Author Topic: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build  (Read 11195 times)

Offline Moogle

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[3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« on: February 19, 2014, 05:09:21 AM »
I posted about this on another forum but I didn't quite receive the help I needed before the thread died. Thus, I've come here seeking advice. Basically, I rebuilt a character about 15 minutes before a campaign started. Originally, the character was intended to be a Bard/Warblade seeking damage from Dragonfire Inspiration while using Two-Weapon Fighting and Snowflake Wardance. It was rather similar to a character I played before in a campaign with the DM. The character caught everyone off guard by being actually good for a bard; I was hands down the most valuable member of the party.
However, the DM apparently thought the feat was overpowered and banned it outright. He also banned Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords, Savage Species, Book of Exalted Deeds, and all online content from WotC. I ended up being rather stumped as to what exactly to do with the Bard as every build I came across seemed to incorporate Dragonfire Inspiration in some way and I didn't want to simply cast spells as I felt there were better classes for that.
To wrap things up I basically ended up making a rather poor Bard that I was awfully unsatisfied with. Thus I changed it into a Ranger build minutes before the first session started with the DM's permission.
I ended up with: Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Order of the Bow Initiate  1 (OotBI).
I used a build from KSB Snow Owl's Archery Build Thread which seemed good at the time. But then I realized OotBI's main class feature, Ranged Precision, is a huge trap as it forces you into only firing a single arrow each round. (And the rest of the build really doesn't seem that great, honestly.) After I realized this I tried to ask my DM if I could change my character's class levels but he said no. Apparently, it's my fault for messing up the character and I have to deal with it. I've been told even if I died intentionally I would have to play the same character again.
I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with this character now. If anyone can help me salvage this it would I would greatly appreciate it.

Offline Bard

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 08:59:32 AM »
My first suggestion is to change master, someone that bans books outright isn't someone I'd want to play with. But I realize that doesn't really solve your issue :D

Would a Swift Hunter work for you? Some scout levels, maybe a cleric dip for Travel Devotion (and maybe Knowledge Devotion), swift hunter and then ranger all the way.
There's a handbook somewhere made by Dictuum iirc

Edit: Here it is
"Playing the first 6 levels in D&D is like watching the story intro at the beginning of an action/disaster movie: it's boring and the shorter it is, the better."

Offline Moogle

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 09:14:44 AM »
Normally, I would leave the group; I've honestly thought about it. But to be fair the game itself isn't bad, I'm quite enjoying it. It's just my character who got screwed over.
Anyways, I've thought about a Swift Hunter build but was just kind of wondering if there was anything else I could do maybe even in tangent with it.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 09:21:42 AM »
Wait... so he more or less banned the character, and then told you you have to stick with something you came up with in a few minutes? Uh...

My suggestion is to keep killing the character off again and again, making a joke out of the sheer number of identical rangers showing up. And maybe you'll be allowed to change after the third time. :p

Offline Moogle

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 09:40:07 AM »
I've actually thought of doing that. But then he said if I did he would actually replace my character with a NPC and I wouldn't be part of the game at all. The only way I would get to redo my character if I died unintentionally which is unlikely as almost everything we fight seems to use melee attacks. I think between the two sessions we've done so far I've taken damage once.
The only reason I haven't left is because my friends are in it. To be fair the DM isn't an asshole or anything, the game is fun. He is just being stubborn about my character for some reason.
I almost got him to budge and let me remake the character into a Swift Hunter build the other day. But when I mentioned it had one level of Cloistered Cleric he shut it down because "there already is a cleric in the group," and didn't give me a chance to explain I was only using it for Travel Devotion. He wouldn't even let me do the build without the cleric level from there.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:45:27 AM by Moogle »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2014, 09:41:54 AM »
Wait, so he's forcing you to stick with something you aren't enjoying or... throw you out? : |

That's stupid.

Offline Moogle

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 09:56:07 AM »
Indeed, it is. I was honestly so befuddled by this that I kept pestering him for a legitimate reason and I haven't really gotten one other than that it's simply my fault and therefore it's my responsibility to deal with it. It also seems he doesn't comprehend what is actually wrong with my character. Apparently, because my character isn't doing poorly right now the build is perfectly fine and I don't have a justified reason to fix it. It seems he is afraid if I remake the character it will end up being overpowered which is not what I have intended. I just didn't want to be blatantly suboptimal and behind everyone else.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 10:03:02 AM »
What's everyone else doing?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 10:07:33 AM »
The second level ability from OotBI is actually pretty good. I'd suggest just dropping out of the PrC after 2 or 3 levels. The prereq feats are all good/mandatory except Weapon Focus, anyway. So you've not actually lost much by dipping into it (unless your DM forces you to finish PRCs, or something...).
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Moogle

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 10:11:05 AM »
I don't know what the rest of the group is doing, exactly. I just know the group is comprised of a Cleric, Druid, Wizard, and I believe a Barbarian.
Also, funny enough, I don't meet some of the requirements for OotBI in the first place. (I don't have Weapon Focus or a BAB of 5.) But somehow I doubt it will change my DM's mind. I've asked to take away only the one level in this class as a compromise and he said no. It's kind of gotten to the point where even having legitimate reasons to fix class levels probably won't change his mind.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:16:32 AM by Moogle »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 11:49:06 AM »
You're not that bad off. Some options/suggestions:

0) Get out of OotBI at level 2 (or 3 tops)
1) Pick up some Scout levels (3-5), Swift Hunter, and Greater Manyshot
4) Become a dragonborn (or ghost1) and take Flyby Attack
5) 2-3 levels of Deepwood Sniper
6) 3 levels of Peerless Archer for Power Shot (basically Power Attack with a bow). This would go very well with Fell Shot, if you add some psionics to the mix.

In particular, Fell Shot + 2 levels of Deepwood Sniper + 3 levels of Peerless Archer and a wand of the old version of Hunter's Mercy (if you can use it) = potentially massive damage in one shot.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 12:00:30 PM »
It sounds more like he's punishing you for screwing up a last-minute decision.  It also sounds like you can't do any real optimizing (or multiclassing) otherwise he'll get tetchy, if he doesn't feel it's thematic.

I'd suggest getting that 2nd level ability and maybe going more into fighter to get Weapon Specialization and then Ranged Weapon Mastery since it's much better than either Great Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Specialization.  After that, maybe more ranger levels to get spells, or if you don't want to bother with spells (or magic items that key off you having spellcasting ability like scrolls) there is the no spell ranger option in Complete Champion that trades spells for bonus feats.

I suspect you don't want to bother with an animal companion since it'd be weak and practically useless at this point, so if you take ranger past 4 there's the Distracting Attack ACF in PHB2 page 55 that trades the AC away for the ability to make targets you hit be treated as flanked.

What was the weapon you chose Weapon Focus for?  If it was a crossbow then the Crossbow Sniper feat can get you some more damage.  Aside from Dragon Magazine and a certain fighter ACF that some DMs don't allow because the book hints it's only for drow, that's pretty much the only way to get any kind of Dex to damage for ranged attacks.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 12:06:52 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline DaCraw

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 12:04:27 PM »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Offline phaedrusxy

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I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline linklord231

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 10:51:44 PM »
See if you can switch to the generally superior Sword and Fist version of Order of the Bow Initiate.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 12:05:25 PM by linklord231 »
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Offline Iainuki

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 11:19:32 AM »
Your build is fixable, your DM is not fixable.  Your DM is power-tripping at your expense, and given how they're jerking you around right now, I'd expect more of the same in the future.  If you don't want to walk, the only thing worth having from Order of the Bow Initiate is close combat shot, and that's a reasonably useful ability.  Never take more than two levels in the class, though.  After that, you need to chase damage because archery doesn't get much by default with smaller dice than are available with melee weapons and no 1.5 Str to damage.  Swift Hunter, Greater Many Shot, and straight ranger after the necessary scout levels is definitely the most straightforward approach.  Spellcasting is one of the strengths of rangers with Swift Hunter, a lot of ranger spells are very helpful for archers.  It won't be as good as if you'd built for it from the beginning (the fighter levels in particular will hurt) but it will probably be adequate.   Other than that, you're looking at more exotic options.  Aside from skirmish, most of the abilities that give damage for melee don't work with archery at all, and the major remaining one, sneak attack, is hard to pull off at range because you can't generally flank with ranged weapons.  The reason that casters make good archers is that there are buffs that apply to attacks with bows that can serve as a damage source.  There are some archery-specific classes that add damage like arcane archer and soulbow, but since your DM is a jerk I don't know if they'll allow them since they will require picking up arcane spells or pisonics.  Other people in the thread have covered some of the more baroque combinations for adding damage.

Offline Moogle

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 12:07:54 AM »
BREAKING NEWS: I bought the DM a taco, he let me remake the character.
I'm now Scout 5/Ranger 2. I have a kind of complicated reason for taking more than 4 levels of Scout, just roll with it. I think I'm mostly set now with the character but if anyone has any more advice for this build I would still appreciate it. This campaign is actually tougher than anything I've ever been in. Although, to be fair it may simply be because the other ones were too easy. People are actually being incapacitated.

Offline X-Codes

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 01:43:19 AM »
5 levels of scout is fine.  You get Evasion sooner (which might actually be important if your DM thinks a Snowflake Wardancing Bard/Warblade is too powerful, but a Cleric, Druid, and Wizard are all perfectly acceptable), and you can trade out the Ranger's Evasion for one of a number of good ACF's like Ray Deflection from Complete Mage.  It's not typical, but it's certainly not bad.  The Ranger spell list also has a very limited scope of good things, so I'd recommend spending your 9th-level feat on Sword of the Arcane Order.  It lets you prepare Wizard spells in Ranger slots, but I think that, more importantly, it should let you use wands of Wizard spells without having to deal with UMD (whether or not it actually works that way is up to debate, as is pretty much everything else about the feat because of it's horrible wording).


Offline Sunspear

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Re: [3.5] Salvaging a Ranger Build
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2014, 11:06:22 AM »
Since you're going down the Swift Hunter path, I'd recommend checking out Soulbow and/or Kensai for Lucky/Splitting enhancements. Soulbow can arguably go down the TWF path as well. If so, you'll want to dip Cleric for Travel Devotion.