What is a good Arcane Warrior (not Duskblade)

[Mizter0oz]

Currently I am trying to make a arcane character with melee capability. The game is in dragon Lance (loosely) and very little is restricted (Thruge and Binder so far). I was thinking of making a Fighter Warmage, using the feat to increase his armor to medium. Currently he is 4th level and the prospects of going to 10th are slow and long. The group is made up of almost entirely 3rd tier characters with a Bard, Sorcerer, Paladin, Druid and Scout; only the scout is min-maxed. We just had our barbarian die and now his replacement the paladin is basically the only fighter.

I was thinking of using shocking grasp a lot for low level high damage and I am trying to avoid the Dusk-blade.

I don’t want to be a weak character, I hate not having magic while playing D&D (to many survivalist games with no magic). Most of all I hate making a character that lacks during game. However we have a sorcerer so I don’t want to step on his toes.

The alternative characters I have thought of are Barbarian (pounce) Scout or Warlock “Glaivelock focus”



I would appreciate any ideas on what to make

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I am assuming Psionics is out as well?

[NunoM]

What's so wrong with Duskblade?! Sorry, i've been playing one and i'm loving it...

Anyway, that will also depend on the type of character you want to play... If blasting isn't your deal, but you want to use magic, maybe a "martial-debuffer" like the Hexblade, or a sneakier type, like the Beguiler.

I'm not (at all!) an expert min-maxer, but Fighter/Warmage doesn't synergize very well, as CHA is usually a dump stat for the Fighter and the Warmage uses INT for greater damage. You end up with a character needing, at least, 3 good stats to make it work (STR, INT and CHA), considering you need DEX and WIS to make up for light armor AC and weaker saves... well, you get the picture.

If you're going Warmage, a popular combo is Warmage/Rainbow Servant. I haven't checked it in depth, but at least you end up with needing a single good stat (CHA) and others at more average levels.

[Frogman55]

If you have a very permissive GM, you could always try the arcane swordsage.

I've never seen a real one allowed off the ground though, so I couldn't give any suggestions on how to actually build and run one.

[Iainuki]

What do you want to do with your spells?  I assume you want to do damage with a melee weapon.

[xzyx]

IF pathfinder is allowed, there is the magus and the alchemist, tough they are quite different in the way they "gish".

If not, there's still binder, lots of psionics classes and builds, the abjurant champion wizard, a druid (tough not arcane), the dread necromancer (in some builds at least), the warlock, the jade phoenix mage, the runesmith, the sentinel of bharrai (tough it's a weird one)... Really, so many options.

Take a look at the gish handbook: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786

[Mizter0oz]

Ya no psionic (Elan Ardent is my favorite); and no pathfinder


It is going ot have to be in a book some where, nothing weird Like magic of incarnium or Binder, and my DM has already suggested he will limit stuff form ToB and ToM


I hadn't thought about the attribute limitations (now I really need some help)

As for the Dusk Blade, it wouldn't be received well, it is a awesome class however.

The book is very helpful and again kills the Warmage gish

I only have 4 levels to play with however and progression is slow. O ya and no magic items.

[Jackinthegreen]

Swordsage is from Tome of Battle.  Arcane Swordsage is an adaptation of it that allows using spells in place of maneuvers.

You don't seem to have the tier stuff right since only the bard in the group is Tier 3, although the scout might come close given the minmax you said the player is doing.  Otherwise, the paladin is Tier 5, the sorcerer is Tier 2, and the druid is Tier 1.  If you're shooting for Tier 3 stuff then duskblade is a fine choice, although you'll rightfully make the paladin feel weaker unless said paladin has actually done some homework and is built to not suck.

If you're going for a gish and won't have magic items then wizard/fighter going into Abjurant Champion might work well since it at least gets you the Shield spell up quite often, which grants more AC for you.  Depending on what the sorcerer is doing you might be able to do sorcerer/ Abjurant Champion instead and not be treading on his toes.  Using buff spells like Greater Magic Weapon will be a big thing.

[brujon]

If you're more into melee than into Magic, Swiftblade might be the way to go. It's strong, it fits the warrior/mage thing... Can't actually be viable at level 4, but... It's an option for later on.

[Maat Mons]

Battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana, p56) manages to be a gish right out of the gate, like duskblade.  If you're really worried about being too much like the other sorcerer, you can take advantage of this option from Oriental Adventures:

Sorcerers can use either the wizard/sorcerer spell list from the Player's Handbook or the wu jen spell list in chapter 7.

[Mizter0oz]

The battle sorcerer seems perfect, does anyone know of some good spells that fit well for combat.

[brujon]

The Gish Handbook has a list of spell recommendations. It has been mentioned here already, but some may want to take note that it has been ported to the new forums by now: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8881

Also, SorO_Lost has graced us with this nifty little handbook: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11530

The Arcane Duelist is very powerful and shouldn't be underestimated, but it is a late-game build.

[Waazraath]

The battle sorcerer seems perfect, does anyone know of some good spells that fit well for combat.

I'd consider the stalward battle sorcerer, even more gishy, and go into abjurant champion as soon as possible. You can get extra spells with the bloodline feats in the Dragon Compendium (earth, probably). Spell selection with 4 levels would give two first level spells, for example shield and fist of stone, one second level spell, like wraithstrike or alter self, and from the bloodline you'd get enlarge person and shatter. Together with light armor, weapon proficiency and weapon focus with a glaive or a greatsword, and you should do fine.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana, p56) manages to be a gish right out of the gate, like duskblade.  If you're really worried about being too much like the other sorcerer, you can take advantage of this option from Oriental Adventures:

Sorcerers can use either the wizard/sorcerer spell list from the Player's Handbook or the wu jen spell list in chapter 7.

Woah thats the first Time I have seen that option. It opens up a few possibilites

[NunoM]

If you choose an approach closer to martial than to casting, i may suggest "True Strike" for those times when you *really* have to hit something.

You said magic items are off limits. Are weapon mods allowed? A gish could really benefit from a wand chamber. Get a wand of "Shield" (to make up for a lack of shield w/ 2-handed weapons) or "Blade of Blood" (for some extra damage) and it's a win, IMO.

EDIT: A good (situational) substitute for the "Blade of Blood" wand is "Whirling Blade". As a gish, i assume you'll be holding a weapon most of the time, so striking with all your melee might from a good distance sounds like a good idea.

[Keldar]

He said Dragonlance and no one has yet suggested Knight of the Thorn PrC?  Its at least a flavorful way to get some ACF reduction on a Gish build at the minimum.  Though it is eeeeeevil.

[Mizter0oz]

The battle sorcerer got shot down; hopefully the Stalwart Sorcerer and the armored mage (fighter) will work out.

Thank you everyone for your help,

Mizter0oz

[Kasz]

What about a Sword of the Arcane Order Ranger? Just throwing it out as a suggestion.

[linklord231]

A Mystic Fire Knight paladin with Sword of the Arcane Order wouldn't be bad. 

[Jackinthegreen]

Given the OP might not be familiar with all the ACFs, Mystic Fire Knight is from Champions of Valor page 45.  Sword of the Arcane Order is a feat from the same book, found on page 34.

Mister0oz, if you'd lie to see a full list of ACFs the check out http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8732.0.  Hopefully you can find something you like for the arcane warrior shtick.