any ability to ignore nonmagical concealment.

Well now, aren't Mirror Image and Greater Invisibility just plum useless against him now.     I guess if someone actually bothered trying to move silently he'd have a wee bit of trouble finding the right spot to smash.

You should consider adding Flaming to the weapon.  Not because it will do anything to your resistant PCs, but because the visual adds awesome.
Muspelheim Flame (Su): Any weapon being wielded by a Legendary Fire Giant temporarily gains the flaming property.  Other creatures cannot benefit from this effect.

[ksbsnowowl]

Legendary Fire Giant

(click to show/hide)

      Legendary Fire Giant (Titan)
Size/Type:     Huge Outsider (Fire, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice:    20d8+280 (370 hp)
Initiative:    +1
Speed:    40 ft. in half plate (8 squares); base speed 60 ft.
Armor Class:    37 (-2 size, +19 natural, +10 +3 half plate), touch 8, flat-footed 37
Base Attack/Grapple:    +20/+44
Attack:    Huge MW Greatsword +35 melee (4d6+24 [19-20/×2]) or
         Rock +19 ranged (2d8+16) or slam +34 melee (1d8+16)
      Leap Attack (-5) +32* melee (4d6+39 [19-20/x2])   *+2 for charging included
Full Attack:    Huge MW Greatsword +35/+30/+25/+20 melee (4d6+24 [19-20/×2]) or
         Rock +19 ranged (2d8+16) or 2 slams +34 melee (1d8+16)
Space/Reach:    15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks:    Rock throwing
Special Qualities:    Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, immunity to fire, rock catching, vulnerability to cold
Saves:    Fort +26, Ref +13, Will +22
Abilities:    Str 43, Dex 12, Con 39, Int 21, Wis 28, Cha 24
Skills:       Balance +7, Bluff +19, Climb +22, Concentration +37, Craft (any one) +28, Diplomacy +11, Disguise +7 (+9 acting), Hide -8, Heal +20, Intimidate +32, Jump +37 (+51 unarmored), Knowledge (any one) +28, Listen +32, Perform (oratory) +30, Sense Motive +32, Search +28, Spellcraft +17, Spot +32, Survival +9 (+11 following tracks), Swim +16
Feats:    Blind-Fight, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment
Environment:    Muspelheim
Organization:    Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating:    16
Treasure:    Standard coins; double goods; standard items (plus +3 half plate, and MW greatsword)
Alignment:    Usually lawful evil
Advancement:    21-30 HD (Huge); 31-60 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment:    —

A legendary fire giant titan is about 25 feet tall and weighs about 14,000 pounds.
Legendary fire giant titans speak Infernal, Common, Celestial, Draconic, and Giant.

Combat
Giant Blood (Ex):  For all effects related to race, a Muspelheim Fire Giant is considered a giant.
Rock Throwing (Ex):  The range increment is 120 feet for a fire giant's thrown rocks.

Mage Slayer:  Spellcasters you threaten may not cast defensively (they automatically fail their Concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensively while being threatened by you.
Pierce Magical Concealment:  Your fierce contempt for magic allows you to disregard the miss chance granted by spells or spell-like abilities such as darkness, blur, invisibility, obscuring mist, ghostform, and spells when used to create concealment effects (such as permanent image used to fill a corridor with illusory fire and smoke). In addition, when facing a creature protected by mirror image, you can immediately pick out the real creature from its figments. Your ability to ignore the miss chance granted by magical concealment doesn't grant you any ability to ignore nonmagical concealment.

Well now, aren't Mirror Image and Greater Invisibility just plum useless against him now.     I guess if someone actually bothered trying to move silently he'd have a wee bit of trouble finding the right spot to smash.

You should consider adding Flaming to the weapon.  Not because it will do anything to your resistant PCs, but because the visual adds awesome.
Muspelheim Flame (Su): Any weapon being wielded by a Legendary Fire Giant temporarily gains the flaming property.  Other creatures cannot benefit from this effect.

Oooo... that's not a bad plan.  Effectively useless against a prepared party (which mine usually is), but nice and thematic.

[ksbsnowowl]

Primordial Fire Giant Wizard 10/Geometer 5

(click to show/hide)

As above, this one is probably short skill points due to the increased intelligence.  For the 10th level of Wizard, I put 8 ranks into Concentration.

Velbryn Morlydd       CR 17
hp: 255 (30 HD)
-------------------------------------------------------
Male primordial fire giant wizard 10/geometer 5
NE Large giant (fire)
Init: +5; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +2, Spot +13
Languages: Common, Draconic, Giant
-------------------------------------------------------
AC: 28, touch 14, flat-footed 27
    (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 armor, +3 deflection, +1 insight, +10 natural)
Immune: fire, giant immunities
Fort +18, Ref +10, Will +19
Weakness: vulnerability to cold, giant vulnerabilities
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Melee: MW longsword +26/+21/+16/+11 (2d6+12/19–20) or
    MW longsword +26/+21/+16/+11 (2d6+8/19–20) and slam +20 (1d4+4) or
Melee: 2 slams +25 each (1d4+8)
Ranged: +1 composite longbow +19 (2d6+10)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach: 10 ft.
Base Atk: +18; Grp: +30
Atk Options: Awesome Blow, Energy Substitution (cold), Improved Bull Rush,
   Power Attack
Special Actions: rock catching, rock throwing
Combat Gear: 2 potions of cure serious wounds, scroll of telekinesis, scroll of tongues,
   wand of rope trick (25 charges), Scroll of Limited Wish (x2), Scroll of Chained
   Power Word Disable, Scroll of Rapid Energy Transformation Field (Delayed Blast Fireball),
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 19th); Save DC's 19 + spell level:
Spells per Day: (4/6/6/6/6/5/4/3/2)
*Spells marked with an asterisk have spellglyphs, and can be cast at CL 20 and as though affected by the Silent Spell feat.
8th—blackfire (+19 ranged touch), irresistible dance
7th—spell turning, sword of darkness*, limited wish
6th—disintegrate*, globe of invulnerability*,
   greater dispel magic*, stone body
5th—arc of (cold) lightning*, true haste, teleport*,
   transmute mud to rock, telekinesis, dominate person
4th—greater invisibility*, fire shield, polymorph self*,
   dimension door*, greater mirror image*, wall of fire
3rd—displacement*, haste*, fly, protection from energy,
   remove curse*, gaseous form*
2nd—cat’s grace, detect thoughts*, glitterdust,
   wraithstrike*, see invisibility*, resist energy
1st—endure elements*, grease, hail of stone*,
   silent image, magic missile*, magic missile, shield*
0—detect magic*, prestidigitation*, ray of frost*
   (+19 ranged touch), read magic*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 28 (24), Wis 16, Cha 14
SQ: book of geometry, giant traits, pass sigil, powerful spellglyph, sigilsight
SA: SLA - at will - Invisibility Purge (CL 16th).
Feats: Awesome Blow, Combat Casting, Elder Giant Magic, Energy Substitution (cold),
   Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Chain Spell, Sudden Widen Spell*, Power Attack,
   Practiced Spellcaster, Rapid Spell, Scribe Scroll*, Sudden Maximize Spell*, Silent Spell
Skills: Bluff +7, Climb +13, Concentration +26 (+30 when casting defensively), Decipher Script +22,
   Diplomacy +13, Disable Device +13, Disguise +2 (+4 when acting), Intimidate +9, Jump +17,
   Knowledge (arcana) +22, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +14, Listen +2, Search +16,
   Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +26, Spot +13, Survival +3 (+5 when following tracks)
Possessions: combat gear plus +1 composite longbow (+9 Str bonus) with 40 arrows,
   amulet of natural armor +2 & health +2, bracers of armor +4, Scroll of Limited Wish (x2), Scroll of Chained
   Power Word Disable, Scroll of Rapid Energy Transformation Field (Delayed Blast Fireball),
   ring of protection +3, headband of intellect +4, ioun stone (dusty rose), bag of holding (type I),
   highly polished silver mirror for scrying spell, spellglyph inks, 160 pp, 10 gp
Spellbook: spells prepared plus 0—all;
1st—benign transpostion, charm person, comprehend languages, disguise self,
   swift expeditious retreat, protection from good, true strike, unseen servant;
2nd—bull’s strength, mirror image, rope trick, whispering wind, hold person;
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, gaseous form, tongues, glyph of warding;
4th—locate creature, scrying;
5th—dominate person, passwall, telekinesis, vitriolic sphere;
6th—disintegrate, geas/quest, greater glyph of warding, true seeing, stone body;
7th—delayed blast fireball, limited wish, spell turning
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book of Geometry (Ex): Every spell Valbryn learns requires only a single page in her
   spellbook. It still takes 24 hours to write each spell into her book and requires
   materials costing 100 gp per page. In addition, the DC of Spellcraft checks for
   a nongeometer to decipher or prepare spells from Valbryn’s spellbook is
   increased by 5.
Pass Sigil (Su): Valbryn can temporarily negate magical wards based on written symbols,
   sigils, runes, or glyphs. As a standard action, she can make a caster level check
   (DC 6 + the sigil creator’s caster level). If successful, she can suppress the
   effects of the device for as long as she maintains concentration. Valbryn must
   be able to see the device.
Sigilsight (Ex): Valbryn can use a Search check to find magic traps based on runes,
   glyphs, sigils, symbols, and other writing, as a rogue can. She gains a +11
   bonus on Search checks to find traps of this sort. If she comes within 10 feet
   of a magic rune, glyph, sigil, or symbol, or within the threshold of danger for
   such a device, she is entitled to make a Search check as if she were actively
   searching for a magic trap.
Spellglyph (Su): Valbryn can cast spells using spellglyphs. Such spells have a special
   material component (the spellglyph) that substitutes for the spell’s verbal component
   and any other material components it might normally require. When Valbryn casts a
   spell using a spellglyph, the spell is treated as if it were affected by the Silent Spell
   feat.

Mysterious Magic or Echoing Spell (both from Secrests of Xen'drik) would be alright choices for the 30th HD feat in place of Silent Spell, but the silent spell may be more immediately useful.

He had six rounds to prep:
Round 1: Scroll of Chained Power Word Disable
Round 2: Scroll of Limited Wish -> Consumptive Field
Round 3: Cat's Grace; command dominated human slaves to stab other slaves
Round 4: True Haste
Round 5: Stone Body; Fire Shield
Round 6: Shield; Spell Turning
Round 7: Displacement; Scroll of Rapid Energy Transformation Field (Delayed Blast Fireball)
Round 8: Globe of Invulnerability; Engage PC's

Primordial Fire Giant Wizard 10/Geometer 5 (with buff spells applied)

(click to show/hide)

Buff Spells: Stone Body, Cat's Grace, True Haste, Shield

Velbryn Morlydd       CR 17
hp: 255 (30 HD)            DR 10/Adamantine
-------------------------------------------------------
Male primordial fire giant wizard 10/geometer 5
NE Large giant (fire)
Init: +5; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +2, Spot +13
Languages: Common, Draconic, Giant
-------------------------------------------------------
AC: 36, touch 18, flat-footed 35
    (–1 size, +1 Dex, +4 armor, +4 shield, +4 haste, +3 deflection, +1 insight, +10 natural)
Immune: fire, giant immunities
Fort +18, Ref +10, Will +19
Weakness: vulnerability to cold, giant vulnerabilities
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Melee: MW longsword +28/+23/+18/+13 (2d6+15/19–20) or
    MW longsword +28/+23/+18/+13 (2d6+10/19–20) and slam +22 (1d4+5) or
Melee: 2 slams +27 each (1d4+10)
Ranged: +1 composite longbow +19 (2d6+10)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach: 10 ft.
Base Atk: +18; Grp: +32
Atk Options: Awesome Blow, Energy Substitution (cold), Improved Bull Rush,
   Power Attack
Special Actions: rock catching, rock throwing
Combat Gear: 2 potions of cure serious wounds, scroll of telekinesis, scroll of tongues,
   wand of rope trick (25 charges), Scroll of Limited Wish (x2), Scroll of Chained
   Power Word Disable, Scroll of Rapid Energy Transformation Field (Delayed Blast Fireball),
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 19th); Save DC's 19 + spell level:
Spells per Day: (4/6/6/6/6/5/4/3/2)
*Spells marked with an asterisk have spellglyphs, and can be cast at CL 20 and as though affected by the Silent Spell feat.
8th—blackfire (+19 ranged touch), irresistible dance
7th—spell turning, sword of darkness*, limited wish
6th—disintegrate*, globe of invulnerability*,
   greater dispel magic*, stone body
5th—arc of (cold) lightning*, true haste, teleport*,
   transmute mud to rock, telekinesis, dominate person
4th—greater invisibility*, fire shield, polymorph self*,
   dimension door*, greater mirror image*, wall of fire
3rd—displacement*, haste*, fly, protection from energy,
   remove curse*, gaseous form*
2nd—cat’s grace, detect thoughts*, glitterdust,
   wraithstrike*, see invisibility*, resist energy
1st—endure elements*, grease, hail of stone*,
   silent image, magic missile*, magic missile, shield*
0—detect magic*, prestidigitation*, ray of frost*
   (+19 ranged touch), read magic*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 28 (24), Wis 16, Cha 14
SQ: book of geometry, giant traits, pass sigil, powerful spellglyph, sigilsight
SA: SLA - at will - Invisibility Purge (CL 16th).
Feats: Awesome Blow, Combat Casting, Elder Giant Magic, Energy Substitution (cold),
   Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Chain Spell, Sudden Widen Spell*, Power Attack,
   Practiced Spellcaster, Rapid Spell, Scribe Scroll*, Sudden Maximize Spell*, Silent Spell
Skills: Bluff +7, Climb +15, Concentration +26 (+30 when casting defensively), Decipher Script +22,
   Diplomacy +13, Disable Device +13, Disguise +2 (+4 when acting), Intimidate +9, Jump +19,
   Knowledge (arcana) +22, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +14, Listen +2, Search +16,
   Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +26, Spot +13, Survival +3 (+5 when following tracks)
Possessions: combat gear plus +1 composite longbow (+9 Str bonus) with 40 arrows,
   amulet of natural armor +2 & health +2, bracers of armor +4, Scroll of Limited Wish (x2), Scroll of Chained
   Power Word Disable, Scroll of Rapid Energy Transformation Field (Delayed Blast Fireball),
   ring of protection +3, headband of intellect +4, ioun stone (dusty rose), bag of holding (type I),
   highly polished silver mirror for scrying spell, spellglyph inks, 160 pp, 10 gp
Spellbook: spells prepared plus 0—all;
1st—benign transpostion, charm person, comprehend languages, disguise self,
   swift expeditious retreat, protection from good, true strike, unseen servant;
2nd—bull’s strength, mirror image, rope trick, whispering wind, hold person;
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, gaseous form, tongues, glyph of warding;
4th—locate creature, scrying;
5th—dominate person, passwall, telekinesis, vitriolic sphere;
6th—disintegrate, geas/quest, greater glyph of warding, true seeing, stone body;
7th—delayed blast fireball, limited wish, spell turning
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book of Geometry (Ex): Every spell Valbryn learns requires only a single page in her
   spellbook. It still takes 24 hours to write each spell into her book and requires
   materials costing 100 gp per page. In addition, the DC of Spellcraft checks for
   a nongeometer to decipher or prepare spells from Valbryn’s spellbook is
   increased by 5.
Pass Sigil (Su): Valbryn can temporarily negate magical wards based on written symbols,
   sigils, runes, or glyphs. As a standard action, she can make a caster level check
   (DC 6 + the sigil creator’s caster level). If successful, she can suppress the
   effects of the device for as long as she maintains concentration. Valbryn must
   be able to see the device.
Sigilsight (Ex): Valbryn can use a Search check to find magic traps based on runes,
   glyphs, sigils, symbols, and other writing, as a rogue can. She gains a +11
   bonus on Search checks to find traps of this sort. If she comes within 10 feet
   of a magic rune, glyph, sigil, or symbol, or within the threshold of danger for
   such a device, she is entitled to make a Search check as if she were actively
   searching for a magic trap.
Spellglyph (Su): Valbryn can cast spells using spellglyphs. Such spells have a special
   material component (the spellglyph) that substitutes for the spell’s verbal component
   and any other material components it might normally require. When Valbryn casts a
   spell using a spellglyph, the spell is treated as if it were affected by the Silent Spell
   feat.

Helthra's buffs:
Round 1: Consumptive Field
Round 2: Shield of Faith
Round 3: Spell Resistance (SR 27)
Round 4: Divine Power
Round 5: Righteous Might
Round 6: Divine Favor

Fire Giant Cleric 10

(click to show/hide)

Helthra Morlydd          CR 15
hp 262 (25 HD)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Female fire giant cleric 10
LE Large giant (fire)
Init: +5; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +5, Spot +17
Languages: Common, Giant
--------------------------------------------------------------
AC: 29, touch 10, flat-footed 28 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +11 armor, +8 natural)
Shield of Faith AC: 33, touch 14, flat-footed 32 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +11 armor, +4 deflection, +8 natural)
Immune: fire, giant immunities
Fort +22, Ref +9, Will +17   (SR 26)
Weakness: vulnerability to cold, giant vulnerabilities
-------------------------------------------------------------
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); Base speed 40 ft.
Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +32/+27/+22/+17 (2d6+20 [17-20/x2] plus 1d6 fire)
Divine Power Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +39/+34/+29/+24 (2d6+24 [17–20/×2] plus 1d6 fire) or
DP & Div Fav Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +42/+37/+32/+27 (2d6+27 [17–20/×2] plus 1d6 fire) or
Melee: 2 slams +31 each (1d4+12) (1d4+14)
Ranged: rock +32 (2d6+12 plus 2d6 fire) (2d6+14 plus 2d6 fire)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach: 10 ft.
Base Atk: +18; Grp: +34 (+36 bull's str)
Atk Options: Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Power Attack
Special Actions: command undead 4/day (1d20+1, 2d6+7, 6th), rock catching, rock throwing
Combat Gear: 2 potions of lesser restoration, wand of cure moderate wounds (30 charges)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 14th, casts as a Cleric 10); Save DC's 15 + spell level:
Spells per Day: (6/6+1/5+1/4+1/4+1/3+1)
5th—dispel chaos, righteous might, spell resistance (SR 26), fire shield*
4th—air walk, consumptive field, freedom of movement, dimensional anchor, divine power*
3rd—magic vestment*, dispel magic, protection from energy, invisibility purge, mass lesser vigor
2nd—bull’s strength, spiritual weapon*, deific vengeance, spiritual weapon (2), silence
1st—burning hands*, comprehend languages, divine favor (2), obscuring mist, shield of faith, lesser vigor
0—cure minor wounds (2), detect magic, purify food and drink, read magic, mending
Domains: Fire, War
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: Str 34 (40 with divine power), Dex 12, Con 22 (18), Int 10, Wis 21, Cha 12
SQ: giant traits
Feats: Brutal Throw, Combat Casting, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (longsword), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Practiced Spellcaster, Weapon Focus (longsword)*
Skills: Climb +15, Concentration +13 (+17 when casting defensively), Hide +2, Intimidate +13, Jump +15 (+24 unarmored), Listen +5, Move Silently +2, Spot +17
Possessions: combat gear plus +3 shadow silent moves full plate, +2 adamantine flaming longsword, amulet of health +4, silver holy symbol, noble’s outfit, 18 pp, 5 gp

Righteous Might
Helthra Morlydd          CR 15
hp 287 (25 HD)        DR 6/Good
---------------------------------------------------------------
Female fire giant cleric 10
LE Huge giant (fire)
Init: +5; Senses: darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +5, Spot +17
Languages: Common, Giant
--------------------------------------------------------------
AC: 30, touch 9, flat-footed 29 (–2 size, +1 Dex, +11 armor, +10 natural)
Shield of Faith AC: 34, touch 13, flat-footed 33 (–2 size, +1 Dex, +11 armor, +4 deflection, +10 natural)
Immune: fire, giant immunities
Fort +23, Ref +9, Will +17
Weakness: vulnerability to cold, giant vulnerabilities
-------------------------------------------------------------
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); Base speed 40 ft.
Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +33/+28/+23/+18 (3d6+23 [17-20/x2] plus 1d6 fire)
Divine Power Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +40/+35/+30/+25 (2d6+25 [17–20/×2] plus 1d6 fire) or
DP & Div Fav Melee: +2 adamantine flaming longsword +43/+38/+33/+28 (2d6+28 [17–20/×2] plus 1d6 fire) or
Melee: 2 slams +32 each (1d6+14) (1d4+16)
Ranged: rock +33 (2d6+14 plus 2d6 fire) (2d6+16 plus 2d6 fire)
Space: 15 ft.; Reach: 15 ft.
Base Atk: +18; Grp: +40 (+42 bull's str)
Atk Options: Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Power Attack
Special Actions: command undead 4/day (1d20+1, 2d6+7, 6th), rock catching, rock throwing
Combat Gear: 2 potions of lesser restoration, wand of cure moderate wounds (30 charges)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 14th, casts as a Cleric 10); Save DC's 15 + spell level:
Spells per Day: (6/6+1/5+1/4+1/4+1/3+1)
5th—dispel chaos, righteous might, spell resistance (SR 26), fire shield*
4th—air walk, consumptive field, freedom of movement, dimensional anchor, divine power*
3rd—magic vestment*, dispel magic, protection from energy, ring of blades, mass lesser vigor
2nd—bull’s strength, spiritual weapon*, deific vengeance, spiritual weapon (2), silence
1st—burning hands*, comprehend languages, divine favor (2), obscuring mist, shield of faith, lesser vigor
0—cure minor wounds (2), detect magic, purify food and drink, read magic, mending
Domains: Fire, War
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: Str 38 (44 with divine power), Dex 12, Con 24 (20), Int 10, Wis 21, Cha 12
SQ: giant traits
Feats: Awesome Blow, Brutal Throw, Combat Casting, Elder Giant Magic, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (longsword), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Practiced Spellcaster, Weapon Focus (longsword)*
Skills: Climb +17, Concentration +14 (+18 when casting defensively), Hide -2, Intimidate +13, Jump +17 (+26 unarmored), Listen +5, Move Silently +2, Spot +17
Possessions: combat gear plus +3 shadow silent moves full plate, +2 adamantine flaming greataxe, amulet of health +4, silver holy symbol, noble’s outfit, 18 pp, 5 gp

[ksbsnowowl]

A big thanks to everyone who helped me with ideas.  The BBEG's coming in at the conclusion of the previous encounter (we started the session with one more Fire Giant Clr 6/Ftr 2 still standing at ~150 hp's) completely caught my players off-guard.
First the buffed up Cleric 10 came in and got a chance to hear from the surviving cleric/fighter that there were invisible foes lurking about.  So he cast Invisibility Purge which made at least the War-Troll polymorphed Barb//Beguiler visible, if not also the Rogue//Wizard.

The the Legendary Fire Giant titan approached from down a long tunnel.  He spent his turn double moving to get on the map, and so the Beguiler's Mindsight only detected him that very turn.  The PC's also started hearing screams from down another tunnel, as the BBEG wizard's dominated slaves continued to stab Disabled prisoners.

They beat on the clerics a bit more, then the Legendary Fire Giant Leap Attacked the War-Troll-Formed Barb//Beguiler, dealing a good chunk of damage to him, and surprising them with his ability to ignore the mirror images.

Either the Wizard or the Beguiler dispelled the invisibility purge, and then they all spent their remaining actions (all are under the effects of True Haste, which is basically 3.0 Haste) beating on the two clerics, and not moving, confident in the ability of their renewed invisibility to save them.  The Druid//Sorcerer tagged the Legendary Fire Giant with a creeping cold.  Then the Legendary Fire Giant stepped forward and attacked the Barb/Beguiler with a full attack, hitting him twice, IIRC.  Yes, the PC was invisible, but he didn't move, and with Pierce Magical Concealment, all the giant had to do was attack the right square.  This brought my PC down to 15 hit points, and he's very lucky that I grant the hit points from leveling right away (he had earned enough XP from the previous week in the start of the attack on the Fire Giants to level to 17th, so he got the hit points for it at the start of this session, though no other aspects of leveling would happen until he got a chance to rest); without that, he would have been knocked below 0 HP's.

The Barb//Beguiler used his teleportation boots to teleport away from the Legendary Fire Giant as a move action (putting him on the far side of the battlefield), then spent his two standard actions using a wand of Cure Serious Wounds on himself.  He would do the same the following round.  The Legendary Giant then tried to attack the Wizard/Iot7FV//Rogue (because he could see the veil, even though the wizard was invisible), but merely ended up disintegrating his sword in the veil (and the plane shift effect failed because the Wiz//Rog's caster level check did not succeed).

Then the BBEG finally made his appearance, and the sudden-widened Energy Transformation Field scared the crap out of my PC's.  They did make spellcraft checks, and the wizard had up Greater Arcane Sight, so they knew it was ETF, and that it would eat any spells they tried to cast.  So, the PC's retreated to another portion of the tunnels, the Beguiler healed himself some more, and they spent the round rebuffing themselves (their true haste spells were ~2 rounds from expiring), planning to bottle-neck the giants and plaster them with a Web.  No giants came, so the PC's buffed again, more improved invisibility spells are cast.  No giants come.  After several more rounds of waiting, the PC's creep around the corner to have a look, and one of them can just see down the tunnel as the last three giants (the Cleric 10, Wizard 15, and the Legendary Fire Giant) clasp shoulders, and Plane Shift back home.

They continue to hear screaming, and dally around for a few rounds, and then finally enter the back room where dominated humans are slaying their companions, and they deal with the situation.  They saved the day (well, for most of the prisoners), but now worry about the fire giants coming back (good, they should worry), and were quite ticked off that the BBEG escaped with all his LOOT (oh, what a travesty!)  They still got 356,000 gp-worth of other items from the giants they did kill.

But, I finally got the PC's to have to back off and "run away" again, and that felt good.  They even commented that this was the first time they'd had to resort to in-combat healing in a very long time.  It's often hard to challenge characters of this level (at least while maintaining the story that I've built up thus far, and the style of game it has turned out to be).  So, the Heroic encounter schedule from Lords of Madness is a big help, and though the PC's tore through the first four encounters, the last one gave them pause, and very nearly killed one of the PC's (had the Legendary Fire Giant just hit once more...)

Maybe the next session will kick off a massive Wild Hunt against the party.  I can certainly construct a series of encounters around that which would follow the Heroic Encounter schedule.

[ZhonLord]

Here's another way to mess with them:

Since they're infiltration-oriented, being discovered is a major issue for them right?  Then set up some living radars: Telepathic creatures with the Mindsight feat from Complete Arcane.  Any creature in the telepathy radius with an Int score shows up to the character as an exact location, intelligence score, and creature type, through any obstruction as if it were another form of eyesight. 

And even better, you can give any arcane spellcaster this ability by taking a 1-level dip in the Mindbender Prestige Class (also Complete Arcane) and grabbing that feat to have a 100' absolute radar.  Invisibility, hide checks, and any other form of stealth or hidden combat becomes null and void against this feat.  Never let your minions or BBEG be ambushed again!

[ksbsnowowl]

Here's another way to mess with them:

Since they're infiltration-oriented, being discovered is a major issue for them right?  Then set up some living radars: Telepathic creatures with the Mindsight feat from Complete Arcane.  Any creature in the telepathy radius with an Int score shows up to the character as an exact location, intelligence score, and creature type, through any obstruction as if it were another form of eyesight. 

Oh trust me, I know the feat.  The Barb//Beguiler has it (he has one level of Mindbender).

I could introduce some undead with Lifesense, instead (in fact, I know exactly what to put it on, in about 4 levels...)

I know Superior Invisibility's ability to hide from Mindsight is disputed... I'll have to look at Lifesense later; I know the Beguiler is planning to pick that one up.

I do have a planned encounter to muck with his Mindsight, though - a Vultivor Hellbreaker "assassin" (w/ TSL levels).  So long as he is within 20 feet of the Beguiler, the Beguiler's telepathy doesn't work, and thus no Mindsight.

[ZhonLord]

Here's another way to mess with them:

Since they're infiltration-oriented, being discovered is a major issue for them right?  Then set up some living radars: Telepathic creatures with the Mindsight feat from Complete Arcane.  Any creature in the telepathy radius with an Int score shows up to the character as an exact location, intelligence score, and creature type, through any obstruction as if it were another form of eyesight. 

Oh trust me, I know the feat.  The Barb//Beguiler has it (he has one level of Mindbender).

I could introduce some undead with Lifesense, instead (in fact, I know exactly what to put it on, in about 4 levels...)

I know Superior Invisibility's ability to hide from Mindsight is disputed... I'll have to look at Lifesense later; I know the Beguiler is planning to pick that one up.

I do have a planned encounter to muck with his Mindsight, though - a Vultivor Hellbreaker "assassin" (w/ TSL levels).  So long as he is within 20 feet of the Beguiler, the Beguiler's telepathy doesn't work, and thus no Mindsight.

You can also use DM ruling on some things.  For example, for your campaign you could say that any creature who is immune to mind-effecting, or immune to psionics/telepathy, could theoretically be immune to mindsight.  Or say that for this campaign, superior invisibility DOES block mindsight.  Or you could just make specialized assassins who by a custom class ability can hide from it.  Or go with lifesense as a counter-play, like you yourself suggested, or just create anti-psionic or anti-telepathy fields that aren't limited to the 20' radius for your Hellbreaker.  You're the DM, you set the rules.


Alternatively, if you are banning the use of certain books for the players to use, then go nuts and use those books yourself.  Hit them with a half-ogre or half-minotaur Vow of Poverty monk.  Grab some feats/abilities out of Vile Darkness.  And don't forget 3rd party sources like Ultimate Feats, which gives wonderful feats that can really mess with players.  My favorite, for example:

Deflect Attack: when fighting defensively, this creature can make an attack of opportunity any time a foe attempts to strike them in melee.  This attack is a sunder attempt at the opponent's weapon, and any damage dealt to the opponent's weapon is also subtracted from the damage that would have been taken by this creature (example: opponent would deal 50 damage on a hit, your AoO deals 30 against his weapon, and then you only take 20 damage from his attack).  Put this feat on a Ruby Knight Vindicator and enjoy the show.

[Jalle]

Oh trust me, I know the feat.  The Barb//Beguiler has it (he has one level of Mindbender).

I could introduce some undead with Lifesense, instead (in fact, I know exactly what to put it on, in about 4 levels...)

I know Superior Invisibility's ability to hide from Mindsight is disputed... I'll have to look at Lifesense later; I know the Beguiler is planning to pick that one up.

I do have a planned encounter to muck with his Mindsight, though - a Vultivor Hellbreaker "assassin" (w/ TSL levels).  So long as he is within 20 feet of the Beguiler, the Beguiler's telepathy doesn't work, and thus no Mindsight.

Another way to fuck with the beguiler is to let them encounter some allips. Everyone targeting an allip with telepathy takes 1d4 wisdom damage with no save. If he somehow would encounter multiple allips simultaneously, it would really ruin his day.

[ksbsnowowl]

Madness (Su)

Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

Nice find!  I'd always assumed someone had to actually try to communicate with it via a telepathic ability, though I suppose Mindsight would fall under "thought detection."  I think that's really supposed to refer to Detect Thoughts, but even detect thoughts' first round specifies "Presence or absence of thoughts (from conscious creatures with Intelligence scores of 1 or higher)."  Mindsight works on anything with an intelligence score, so it would be hard to argue it isn't basically the exact same thing.

[Jalle]

Madness (Su)

Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

Nice find!  I'd always assumed someone had to actually try to communicate with it via a telepathic ability, though I suppose Mindsight would fall under "thought detection."  I think that's really supposed to refer to Detect Thoughts, but even detect thoughts' first round specifies "Presence or absence of thoughts (from conscious creatures with Intelligence scores of 1 or higher)."  Mindsight works on anything with an intelligence score, so it would be hard to argue it isn't basically the exact same thing.

Mindsight definitely falls in that category. The beguiler can sense every intelligent creature within 100 ft., but this is done via telepathy.

From mindsight's description:

"The creature also perceives several observable characteristics about each being detected with mindsight, including the being's type and Intelligence score. The creature need not take any additional or special actions to gain this information; it is as obvious to mindsight as the being's race and clothing would be to eyesight."

If the beguiler knows the location of the allips then he automatically knows the type and int score, which can only be found via telepathy. One could say that the beguiler might be able to "shut down his mindsight" for a time (I don't know any ruling regarding this matter), but as a default he has it activated (at least up until now) and therefore he takes the wisdom damage when "scanning the aera".

[ksbsnowowl]

Madness (Su)

Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

That's the only thing that might hang up the way this works.  Mindsight doesn't target those it detects, you just detect them.

[ZhonLord]

Madness (Su)

Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

That's the only thing that might hang up the way this works.  Mindsight doesn't target those it detects, you just detect them.

As I said, DM ruling holds sway on stuff like this, you can say it counts as targeting. 

And Jalle has it right.  Mindsight against an allip is like staring into the sun.  The sun damages your eyes, an allip damages your mind.  But unlike eyes, the mind cannot be shut off nor can it look elsewhere (unless you allow him a concentration check once he figures out what's going on to shut off his mindsight or to focus it on a single being; either way, you can get the beguiler to turn off his own radar and then sneak all sorts of fun things in  ).

[nijineko]

why isn't anyone using skill tricks? there is the one skill trick that lets you pinpoint the square invisible creatures are in with a skill check....

[ksbsnowowl]

why isn't anyone using skill tricks? there is the one skill trick that lets you pinpoint the square invisible creatures are in with a skill check....

Because I haven't spent the time to really get to know the skill tricks?
Now that I know it's there, I'll be including it on future Fire Giant characters 

[Jalle]

Mindsight against an allip is like staring into the sun.  The sun damages your eyes, an allip damages your mind.

Exactly! Good analogy.