Author Topic: SAD monk  (Read 6451 times)

Offline Arkslayer

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SAD monk
« on: December 26, 2013, 11:43:15 AM »
I was thinking of making a new character, a monk (as the title suggests), and I wanted to optimize him at least a little bit.  The campaign will probably be a long one (at least level 15, probably level 20).  We'll probably be doing advanced start (starting at level 3).  I want my monk to be as SAD as possible (the single attribute being Wisdom), hopefully with a wisdom based spellcaster class.  The fewer books beyond core I have to go, the better.  Thank you! 

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 02:30:07 PM »
The tashalatora feat (Secrets of Sarlona, p113) is the go-to way to do magical monks … and monks in general.  It lets you add together your levels in monk and one psionic class to determine AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage.  The usual choices for the psionic class are psychic warrior or ardent (Complete Psionic, p5), though war mind and slayer are sometimes done. 

Offline PsyBomb

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 03:50:26 PM »
The tashalatora feat (Secrets of Sarlona, p113) is the go-to way to do magical monks … and monks in general.  It lets you add together your levels in monk and one psionic class to determine AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage.  The usual choices for the psionic class are psychic warrior or ardent (Complete Psionic, p5), though war mind and slayer are sometimes done.

For starting at level three, this route will be best served by Monk1/PsyWar2, Talashtora and essentially just take the second level of Monk then go straight PsiWar. It works out better than Psionic Fist by a long shot. Just use the PsyWar powers like Expansion and Inertial Armor as support and go to town. Secondary stat will of course be Strength, followed by Dex and Con.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 05:52:18 PM »
Mention a Monk built off one ability score and they tell you how to make a poor Psion. Not quite what you wanted huh?

The defacto way is Shiba Protector. Passive Way Monk grants Combat Expertise without needing 13 Intelligence, then all you need is Iron Will (costs 3,000gp via ugoth hole) & Alertness. If Dragon is allowed you can take the Serenity Feat on top of Paladin 2 for Wisdom to Saves as well.
Class: Passive Way Monk 2 / Paladin 2 / Any-Full-BAB 2 / Shiba Protector 1 / Anything +14
Feats: Combat Expertise (m1), Alertness (1st), IM-Trip (m2), Serenity (3rd), Iron Will (location or 6th).

That will give you your Wisdom to Attack, Damage, Armor Class, and Saves by the 7th level.

Offline Ithamar

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 06:02:51 PM »
And if you end up going with Paladin and are thus of good alignment, consider Intuitive Strike from BoED.  So you'll be getting 2 x WIS to your attacks.

Edit:  But if the rest of your group is non-good and/or evil, that probably won't work.  Exalted can be a pain sometimes.

Offline Prime32

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 06:08:13 PM »
And after that you could try the Ascetic Knight feat or Argent Fist.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 03:39:50 PM »
I was thinking of making a new character, a monk (as the title suggests), and I wanted to optimize him at least a little bit.  The campaign will probably be a long one (at least level 15, probably level 20).  We'll probably be doing advanced start (starting at level 3).  I want my monk to be as SAD as possible (the single attribute being Wisdom), hopefully with a wisdom based spellcaster class.  The fewer books beyond core I have to go, the better.  Thank you!

Monk 1 / Druid 19 ... is the best Core Monk, 
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Offline Sir Giacomo

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 10:55:05 AM »
I was thinking of making a new character, a monk (as the title suggests), and I wanted to optimize him at least a little bit.  The campaign will probably be a long one (at least level 15, probably level 20).  We'll probably be doing advanced start (starting at level 3).  I want my monk to be as SAD as possible (the single attribute being Wisdom), hopefully with a wisdom based spellcaster class.  The fewer books beyond core I have to go, the better.  Thank you!

Hi Arkslayer,

I'd second SorO_Lost's idea of a Shiba Protector build. In case you do not like paladin as a wisdom based spellcaster class, you may consider:
Monk 2/Spirit Shaman 4/Sacred Fist 1/ Shiba Protector 1/Sacred Fist 9/Spirit Shaman 3
Note: Shiba Protector is setting-specific and you have to be human, plus no use druid or cleric as a divine spellcasting class (OA p.32)
Also needs only 2 books beyond core as SorO_Lost's idea (OA, plus Complete Divine instead of OA and Unearthed Arcana for the spirit shaman base class and sacred fist prestige class)
Spirit shaman grants Alertness via the spirit guide, you can use the monk bonus feats stunning fist and combat reflexes for Sacred Fist, meaning the following feat choices:
Iron Will (lvl 1), IUS, Stunning fist (monk 1), Combat reflexes (monk 2), Alertness (spirit shaman 1), Combat expertise (lvl 3), Combat Casting (lvl 6, another sacred fist prereq), any (9&up). As Human Bonus Feat, I'd take Zen Archery to get you WIS to attack at least until you enter shiba protector at level 8.

This nets you by level 20:
12 levels of monk unarmed damage (can be boosted futher with feats or magic items), WIS to damage and attack (including double WIS to attack with ranged weapons), 17 levels of spontaneous druid list spellcasting and 9th level spells via spirit shaman (in case you go by RAW reading of the sacred fist spell progression) or 15 levels of spontaneous druid list spellcasting and max 8th level spells (in case you follow the possible RAI of the table progression). Your spellcasting progression interpretation will likely be decided by the DM, depending on the power level of the group.
Your unarmed attacks should also get the ghost touch ability via the ghost warrior class feature of the spirit shaman (again, a DM call, since the ability refers to "held" weapons).

Some alternatives in case you have some preference for a Lawful good or lawful evil monk:
If lawful good, you could take intuitive attack feat from book of exalted deeds (another source). This feat will add your WIS bonus again on attack rolls with your unarmaed strike. You'll need to talk to your DM on this one, since your character then needs to be a shining example of good (also radiating good like a paladin)
If lawful evil, you may wish to replace the spritit shaman divine spellcasting class with the ur-priest prestige class (also from the complete divine rules). It is a faster road to spellcasting power (this time from the cleric spell list, and prepared, not spontaneous), since you'll get 9th level spells already by level 16 or 18 (again, depending on how the spellcasting progression of the sacred fist is interpreted). To achieve the necessary feat requirements, the build is somewhat different (also yielding higher monk unarmed damage, or lvl 12/14 plus potentially some monk damage advancing prestige class in levels 2-4, possibly also from the OA to keep sources limited to core +2 books):
Monk 4/Fighter 1/Cleric (Trickery Domain, to get the Ur-Priest skill reqs) 1/Ur-Priest 1/Sacred Fist 1/Shiba Protector 1/Sacred Fist 7 or 9/Any 2 or 4
Feats taken:
Zen Archery (Human), Iron will (lvl 1), IUS/Stunning Fist (monk 1), Alertness (lvl 3), Combat Expertise (fighter 1), Spell Focus: Evil (lvl 6), Any (9&up)

- Giacomo


Offline Arkslayer

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 06:54:59 PM »
Thank you everyone who has replied to me offering help with this.  There are so many options and they all sound so good! 
On a more specific note, what is the feat that allows one to add wisdom to attack and damage? Or is it a class feature?

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2013, 09:29:41 PM »
Quote from: Shiba Protector, a PrC from Oriental Adventures on page 222
No Thought (Ex): Shiba protectors add their Wisdom modifier, if positive, to their attack and damage rolls.
As previously noted, takes Alertness, [Combat] Expertise, & Iron Will.

Offline muktidata

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 02:02:04 PM »
I've played the Wisdomancer before. It's a lot of fun. Watching every aspect of your character improve off of a buff to a single stat is fun.
I appreciate the logical, cool-headed responses and the lack of profanity displayed by our community.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2014, 04:09:50 PM »
 :plotting ... aren't all hollywood Monks portrayed as Sad, until they learn No Thought ?
 ;)



Intuitive Attack feat in BoED subs Wis for Str mod to attack, for natural attacks + simple weapons.
Not quite as good as No Thought.  I think it stacks, though.
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Offline Dragon lord

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2014, 04:47:32 AM »
As a slight point, Shiba protector is also 3.0 material

Offline Meiliken

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2014, 06:04:18 AM »
As a slight point, Shiba protector is also 3.0 material

Not a bad thing since when it comes to material from 3.0, unless it was updated in a 3.5 book, it's still canon.  It was never updated or errated, it's still usable.  :thumb
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Offline Dragon lord

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2014, 06:18:44 PM »
However it's also a good point to note as some groups (such as mine) won't allow 3.0 material where some 3.5 will get past even though it's not in books we use.

Offline altpersona

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2014, 07:06:40 PM »
i agree w/ A.D.M.G
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Offline Nezkrul

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Re: SAD monk
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2014, 07:12:45 PM »
Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Monk 2 / Sorcerer +2 /  Enlightened Fist 10

Take Ascetic Mage as your level 9 feat.  End up with Charisma to saves and ac, monk/sorc stack for monk ac, sac spell slots to up attack/damage with unarmed strikes, and 7th level arcane spells to buff/nuke/win encounters