One shot, one kill - feasible in 3.5?

[Sunspear]

As we all know, you generally need full attacks to do real damage. As we also all know, archery is generally pretty gimped on damage.

My question/challenge is if it is possible to make a sniper build that does massive damage on a single shot, round after round.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking the best option is a Rogue/Scout/OotBI Swift Ambusher build, but TBH that seems extremely lacking and I'm sure there's better... right?

[Rebel7284]

Artificer using wands to blast is probably the best archer you can get.  Persisted Unfettered Heroism and you can do it all day.

If you want to avoid magic, I am afraid it's impossible to get a truly impressive number.

[Demelain]

Artificer using wands to blast is probably the best archer you can get.  Persisted Unfettered Heroism and you can do it all day.

If you want to avoid magic, I am afraid it's impossible to get a truly impressive number.

I have no books available at the moment, but doesn't CSc have an Ambush feat that lets you trade Precision damage for Ability damage?
With enough Precision damage to trade, you might be able to down things in one shot that way.

But, it might not work because I only have a hazy recollection regarding such things.

[Nytemare3701]

Clustered Shots (Pathfinder)

Even better, it counts for triggering massive damage.

[Sunspear]

Clustered Shots is still multiple attacks, with multiple rolls. Trying to minimize magic if possible.

So far I don't think I've managed to eclipse 75 avg a round

[snakeman830]

I'll see what I can come up with.  Magic items I assume are still okay?  May need a wand.

[altpersona]

an empowered maximized eldrich blast can hit fairly hard.

warlock/hellfire = 14d6, max 84 + 7d6.

loose a couple d6 for going el'theurge.

Spellblast to add a max / empowered (hopefully) spell effect to your eb.

and find a few SA dice to add it.

it should be well better than 75 before saves.

[PixelHead777]

I'm assuming we're aiming for the use of bows, thrown weapons, or guns?

And we're looking for maximum damage from a single attack roll.

Hrrm.

[Jackinthegreen]

What sources can be used?  If Dragon Mag is allowed there's the targetteer fighter in Dragon 310 that can get dex to damage and trade attacks from a full attack action to increase the weapon's crit range by 1 for each sacrificed shot on a full attack.  The third ability it has is Arrow Storm, which is a -5 to attack to gain two extra attacks.  It's possible to combine it with Aura of Perfect Order to ensure each hit is always a crit since it's limited to one use per round.  It might be possible to make the bolts or arrows of a weapon be Kaorti Resin and thus gain x4 crit, although it's arguable on whether it adds x4 crit to whatever range like 18-20, or if it makes the full crit description be be 20/x4.

Regardless, if the targetteer is allowed then that's 1x dex to damage.  Add the Dead Eye feat for another 1x to damage, and then the crossbow sniper feat adds a .5x, for a total of 2.5x dex to damage on the ranged damage roll.  A generous interpretation of crossbow sniper is it technically doesn't require the crossbow used to be hand, light, or heavy, so a great crossbow might see use for its 18-20 crit range.  It's possible (with some cheese) to get the great crossbow down to a free action reload through the Aptitude weapon enhancement in ToB and either the Rapid Reload feat or Hand Crossbow Focus.

This is for a full 20 build I'm guessing?

Since ToB might be on the table, perhaps the Ranged Compatible ToB Maneuvers handbook might work for you?

Makes me curious if anyone has ever combined the Aura of Perfect Order stance with the targetteer's Sniper ability.  If not, new build time!


A roundabout method to get good damage on a single "ranged" attack might be the Bloodstorm Blade from ToB.  It allows for using melee stuff on a thrown weapon, so Power Attack can be multiplied by something like a Frenzied Berserker's PA boosting abilities.  And melee maneuvers can be used with the thrown weapon as well.


Edit:  I suspect there might be a way to use the Charming The Arrow feat found at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a to synergize with a huge Charisma.  The X stat to Y bonus thread has quite a bit of possibilities for Cha keying to various things.

[X-Codes]

If we don't care about long range, then Manyshot can do it if we stack damage modifiers that are not precision-based.  A particularly potent option might be the Elf Paladin sub-level that makes Smite Evil a ranged attack instead of melee.  Smite Evil also applies to one attack (which Manyshot is), and damage is rolled normally for each arrow.  Therefore, with a 16th-level Elf Paladin Manyshotting 4 arrows into something, we're talking 4d8+64 damage before Strength and the like comes into account.

If we want distance, then Assassins have a spell that makes their next sneak attack unlimited range (I don't remember the name because such a spell is too niche to be genuinely useful), and you can go into Unseen Seer from the Assassin class to grab Hunter's Eye and boost your sneak attack dice.

[Jackinthegreen]

Sniper's Shot.  It's not just assassins that get it.

Though both are swift action spells that last for one round, so it would be difficult to keep both up long enough to usually be meaningful.  If we really wanted to go nuts though, an Archivist with a cleric or sacred exorcist dip could DMM persist both.  Add in Divine Power to make up for the poor BAB perhaps and he's in business.

[Sunspear]

Not to be a debbie downer ... but I'm not quite sure how I'd feel about Manyshot/Arrow Storm fulfilling the "one-shot" criteria. I guess it IS a single attack roll... but from a flavor perspective it isn't quite what comes to mind. I guess I was hoping more for "sniper with .50 cal blows giant hole in chest" flavor rather than "sniper fires deadly 3-round burst."

I am indeed aiming at full 20 build. All 3.5/3.0 sources are in play. Magic items are fine/expected.

Any thoughts on Deepwood Sniper and a great crossbow? It takes advantage of the natural crit range, and then it could be paired with Crossbow Sniper, Dead Eye, and Targeteer stuff. In fact, by "sacrificing" 2 attacks from a full attack via Sniper, you'd be looking at an 11-20 crit range with a x4 critical.

[kitep]

First you raise your STR to 810.  Next get a composite bow for +400 damage/shot.  Then ....

An assassin has a "Death Attack"

Death Attack
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

No magic required, although you'll probably use magic to raise the DC.

There's also arrows of slaying.

[Iainuki]

With the surge of fortune spell, you can force a critical.  Isn't there an ability that can let you use smites at range somewhere out there?  If you could stack the spell with a boosted critical multiplier on a bow, some large critical confirmation bonus, and a ranged smite, you should be able to get reasonably high damage.

[Waazraath]

Using the idea of doing ability damage, the soulbow is a good option. Using the 'knife to the soul' ability of Soulknife 13, you can trade 1d8 psychic strike damage for 1 int, wis, or cha damage. A build like soulknife 14 / soulbow 1 / illumine soul 4 / soulknife +2 does 6d8 psycic strike, so 6 ability damage to a mental score. Add in manyshot and fell shot, and as a touch attack you can do 18 ability damage to any  mental stat. Should do the trick against most opponents.

[Waazraath]

With the surge of fortune spell, you can force a critical.  Isn't there an ability that can let you use smites at range somewhere out there?  If you could stack the spell with a boosted critical multiplier on a bow, some large critical confirmation bonus, and a ranged smite, you should be able to get reasonably high damage.

There is a ranged smite exalted feat in the book of exalted deeds, and I think it's an elf paladin substitution level as well.

[Kasz]

I remember doing the math behind the "distance" element a while ago. 
A Cragtop Archer with a Dragonbone bow, with Farshot and Distance etc. Can make 1 attack as a full action ignoring penalties for shooting at extreme range. Some deepwood sniper added in helps with damage and synergises well. Glass of Distance allows you to see upto 10 miles. 
 
The Pieces

(click to show/hide)

4 levels in Cragtop Archer gets:
Strike From Above (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, the cragtop archer gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls when making a ranged attack from higher ground than her target.

Arcing Shot (Ex): The cragtop archer of 3rd level and higher can fire a high, arcing shot to gain greater range with her projectile weapon. Any time the cragtop archer can fire a projectile weapon in an area with at least 40 feet of clearance between her position and the ceiling (or any other overhead obstruction, such as a forest canopy), her maximum range with the projectile weapon is fifteen range increments rather than the normal ten range increments.

Horizon Shot (Su): From 4th level on, the cragtop archer can seemingly hit targets as far away as the horizon as easily as she can hit something nearby. As a full-round action, the cragtop archer can make a single attack with a projectile weapon. This attack is made with no penalty for range, though it still has the same maximum range as a normal attack by the cragtop archer. This ability can be used in conjunction with any ability that extends the range of a projectile weapon, such as the Far Shot feat or the cragtop archer's arcing shot ability.

 
Cragtop Archer: +2 to damage, 15 range increments, no penalty for extreme range. 
 
I used a Great Crossbow from Sword and Fist for the 150ft default range increment, but you could drop the range to 120 and go with the great crossbow from races of stone and trade up damage wise from 1d12 to 2d8. Or change to Greatbow, 120ft range, 1d10 but a x3 crit. I'm not sure if you could make Kaorti Bolts for a x4 crit...they're piercing... in which case the crossbow's better. 
 
Dragonbone, increases range of a ranged weapon by 20ft, adds composite...which helps.

10 levels of Deepwood Sniper, enhances your criticals quite a lot, enhances range, poison use, rerolls... all good stuff.

Distance doubles range. Farshot increases range even further.

This puts us at a base range increment of 170ft, distance'd to 340ft, Far Shot'd to 510ft with an extra 100ft from deepwood. So 610ft. Hmmm That's only 9150ft, or 1.7 miles... my original was over double that but I forget how... anyway, it's within 10 miles so we can see through our "scope". 
 
Kaorti Bolts would have a 16-20 critical for x5 damage. Which isn't terrible... we have poison use... could poison an arrow of slaying and add splitting to our bow. That means each shot forces 2 saves vs death and 2 saves vs poison which could easily be death.

We can also use the scope to teleport to the target and retrieve anything we need from the body.

I think I forgot ranged weapon mastery and flight arrows... also I'm not sure which order you apply all the multipliers and increases, I just know the extra 100ft from deepwood comes after farshot, as evidenced in the example given with the class.

I know this is a 1 shot 1 kill thread, but this was the closest I had to it, 1 shot, multiple saves vs death, works well with leadership for artificer of ammomaking (although what doesn't work well with leadership for an artificer?)

[Sunspear]

I think I've decided to rule out Manyshot, since it is technically multiple arrows. This unfortunately rules out knife to soul and lots of damage stacking. HOWEVER, the  Targeteer Sniper ability is still valid for canceling other attacks, since that is benefiting a single attack (higher crit chance).

This is what I came up with:

Targeteer 4/Ranger 2/ Deepwood Sniper 7/OotBI 7
Feats: Vital Shot, Sniper, Arrow Swarm, Weapon Focus, PBS, Precise Shot, Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Imp. Precise Shot, Dead Eye, True Believer
Gear: Energy Bow, Raptor Arrows, Gloves of Dex +6, Tome of Dex +1

Core principle is milking crits via Sniper and DWS. With full BAB and Arrow Storm, you get 6 attacks, 5 of which get converted to threat range. Keen doubles that, giving you a 9-20 range. With a whole bunch of hit and the ability to Power Shot (via Energy Bow), you can convert that excess hit to damage, which also gets multipled on crit. Being a single attack, we get to add OotBI precision damage.

Math:

Base: 20 bab, 4 attacks, 30 dex (18+5 from levels +7 items), 2d6
Hit bonus: +2 (wf/gwf) + 1(PBS) + 2 rwm +2 (raptor) + 10(dex) = +17
Damage Bonus: + 2(ws) + 1 (PBS) + 2 rwm + 2d6 raptor + 20 (dex/dead eye/vital) + 2 take aim = 27 + 2d6 + 4d8 + 2d6 base = 27+7+18 +7= 59 avg w/o crit
170 + 4d8 + 2d6 on crit = 195 avg on crit

4 attacks at +37
Arrow Storm = +2 attacks, -5 hit
6 attacks at + 32
Sniper = -5 attacks, +5 threat range (20-> 15-20)
DWS Keen = 15-20 -> 9-20

59 x 8/20 + 195 x 12/20 = 23.6 + 117 = 141 average damage per round

Each point of Power Shot will add 3.4 expected damage. As an example:

10 power attack base = 69 avg
10 power attack crit = 220 + 4d8 + 2d6 = 245 avg
69 x 8/20 + 245 x 12/20 =  27.6  + 147 = 175 w/ 10 Power Attack

[sirpercival]

Bloodstorm Blade + Stormguard Warrior?

[Jackinthegreen]

Core principle is milking crits via Sniper and DWS. With full BAB and Arrow Storm, you get 6 attacks, 5 of which get converted to threat range. Keen doubles that, giving you a 9-20 range. With a whole bunch of hit and the ability to Power Shot (via Energy Bow), you can convert that excess hit to damage, which also gets multipled on crit. Being a single attack, we get to add OotBI precision damage.

Unless you're playing with slightly different rules, the Targetteer's Sniper ability does not count for purposes of Keen.  What would happen in the case of a regular bow with 20/x3 crit is it would double the range to 19-20/x3, and then add on the Sniper ability.  Sacrificing 5 attacks would then put the crit range at 14-20/x3.  It is only the base crit chance of the weapon itself that gets multiplied by Keen effects.

Also, to use the Sniper ability the character must use a full round action.  The Ranged Precision ability for the OotBI is a standard action to use, thus it won't work, unless you're using the 3.0 version from Sword and Fist which has ranged Sneak Attack instead.