Author Topic: Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress  (Read 2324 times)

Offline Summerstorm

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Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress
« on: January 25, 2014, 10:35:28 AM »
Hoi,

so, i recently peeked into an module which i guess our gm will run soon. (Yes i know... usually don't do that - but i am pretty good at seperating player/character knowledge)

Now, just to explain: This module is official, and should take characters from Level 9-11. We are level 10. I see no chance of surviving/mastering this (Well, we can always just abandon it, i guess)
We are not terribly optimized, but i would place us well above a core Fighter-Rogue-Wizard-Cleric band.

(I am Psion Thrallherd with a (weak core) Lvl 8 Cleric as thrall, we have another cleric and a barbarian dude.  Now what i read in this module is this: One of the first things expected is to enter a tomb and see what's going on/release/rouse a spirit. There is a big slab lying on the entrance which has to be removed. If this is removed a creature camouflaged as a tree will attack.

This creature is a 34HD 255 HP!!! Ancient Dragon Skeleton
It can move 40 ft. and has a +44 to attack (+60 to grapple). But the funny thing is the 300ft. frightful presence DC34, immunities and +19 on every save. The only weakness is its' lack of intelligence i guess and the possibility that we might be able to just teleport blindly into the tomb...

But i can tell you how this will go: We go there, look around, don't see anything and try to open the tomb. It will awake, if someone is in reach it will activate the frightful presence and we all will fail the save, then it makes a full-attack and kills one unlucky dude. The rest will try to get away and likely will make it.

After this there is some kind of elemental in there also trying to kill the adventurers. Later a Lich etc.
And so on, and so on.

Now: I am always surprised why people always assume that they can win every encounter (It's something of an D&D thing, i guess) and that the encounters are scaled to the party. So now i am impressed that this module gives some challenges which can't reasonably be solved directly and are seriously unfair. I like that. Than i saw the Challenge Rating for this monstrosity: 11... Eleven?

So now i reflect on the campaign so far. A while back we played the first module in that series (Tearing of the Weave) and we were getting our asses handed to us ALL the time in that too. But apparently it is supposed to be like this (Playing D&D a few years now, but i still am not accustomed to the style i guess?) It was just so many "encounters". Each and every one varied in weaknesses and immunities and surprise strength. No chance to be optimally prepared for them, so we had to take them as they came and we were burning through resources fast. So we had to rest, pretty much in enemy territory all the time and it took days to move just a few hundred meters. Pretty much a life under constant attack. 

(Kill a few dudes, maybe another set, argue about weird traps people have in rooms WHERE THEY LIVED (insanity) and then wait around for 10 hours and then rest  for 10 more.

This still strikes me as really odd. (Usually a strike has to be swift and decisive, or reinforcements and preparations strengthen the defense to a level you can not pierce anymore - also you get harassed and stalked to death.) But here we were rolling around in that dragons lair, murdering DOZENS of exotic dudes over pretty much a week or so.

Now, rant over *g*. Is that the normal pace (Read something about ~4 "encounters" a day are expected), is this just a weirdness innate in this world and system (Forgotten Realms)?

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 07:49:50 PM »
At 11th+ level, I would expect a classic party to be immune from poison and fear from a Cleric's Heroes' Feast.

Mid to higher level dumb beatstick encounters have to have overwhelming numerical advantages, or they're a cakewalk.

Summoned meatshields, walls of x, etc. All very easy to shut it down with.

I know what encounter you're referring to, as I have run this series. The series expects well built characters, for sure.
You know you're already cheating in this particular campaign with psionics  ;)
I will say that the party's optimized Master of Many Forms was statistically on par.

The entire book really expects the players to be incredibly cautious with everything they do, this being no exception.

Here are some spoilery detailed specifics if you dare

(click to show/hide)


Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 08:18:22 PM »
If you have more than 4 (?) HD, then a dragon's Frightful Presence only makes you shaken (-2 to d20 rolls), not frightened (running away).  It piles on, but it doesn't force the party to scatter.

I have two of the three in this line of modules, but haven't run them yet, so don't know the specific encounter you are talking about.

Offline Summerstorm

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Re: Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 04:42:54 AM »
Ah, yes. Had overlooked the thing with the flying. It was described as "flying into the night after tearing out of the tower", and i thought skeletons kept their magical flight. Now that i looked up the draconomicon: skeletal dragons don't... yay... i can just levitate up and rain down death until no powerpoints left. Then somebody can finish it. Might work.

Which brings me to the second "chapter" of my rant: after that, i need to rest. Then let's say we open the tomb, fight the guardian... then i have to rest. The "fifteen"-minutes adventurer day in full action.

But ok, it isn't as difficult as i tought on first glance (Well, still depends it the dragon gets the drop on us while in reach for a full attack i guess, and if it wins initiative), or if the DM describes the encounter in a way that tells me: USE YOUR DAMN "detect psionics" or "touchsight"  :D

Read a bit farther into the module though... taking a small keep. Looks weird too. It's funny that in that section it is explicitly stated that the mercenaries in the guardroom won't reinforce fights in the courtyard, when they hear fighting sounds.

"NYARGS... some kind of adventurers attack us"
"Fast, get help... GRAHHHH, my SPINE"

Mercenaries (40 feet and one wall away): "What was that? Eh, just our slavemasters whipping the slaves, i guess. What else could it be, some attack-force taking us out?"
"Wanna check it out?"
"Are you crazy? Keep sitting down and gamble until it is our turn... eh, i mean 'tis is nothing, ignore it"

(Through the closed door):
"Wow, those Ettins were pretty tough, wanna rest up and come back tomorrow?"
"Nah, i scryed in there, just some gnolls and some dude... lets teleport in and surprise them" :lmao

Also, the sergeant of the guards seem to have a deathwish. his quarters have a trap installed, crushing the first creature to enter. His key opens the door, but doesn't deactivate the trap. (Ok, i would say he knows how to deactivate it... but would you trust a falling rock trap to not go off falsely and do you trust yourself to never make a mistake?) Deadly traps in own living quarters: Weird stuff.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 04:53:04 AM by Summerstorm »

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Encounter, Challenge Ratings and sluggish progress
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 09:42:41 AM »
Yes, the 15 minute adventure day is why I'm moving on to recharge magic next campaign :)

I think my players approached the keep with proper tactics as to not rouse adjoining rooms, so the soft way it is written was moot.

Also, when players approach a situation such as this, if they don't finish it / leave and come back, I usually add in dire consequences due to enemy preparedness. Don't burn out spell slots on chump mooks, use a freakin wand once in a while :)