What are the Best Effigies you can make without using templates?

[Phoenix00]

I recently found out about the extra construction options introduced Frankenstein article of Dragon 327 pages 72 and 73.  3 new more expensive options were added to craft construct which you gain access to as soon as you can meat the prerequisites of those options.

The strongest of them is rudimentary intelligence.  With Rudimentary Intelligence all you need is

• Craft Construct
• Caster Level of 12
• An extra 8,000 gp of cost to create the construct

And your construct has an intelligence modifier of 1/2 your caster level.  This allows your construct to take feats which it meats the requirements for as well as have skills equal to 2+Any Skills from Int.

---------

Duergar are an awesome craft race see here
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9671.0
Effectively for 1 LA (buy it off or just keep it) you get a caster level of 2xHD with a minimum of CL 3.  Thus at
1st Level you can take Craft Wondrous Item
1st Level (with flaws) Extraordinary Artisan
3rd Level you can take Craft Magic Arms and Armor
6th Level (or 5th Level Wizard) you can take Craft Construct

---------

Crafting an Effigy has no requirements besides the Craft Construct Feat, Raw Materials (more on that later), and a DC 15 Craft (woodworking, leatherworking, or metalworking) check or a DC 15 knowledge (architecture and engineering) check.  You don't even need to be a real spellcaster, craft is an extremely common skill all the main classes in the PHB have craft as a class skill.

Don't forget:  A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.  Also Don't forget your masterwork tools for another +2.  Combine with always rolling a 1 you only need a total of 10 ranks and / or enough intelligence to make the check.

The cost to create an effigy is based on the size of the effigy and how much hd the effigy has.  Here is the base cost due to size.  You do not pay any xp cost due to the size.
Tiny 500 gp
Small 1,000 gp
Medium 2,000 gp
Large 5,000 gp
Huge 10,000 gp
Gargantuan 25,000 gp
Colossal 50,000 gp
The cost of each hd is equal to  1,000 gp and 80 XP per Hit Die.

Extraordinary Artisan reduces the body cost and the cost of each HD by 25%

---------

Effigies can be corporeal creatures of the following types.

• Aberration
• Animal
• Dragon
• Giant
• Humanoid
• Magical beast
• Monstrous humanoid
• Vermin

These following types can not be effigies

• Construct
• Elemental
• Fey
• Ooze
• Outsider
• Plant
• Undead

Based on this info probably the strongest creatures we are going to find are going to be aberrations, giants, and dragons.  Possibly magical beast and humanoids

---------

Effigies keep all Extraordinary Special Attacks unless the attack is based on Con.  The Effigy loses all SP and SU supernatural attacks.  The Effigy loses all its Special Qualties, but it gains construct traits, damage reduction based on HD, a change in hit points, bab, saves, and slam attacks if the effigy is humanish shape and lacks natural weapons.

Now due to rudimentary intelligence you get feats for your effigy, effectively your effigy is a fighter with 3/4 bab and no bonus feats.  That said due to Duergar caster level being twice your hit dice the limit factor to the size of effigies is your gold and how far you can advance the creature with the monster tables.

Don't forget you can grant your effigy martial maneuvers via feats if the effigy meets the prerequisites.  (Hello white raven tactics for a 12 HD effigy)

---------

So what are the best effigies you can make without templates?

[Phoenix00]

Reserved

[Phoenix00]

So far I am thinking
Cave Troll      Charger with pounce that also posses hands so you can wield weapons if you take the right feats
Rukanyr      Lots of natural attacks, with a single attack being a save or suck based on strength.  Can take the Dragon 327 option extra arms for some extra gp and now you have 3 save or sucks based on strength.
Mercury Dragon    As a mount with a 250ft good flight speed.  Can spend a feat on improved flight and now we have a 250 perfect flight speed.
Gold Dragon   As a mount and general fighter.  Mercury Dragon has better flight, Gold Dragon has better stats.
Pegasus      As a mount on the cheap.  Would not waste rudimentary intelligence on this for the gp is not worth it.  I personally don't like this option very much for I rather use spells for free than make a weak mount that may die and then you lose your investment.

------

Not legal creatures that I thought of earlier or were suggested.
Arrow Demon (outsider type)
Kelvezu Demon (outsider type)
Pit Fiend (outsider type)

[Keldar]

Save a horse, ride a Couatl?

[sirpercival]

Basically you're looking for the best (Ex) abilities you can find.

Kelvezu is medium, 12HD, and has +8d6 sneak attack (and evasion and uncanny dodge), so you could make a good and cheap roguish char.
Jovocs have (Ex) fast healing.

A Battlebriar would make a RIDICULOUS grappler.

[ketaro]

A colossal 12 headed hydra ._.
I don't need Ex's. I'll just attack you a dozen times with like a +20 str modifier from size alone.

Coincidentally, I'm running a level 30 Artificer/Effigy Master in a game currently with an army of effigies & golems that I carry around in a giant airship about 2 football fields in size. I hadn't thought that I could take advantage of using templates on a base creatures before turning it into an effigy, so my own solution to the lack of any abilities beyond natural attacks was to effectively build wondrous items into the effigies that gave them either spells that mimicked the base creatures normal supernaturals (like making a frost worm effigy (cause burrows I guess) and building cone of cold usuable however many times per day I wanted into it and setting the trigger action to swift). Or buff spells and whatnot. It's not like it was cost inefficient, I'm an artificer with all the craft reductions

Anyways, that's what my idea was for powering up Effigies without applying templates to the base creature. And that's before applying and Int score to gain feats.

By the way, using Awaken Construct would be cheaper than the Rudimentary Intelligence feature, wouldn't it? Though of course the latter is available a lot sooner than a 9th level spell is.....but if getting to that point...it is cheaper to just make something that casts Awaken Construct like 1-2/day. right?
(Even buying a 9th level scroll (3,900~gp) is cheaper than it even after applying like ~50% cost reduction to Craft Construct...)

[Phoenix00]

Basically you're looking for the best (Ex) abilities you can find.

Kelvezu is medium, 12HD, and has +8d6 sneak attack (and evasion and uncanny dodge), so you could make a good and cheap roguish char.
Jovocs have (Ex) fast healing.

A Battlebriar would make a RIDICULOUS grappler.

You wouldn't get the Kelvezu evasion and uncanny dodge for those are ex special abilities and you don't get special abilities only special attacks.  You would keep the Kelvezu sneak attack, high dex, high na, and flight though.  I think this is a good form.

Jovocs losing their fast healing for that is a special quality.  Thus they are nothing special for effigies.

Battlebriars are a good creature for effigies though.  For fun give them a little UMD (all skills are class skills for effigies), and some magic items that increase grapple checks such as fearsome grapple, expansion, etc.

A colossal 12 headed hydra ._.
I don't need Ex's. I'll just attack you a dozen times with like a +20 str modifier from size alone.

Hydras are nice but their is no advance entry past 12 headed, and no size increase options.

By the way, using Awaken Construct would be cheaper than the Rudimentary Intelligence feature, wouldn't it? Though of course the latter is available a lot sooner than a 9th level spell is.....but if getting to that point...it is cheaper to just make something that casts Awaken Construct like 1-2/day. right?
(Even buying a 9th level scroll (3,900~gp) is cheaper than it even after applying like ~50% cost reduction to Craft Construct...)

Awaken Construst makes all your constructs into npcs.  This is bad.
Awaken Construct also costs 5,000 xp (same as wish) or 25,000 additional gp if you make it into a magic item.
Awaken Construct is 9th level spell thus it is hard to get prior to level 17.  You can get rudimentary intelligence around ecl 5

------

Rukanyr from fiend follio are awesome.

10 natural attacks
Poison
Stunning Strike, fort save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds on 1 of the natural attacks.  It formula is strength based 10+1/2 HD+Str
You can advance a Rukanyr to HD 14 while still keeping the large size, and if you want to go huge you can go all the way to HD 21.
Only problem with a Rukanyr is your Dex sucks.

[snakeman830]

One bit to note with hydras is that their iconic head-regrowing ability is a natural ability.  I know of no templates that can actually remove it either, so a Hydra effigy could be made twice as dangerous.  Usually better to use on zombies, since they're easier to heal up, but hydra effigies work too.

[Phoenix00]

One bit to note with hydras is that their iconic head-regrowing ability is a natural ability.  I know of no templates that can actually remove it either, so a Hydra effigy could be made twice as dangerous.  Usually better to use on zombies, since they're easier to heal up, but hydra effigies work too.

If you do this remember the heads fall off each day.  You can cut off the heads again but you do damage to your hydras via doing so.

Remember you can not heal a effigy normally for healling spells do not work on constructs.  Repair spells and fast healing (such as lesser vigor) do work on constructs.

[ketaro]

Hydras are nice but their is no advance entry past 12 headed, and no size increase options.

By the way, using Awaken Construct would be cheaper than the Rudimentary Intelligence feature, wouldn't it? Though of course the latter is available a lot sooner than a 9th level spell is.....but if getting to that point...it is cheaper to just make something that casts Awaken Construct like 1-2/day. right?
(Even buying a 9th level scroll (3,900~gp) is cheaper than it even after applying like ~50% cost reduction to Craft Construct...)

Awaken Construst makes all your constructs into npcs.  This is bad.
Awaken Construct also costs 5,000 xp (same as wish) or 25,000 additional gp if you make it into a magic item.
Awaken Construct is 9th level spell thus it is hard to get prior to level 17.  You can get rudimentary intelligence around ecl 5

Hydra's fast healing is Ex(Oh nevermind, that's a special quality isn't it so it loses that), and the other guy is right, the head regrowing would likely stay in effect as an effigy.
And, just because a 12headed hydra caps out at 12HD doesn't mean you can't add more HD with Craft Construct's 1kgp per HD. And even if it is only Huge sized, that doesn't mean you can't make a colossal version of it by simply paying for the colossal price of an effigy, thus being able to increase it's strength according to size category increases along with granting more bonus hp and higher DR.

Ah, I forgot about the exp cost on Awaken Construct entirely, haha. I guess that would make the cost of even a scroll of it really high. Well, if you're raising a literal army it could work out in the long run to make an item out of it but moot point!
It wouldn't necessarily turn them into NPCs, or at the least, the DM probably would still let you control them. Probably 


For repairing constructs, I like to employ swarms of Clockwork Mender Swarms (MM...2 maybe? Or 3?) which have the ability to sacrifice their own HP to effectively simulate repair effects on constructs and objects. It's like virtual fast healing! Just bump their HD up so they can heal more

[awaken_D_M_golem]

+1 for Rudimentary Int over Awaken ; although it isn't cheap until later.
_{My kitty avatar is so sooo sad.}


Psi Repair Damage item

[zook1shoe]

Swarms?

Jarilith has some of the best physical stats/HD out there

[sirpercival]

Can you make an effigy out of an ooze? Bone Ooze has Ex special attacks of draining 1d6 Str, Dex, and Con per slam attack, engulf, and a DC 35 SoD against engulfed creatures...

[Keldar]

Can you make an effigy out of an ooze? Bone Ooze has Ex special attacks of draining 1d6 Str, Dex, and Con per slam attack, engulf, and a DC 35 SoD against engulfed creatures...

I now wish to make a Gelatinous Cube Effigy.   Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
Except sadly, Oozes aren't allowed.

[Phoenix00]

Can you make an effigy out of an ooze? Bone Ooze has Ex special attacks of draining 1d6 Str, Dex, and Con per slam attack, engulf, and a DC 35 SoD against engulfed creatures...

EFFIGY
“Effigy”is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin (referred to hereafter as the base creature)"...

So no oozes

And *expletive* no outsiders too it appears  .  Will do some edits.

And, just because a 12headed hydra caps out at 12HD doesn't mean you can't add more HD with Craft Construct's 1kgp per HD. And even if it is only Huge sized, that doesn't mean you can't make a colossal version of it by simply paying for the colossal price of an effigy, thus being able to increase it's strength according to size category increases along with granting more bonus hp and higher DR.

How effigy works is that you take a legal creature and the apply the effigy template to it.  Thus if the creature doesn't come in the correct size or has a maximum hd in its advancement table you can't just add it because you want to.

Now you can apply templates to effigies, but I consider that to be bad form if it dramatically changes the monster without changing the cost of the effigy template.  Since most templates do not change the hd or size, and only hd and size are used in calculating the cost of an effigy using templates that dramatically change the monster is in my mind bad form.

[ketaro]

Well when you're losing everything the base creature can do, it's really not that bad to increase the size to try to make up for it a little, imo =P

[sirpercival]

well, the half dragon template changes any living corporeal creature into a dragon type. So that could take care of any type issues.

[Phoenix00]

Other creatures I am thinking of

Firbolg looks to be the best giant I can do while keeping large size and not going huge.

Geriviar is a huge giant has 26 hd and is a giant that can be advanced all the way up to 40, it also has a speed of 70ft and really high na.  It also has multiple arms, how much I can't tell for the full attack states 8 slams and 1 bite, the description states six limbs, and the picture has 4 arms.  So if I understand correctly he has 4 arms, 2 legs, but he can do 2 slams with each arm?

Eldritch Giant which has higher strength than Geriviar, but Geriviar is better in everything else.

I am thinking about allowing one template in this thread and that is dungeonbred since it does not change the cr and it just shrinks the monster while keeping most of the monster strength and abilities scaled (it is a very slight reduction in power, very slight).  Remember though

“Dungeonbred” is an inherited template that can be applied to any living corporeal aberration, animal, magical beast, or vermin that is Large or bigger

So no dragon, giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid effigies with the dungeonbred template.

Save a horse, ride a Couatl?

Sadly not legal outsider type

Kelvezu is medium,
A Battlebriar would make a RIDICULOUS grappler.

Kelvezu is outsider, Battlebriar is plant

Jarilith has some of the best physical stats/HD out there

Jarilith Demons are outsiders

Can you make an effigy out of an ooze? Bone Ooze has Ex special attacks of draining 1d6 Str, Dex, and Con per slam attack, engulf, and a DC 35 SoD against engulfed creatures...

Oozes are not allowed

Swarms?

You lose the swarm subtype when you take effigy

[Phoenix00]

well, the half dragon template changes any living corporeal creature into a dragon type. So that could take care of any type issues.

While this is raw legal, I rather stay away from this since it adds to the creatures strength while not changing the cost of an effigy.  Same thing with the shadow template.  This thought led originally to an effigy that was 30 something half dragons for you can add the template for free.

Well when you're losing everything the base creature can do, it's really not that bad to increase the size to try to make up for it a little, imo =P

I rather not allow houserules in this thread, especially when we can do legal stuff such as as feats and skills and open up stuff like umd and martial maneuvers.

For example a Rukanyr advanced to 21 HD (Large Size) will the extra arms advancement from dragon 327 would have Str 31 and Dex 6 and 200 average hit points.  The Rukanyr has 12 Natural Attacks (10 normal 2 additional with extra arms), with 3 being Save or Suck with a Fort DC of 31 where you are stunned for 1d4 rounds. Cost 34,000 GP with Legendary Artisan plus some xp.  The Rukanyr also has 8 feat which he can spend on things to increase his save dc, or his damage, or even do a white raven tactics.

This is easily superior any summon monster you can do even summon monster ix.  Plus these creatures are permanet, no need to waste time summoning them, you can equip them, etc.

Oh your poor Rukanyr doesn't have pounce, well that is why your raven familiar cast benign transposition from a wand or imbue familiar with spell ability.  Or you cast Dimension Step (3rd level) to give all your allies including your Rukanyr construct a move action.  Or the Rukanyr took travel devotion, etc.

[sirpercival]

Half-Fey (FF, 3.5up) changes type to Fey, is only CR +1, and doesn't add to Strength.