Author Topic: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build  (Read 4516 times)

Offline Sunspear

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Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« on: December 13, 2013, 04:29:08 PM »
Core concepts
- Soulbow mind arrows only requiring one hand to project
- Soulbow Lucky arrow enchantment for rerolling attacks
- Swift Hunter for skirmish damage and favored enemy
- Non-Psionic Thri-Kreen & Perfect Multiweapon Fighting for tons of attacks
- Travel Devotion for full attacks on move

Source
SRD, Complete Champion, Complete Psionics, Complete Adventurer, Complete Scoundrel

Build w/ Class Features/Feat Progression
Level 1 - LA - Leap, Poison, Deflect Arrows, Point Blank Shot
Level 2 - Ranger 1 (Champion of the Wild variant) - Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy
Level 3 - Scout 1 - Skirmish (1d6), Trapfinding, Precise Shot
Level 4 - Scout 2 - Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge
Level 5 - Scout 3 - Fast Movement +10, Skirmish (1d6/1), Trackless Step
Level 6 - Ranger 2 - Combat Style (Multiweapon Fighting), Swift Hunter, Skirmish (2d6/1), 2nd favored enemy
Level 7 - Soulknife 1 - Mind blade, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Wild Talent
Level 8 - SK 2 - Throw mind blade
Level 9 - Soulbow 1 - Mind Arrow, Soulbow Feat (Rapid Shot), Manyshot
Level 10 - SB 2 - Mind arrow enhancement (Lucky)
Level 11 - Scout 4 - Improved Skirmish
Level 12 - Ranger 3 - Endurance, Travel Devotion, Skirmish (2d6/2)
Level 13 - Ranger 4 - Animal Companion, Improved Favored Enemy
Level 14 - Ranger 5 - Skirmish (3d6/2)
Level 15 - Ranger 6 - Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Greater Manyshot, 3rd favored enemy
Level 16 - Ranger 7 - Woodland stride, skirmish (3d6/3)
Level 17 - Ranger 8 - Swift Tracker, Greater Multiweapon Fighting
Level 18 - Ranger 9 - Evasion, Perfect Multiweapon Fighting, Skirmish (4d6/3)
Level 19 - Scout 5 - Spell Reflection
Level 20 - Scout 6 - Flawless Stride, skirmish (4d6/4), 4th favored enemy

Full Class Features (Cleaned)
- Skirmish (4d6/4AC) + 2d6/2 if over 20 feet
- 4 favored enemies + Improved Favored Enemy
- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Greater Manyshot
- Perfect Multiweapon Fighting
- Evasion, Spell Reflection, Deflect Arrows, Uncanny Dodge
- Track, Wild Empathy, Trapfinding, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Flawless Stride, Animal Companion, Endurance

The idea is pretty simple - Travel Devotion to move 20+feet, throw out 17 attacks a round (4 attacks/hand x 4 hands + 1 Rapid Shot), all of which get Skirmish and possibly Favored Enemy Bonus, and which get a reroll on miss.

Damage per round at 20 with Improved Skirmish would be 17d8 + 102d6 + 7x17 (if against favored enemy). The effectiveness of rerolls depends on DEX and enemy AC.

Thoughts on this build?

Offline Keldar

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 01:56:15 PM »
Thoughts:
Thri-kreen have 2HD and 2LA, I don't see how you are getting that down to 1LA here.  I can't find reference to a non psionic Thri-kreen anywhere, and I can't believe that would drop those 2 HD.  The poorly written racial class in CPsi certainly doesn't do that.

Travel Devotion is only usable once a day on your build.  Meaning the bulk of your build does nothing for you most of the time.

You don't qualify for Perfect Multiweapon Fighting, its an Epic Feat.

Your feats from HD are all off a level.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2013, 02:07:56 PM »
Yeah there's some weird options on 3kreen.

Savage Species has the non-psi 2rhd+1la version.
CPsi has a racial progression, but it's for the psi 2rhd+2la version
and of course doesn't include LA Buy-off.

If you're set on going with the SS version,
you've got to get the 2 racial HD levels first,
and perhaps homegame handwave away
the 1 LA for convenience sake.  That would
take away 1 level of your build, while not
changing it too much.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2013, 10:05:28 PM »
Thoughts:
Thri-kreen have 2HD and 2LA, I don't see how you are getting that down to 1LA here.  I can't find reference to a non psionic Thri-kreen anywhere, and I can't believe that would drop those 2 HD.  The poorly written racial class in CPsi certainly doesn't do that.

Travel Devotion is only usable once a day on your build.  Meaning the bulk of your build does nothing for you most of the time.

You don't qualify for Perfect Multiweapon Fighting, its an Epic Feat.

Your feats from HD are all off a level.

There is a non-psi thrikeen, but it still does cost more HD. 

I agree - need a way to get turn undead, for more use of travel devotion.  There should be a way.

Perfect Multi-weapon fighting can be taken pre-epic ... only requires dex 25 and extra hands.

I think this build has real potential.  I'd work on getting it to "start faster".  I'd also go for more levels of ranger - will probably save feats, and give useful spells.

If you can, LA buyoff and flaws will help a lot. 

Best,
David

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2013, 11:27:49 PM »
Perfect Multi-weapon fighting can be taken pre-epic ... only requires dex 25 and extra hands.
Except any feats with the [Epic] tag also have the prerequisite of character level 21+ (or 21+ HD).  Only way to legitly get an Epic feat pre-epic is a Ranger 11 taking the Uncanny Accuracy feat (as the feat says "a character with 11 or more levels of Ranger need not meet the prerequisites, but may only use the feat while wearing light or no armor").
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Offline DavidWL

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 01:06:57 AM »
Perfect Multi-weapon fighting can be taken pre-epic ... only requires dex 25 and extra hands.
Except any feats with the [Epic] tag also have the prerequisite of character level 21+ (or 21+ HD).  Only way to legitly get an Epic feat pre-epic is a Ranger 11 taking the Uncanny Accuracy feat (as the feat says "a character with 11 or more levels of Ranger need not meet the prerequisites, but may only use the feat while wearing light or no armor").

I stand corrected - thank you.

I still think the build has real potential ... losing that last (-15 to hit) set of attacks isn't too terrible ...

Best,
David

Offline nijineko

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 12:20:11 PM »
you might want to use the official soulknife prestige class instead of the base class. you get mostly twice the benefit out of each level. especially if you use practiced mindblade. the official darksun 3.x site where it is found is athas.org.

Offline Sunspear

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 03:31:33 PM »
Couple of comments/thoughts:

Regarding HD & LA: As mentioned, by using the SS non-psi variant, I believe it's only a 1 LA class with 2HD. Doesn't that mean that my 1st level would be the racial level, which innately has 2HD?

Good catch on the Epic requirement for PMWF. Maybe I take Travel Devotion again to get an additional encounter's worth?

Keldar, what did you mean by the feats being off due to HD? I've never been clear on how HD advancement affects feats... in fact despite poring over PHB and DMG I don't think I've ever seen the actual advancement table...

I can't find the official Soulknife prestige class anywhere, even at Athas.org. I do see lots of homebrew variants, but we generally don't do homebrew.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 05:24:14 PM »

Regarding HD & LA: As mentioned, by using the SS non-psi variant, I believe it's only a 1 LA class with 2HD. Doesn't that mean that my 1st level would be the racial level, which innately has 2HD?

Not quite.  That's only for <=1 rhd races.

It makes more sense if you have the CPsi racial prog sitting in front of you.

1st level = 1st racial hit dice + some racial goodies
2nd level = 2nd racial hit dice + some more racial goodies
3rd level = +1 LA no hit die + the better racial goodies
4th level =  2nd +1 LA no hit die + the best racial goodies
then 1st level of regular PC class. as normal with your ECL = now 5

The non-psi doesn't have a racial prog to follow but you could
get very very close following the CPsi one.  X-out the 4th level
and write in your 1st regular PC level there.  Minor re-jigging.  Go.

Or you could hand wave off the LA for simplicity's sake.
Start with the 2 rhd as ECL = 2.  3rd level is your 1st regular PC level.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 06:23:14 PM »
I can't find the official Soulknife prestige class anywhere, even at Athas.org. I do see lots of homebrew variants, but we generally don't do homebrew.

it is not homebrew. all athas.org material is equally official as anything published by wotc.

you need to download the prestige class compendium volume... one, iirc. (there are two). there is a lot of useful material in the dark sun stuff, might as well download the main book as well.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Review my Soulbow Swift Hunter build
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 08:36:23 PM »
Couple of comments/thoughts:

Regarding HD & LA: As mentioned, by using the SS non-psi variant, I believe it's only a 1 LA class with 2HD. Doesn't that mean that my 1st level would be the racial level, which innately has 2HD?

Good catch on the Epic requirement for PMWF. Maybe I take Travel Devotion again to get an additional encounter's worth?

Keldar, what did you mean by the feats being off due to HD? I've never been clear on how HD advancement affects feats... in fact despite poring over PHB and DMG I don't think I've ever seen the actual advancement table...

I can't find the official Soulknife prestige class anywhere, even at Athas.org. I do see lots of homebrew variants, but we generally don't do homebrew.
Nothing gets two HD in one level.  (This edition.)  The only time the HD of a monster PC is ignored is for 1 HD creatures, because you get to drop that HD and replace it with a class level.  For the Thri-kreen you have 2 racial HD that take up two of your character levels. 
Character level gives you basically nothing itself, everything is actually granted by HD.  You gain Feats at 1st HD and every 3rd HD thereafter, regardless of what your level is.  By default your level and your HD are the same, hiding this distinction, LA destroys that.  So in your original build you have LA at 1st level, but list your feat for your first HD.

With the Thri-kreen you are using your build skeleton would look more like this:
Level       Class
1:             Racial HD    First feat,  2+Int Mod x4 skill points
2:             Racial HD
3:             LA               Thri-Kreen abilities by this point.
4:             Ranger 1    Second Feat,  Ranger stuff
5:             Scout 1       Scout stuff
6:             Scout 2
7:             Scout 3       Third Feat
ect.
Note that with no racial class progression for nonpsionic Thri-kreen this is only playable before 3rd level by DM fiat.

Overall this sets your build two levels back.  And you can still only use your entire gimmick in only one fight, two if you spend another feat.  Spend a level on Cloistered Cleric to get Turn Undead to fuel Travel Devotion, just keep your Charisma above 9.