Author Topic: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D  (Read 19950 times)

Offline Madwand

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Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« on: November 16, 2013, 11:49:33 PM »
Pathfinder has severely nerfed reach. No PF weapon threaten at 5' and 10', any that did have been errataed, as far as I know. I'm in a game combining D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder, and I'm looking for any way to get a weapon to threaten at both ranges. Drow Spiked Chain is out too, unfortunately. I seem to remember a weapon ability from D&D 3.0 that added reach via a tentacle or something. Does anyone have any ideas about how to overcome this limitation?

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 12:04:12 AM »
Worst comes to worst, there's the Short Haft feat in PHB2.
"When life gives you lemons, fire them back at high velocity."

Offline SolEiji

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 12:19:35 AM »
I overcome it with a longspear with a spiked gauntlet.  I threaten both ranges.
Mudada.

Offline Madwand

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 12:44:05 AM »
I have spiked gauntlets and natural attacks. But I also have a +8 weapon... and I'd like to make sure I have the opportunity to actually USE it at close range.

Offline Iainuki

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 07:58:57 AM »
I did some research on this awhile back, and as far as I know, the answer's no.  This is Pathfinder after all, non-casters aren't allowed to have nice things.  If anyone knows different, I'd like to see it.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 09:37:17 AM »
Don't forget the ultimate bane of the reach-user in PF: The Step Up feat!

Casters can make an easy (and free!  thanks pathfinder for removing the skill rank cost!) concentration check to ignore the fact the big dumb fighter moved up on them.

Archers of very specific classes can spend a bunch of feats and wait till mid-levels to pick up Point Blank Master feat, a feat tax that largely exists just because 5 ft steps stopped being a sure thing.

Reach users... are just plain fucked.

I overcome it with a longspear with a spiked gauntlet.  I threaten both ranges.

IIRC, they had an FAQ a few months ago that disallowed this (or similar reach + non-reach combos), for incredibly stupid reasons.  Something about SKR claiming you can't kick and use a longspear at the same time.  I don't know, it was so stupid I tried my best to purge it from my head.

In any way, to be helpful... I believe the PF kusari-gama hits at reach and adjacent.  Unfortunately it's an utterly terrible weapon AND exotic (ie, costs a feat), balanced around being used with TWF (ugh).

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 12:35:58 PM »
Pathfinder has severely nerfed reach. No PF weapon threaten at 5' and 10', any that did have been errataed, as far as I know.
B/c this was the balance problem in D&D.  Thank you Pathfinder!

Offline Madwand

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 12:59:37 PM »
I realize this is a PF-only problem... and a ridiculous one, at that. Melee does not need to be nerfed. I *do* however have the resources of D&D 3.5 and 3.0 to draw upon also, in this case. I have recently found the Shorten Grip feat: http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/shorten-grip--3397/, which may satisfy my needs if it is allowed. However, I'm still looking for better options. I wish I could find that 3.0 weapon property that added 5' reach to any weapon.

Offline kitep

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 01:57:07 PM »
Have you checked Captnq's Weapon Handbook?  Doesn't cover pathfinder, but it does cover 3.0 and should have the thing listed.


Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2013, 02:40:27 PM »
If spiked chains are out then the other two adjacent+reach weapons I know of are the spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona page 136 and the kusari-gama from the DMG pages 144 and 145.

Offline SolEiji

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2013, 05:44:17 PM »
I overcome it with a longspear with a spiked gauntlet.  I threaten both ranges.

IIRC, they had an FAQ a few months ago that disallowed this (or similar reach + non-reach combos), for incredibly stupid reasons.  Something about SKR claiming you can't kick and use a longspear at the same time.  I don't know, it was so stupid I tried my best to purge it from my head.

Reaaaaaally?

I find PF much more enjoyable if you see it as a group of people making a game, and their one crazy drunk uncle SKR who sometimes rambles about how the commies are controlling his mind with fluoride.  That man is a trip.
Mudada.

Offline veekie

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 06:16:54 AM »
I overcome it with a longspear with a spiked gauntlet.  I threaten both ranges.

IIRC, they had an FAQ a few months ago that disallowed this (or similar reach + non-reach combos), for incredibly stupid reasons.  Something about SKR claiming you can't kick and use a longspear at the same time.  I don't know, it was so stupid I tried my best to purge it from my head.

Reaaaaaally?

I find PF much more enjoyable if you see it as a group of people making a game, and their one crazy drunk uncle SKR who sometimes rambles about how the commies are controlling his mind with fluoride.  That man is a trip.
This explains the game far, far too well. The rest are normal-ish, of average competence.


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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 07:13:21 AM »
Isn't the raving hobo in charge of the operation? 

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 11:09:05 AM »
Isn't the raving hobo in charge of the operation?
Yeah, that is the one major goof-up for Paizo.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2013, 08:02:56 PM »
Have you checked Captnq's Weapon Handbook?  Doesn't cover pathfinder, but it does cover 3.0 and should have the thing listed.

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If you check my guide, all weapons that are reach-NM are Reach-No Minumum. I have them flagged that way so you can just search for it. Have fun.

I left out the ones that PF errata'd.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
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Offline Madwand

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 11:13:15 PM »
Thanks, that's very helpful. I've been looking through your weapon handbook recently, it is an amazing resource.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2013, 12:56:33 AM »
Thanks, that's very helpful. I've been looking through your weapon handbook recently, it is an amazing resource.

Check Back in about a week. I'm working on the finishing touches on the ASAs.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
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Offline Madwand

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 06:44:37 PM »
Just for future reference for anyone else who has this question, a nifty PF feat could solve this problem with a reasonable DM: Catch Off-Guard:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/catch-off-guard-combat

You could potentially say that your improvised weapon is just "choking up" on your polearm and attacking with the head at short range. The Greater Catch Off-Guard feat makes this even better.

Offline Slippery_Chicken

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2013, 01:00:43 PM »
IIRC, they had an FAQ a few months ago that disallowed this (or similar reach + non-reach combos), for incredibly stupid reasons.  Something about SKR claiming you can't kick and use a longspear at the same time.  I don't know, it was so stupid I tried my best to purge it from my head.

I like to imagine this being similar to the "mouse-weapon-cord" thing in that other thread, with SKR trying to make a kicking motion while holding a spear, but falling on his face instead.

Or just him doing a bad job of rationalizing a nonsensical decision.

Offline SolEiji

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Re: Threatening reach at 5' and 10' in Pathfinder+D&D
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2013, 07:03:29 PM »
IIRC, they had an FAQ a few months ago that disallowed this (or similar reach + non-reach combos), for incredibly stupid reasons.  Something about SKR claiming you can't kick and use a longspear at the same time.  I don't know, it was so stupid I tried my best to purge it from my head.

I like to imagine this being similar to the "mouse-weapon-cord" thing in that other thread, with SKR trying to make a kicking motion while holding a spear, but falling on his face instead.

Or just him doing a bad job of rationalizing a nonsensical decision.

Its like he's never seen a Jackie Chan movie in his life.  Or any wuxia.  Or.... heck, real professional fighters.  Heck, I'm pretty sure I can do it and I am no paragon of humanity.  *Shudder*

Silly fighters, should have cast Bigby's Kicking Foot instead, its the only way it is humanly possible.
Mudada.