Author Topic: What spells to persist with Incantatrix? Magic item suggestions? (cleaned up)  (Read 22704 times)

Offline Mister Freeze

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The build (any thoughts on it are also welcome):
(click to show/hide)

Basically, I have an int mod of 15, meaning I can retroactively apply a metamagic feat to a spell that's been cast 18 times per day.  I can also persist and/or extend spells of lower levels without this.  I am therefore going to just devote spell slots every day to recasting an alternating set of 48 hour buffs.  A bead of karma will give me +4 CL during my buff routine, meaning anything with an hours/level duration only needs to be extended.  A rod of extend nets me another 3 uses of that feat.

In particular, miracle will let me get 48 hours of any 2 divine spells of 8th level or lower, so I'd appreciate input on what the best uses of that would be.  Favor of the martyr is hard to top, but I could be talked out of divine power.  Sanctuary is a spell I'd love if anyone can think of a way to get it, but I'm not ready to drop divine power for it. 

Any spells or magic items you think I should add to this this are most welcome, as are ways I could increase my int.  I'm just compiling a list of candidates right now, being put on the list doesn't mean it will make the cut.  The spoiler box at the bottom contains the digital equivalent of scratch paper, you'll be able to see spells I've considered that didn't make the cut in there. 

Ways to defend against dispelling would also be appreciated, I've never played with a huge buff stack before.  I'm currently at 31CL for the purposes of dispelling by 20 base CL, +4 ring of enduring arcana, +4 bead of karma during casting, a +1 ring of arcane might, and a +2 talisman of the 12 moons (UMD allows me to pretend I'm a shifter with wild shape).  Duelward will be among the first spells I cast in encounters (immediate action counterspell without readying an action). 

Current ability scores after buffs and items: 30/30/34/40/26/24
I lose my strength score while in ghostform, however.  Ghostform is dismissable if being incorporeal is ever a problem. 
Touch AC: 10 + 10 dex + 8 wis +1 monk's belt + 30 deflection + 2 insight +1 dodge -1 size = 61  Regular AC is 62 from bracers of armor.
Saves: 37/31/38, and 42/36/43 against spells and spell like abilities (spellstrike weapon property)

Spells per day of each level, factoring out the slots devoted to alternating 48 hour buffs, slots devoted to archmage abilities, and mentioning additional spells from the divination domain in parantheses:
(click to show/hide)

The cleaned up buff list I'll be using:
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Magic items:
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Total so far is 585,500, giving me 174,500 to spend on my spellbook and components. 

What now amounts to my scratch paper, including buffs dropped from consideration, below
(click to show/hide)





« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 09:19:00 PM by Mister Freeze »

Offline OutlawPhilosopher

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 01:53:14 AM »
Shapechange?
Greater Consumptive Field?
Greater Dimension Jumper?

Not sure how useful it is, but Lightning Ring is amusing.

Someone with more rules-fu than I have could tell you, but I think Miracle is not a legitimate target for extend or persist because it doesn't have a duration, even when it emulates a divine spell. I could easily be wrong here.

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 02:03:27 AM »
Y'know, come to think, I'm taking the transmutation domain anyway.  I need to have shapechange prepared every day.  There's no reason not to persist it.  Kudos to you for making me realize this!  Dimension jumper is a good idea, but it leaves me in a quandary, because there will be time when I want to use my swift action for other things, and also there will be times when I need my move action for other things.  It kills me that they didn't put move->swift action conversion in by RAW, but I'm pretty sure I'd be able to swing this as reasonable. 

For miracle, even though it doesn't have a duration itself, once it duplicates a spell, that spell then has a duration, which in my mind is persistable. 

Now I need to think about shapechange forms.
edit: and done thinking: Chronotyryn wins, for being able to take 2 full actions per turn.  Plus other good stats.
edit: also, switched to divination domain
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 02:18:01 AM by Mister Freeze »

Offline Esgath

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 09:55:59 AM »
How about Superior Invisibility or Greater Mirror Image?

Offline Shadowhunter

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 09:59:46 AM »
A spell I think every Incantatrix should persist is Loresong from dragon magazine 335.

Quote
Loresong
Divination
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

You gain temporary mastery in a skill, even one that you have never studied before. When you complete this spell, select a single skill (other than Speak Language). You gain a +4 competence bonus on all checks with it, with an additional +1 bonus for every 2 caster levels, and you may use it untrained.

You pick Spellcraft naturally.

As for Greater Heroism, Miracle can copy any 8th cleric spell or lower or ANY 7th spell or lower from ANY class.
Greater Heroism is a 5th level Bard spell.

Offline Sobolev

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 11:10:09 AM »
Ways to defend against dispelling would also be appreciated, I've never played with a huge buff stack before.


Ring of Counterspells, and the Greater Version, with Dispel Magic or the Greater Version in them.

Offline Tshern

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 12:56:17 PM »
Ring of Enduring Arcana from Complete Mage is cheap and gives +4 effective CL against dispels. Then, of course, you can just pump your CL.
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Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 05:05:06 PM »
How about Superior Invisibility or Greater Mirror Image?

I want to be able to interact with people in a town setting to a limited extent, so these are out.  It's why I have mask of the ideal and reflective disguise up there.  I am aware that I'm screwed as soon as I'm talking to people of two different genders, because one will see me as a man, the other will see me as a woman, and as soon as a gendered pronoun comes out the jig is going to be up.  Since I'll be incorporeal, if anyone tries to touch me or notices how eerily silent my movements are, that'd also be a dead giveaway.  But better than nothing I suppose.

A spell I think every Incantatrix should persist is Loresong from dragon magazine 335.


I love it.

Counterspelling defense suggestions appreciated too! 

Also, there's been a fairly significant change to the build, I had to drop piercing cold, because I noticed how awesome the destiny domain is.  I'm now persisting choose destiny. 

Also, I realized mage armor and shield won't work due to forceward.  What other sources of armor and shield bonuses are there?  I might cave in and do luminous armor, but I'm going to be true neutral, so I'd rather not get mixed up in the morality quagmire of BoED.  I'll be wearing a monk's belt for wis to AC, so real armor is out.  I'd prefer not to use an animated shield, probably not worth the GP cost, because my touch AC currently sits at 58 (10+8wis+8dex+30def+2insight+1dodge-1size).  My soulfire bracers of armor put my non-touch AC at 59.  Any more tricks to bump my touch AC would also be useful. 

Saves currently sit at 33/28/37 if I can triple persist ruin delver's fortune, with -6 to each if I can't. 

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 08:23:30 PM »
You actually have most of the bases covered. Keep in mind that incantrix is waaaaaaaay more powerful than DMM if it is ruled to ignore persist's strict spell description requirements... because that's the only thing holding it back.

Oddly enough I'm having difficulty finding solid persistable buffs that aren't over the top in the 7th & 8th level range :(

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 08:38:36 PM »
You actually have most of the bases covered. Keep in mind that incantrix is waaaaaaaay more powerful than DMM if it is ruled to ignore persist's strict spell description requirements... because that's the only thing holding it back.

Oddly enough I'm having difficulty finding solid persistable buffs that aren't over the top in the 7th & 8th level range :(

I didn't think I had any spells that didn't fit persists criteria, did I miss any?  On that note, I've got things down to where I can 48 hour persist every buff that isn't strikethroughed, gobbling up all my uses of metamagic effect and an extended rod.  Without using instant metamagic, too.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:42:16 PM by Mister Freeze »

Offline X-Codes

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 08:40:30 PM »
You may not want to use them all for yourself.  Even relatively weak spellcasters like Paladins and Rangers have some persistable stuff that's good, and helping out a Cleric with some Persists will do wonders as well.

EDIT: Actually, you can do that with Cooperative Metamagic, too.  That said, you are 1 spellcaster, and your party could, potentially, contain far more than that, so the above still applies to some degree.

Offline liquid150

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Re: What spells to persist with Incantatrix?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 09:30:16 PM »
Starmantle + Ghostform

Offline Mister Freeze

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I looked at starmantle, but with a touch AC that's now at 60, and having ghostform already, I don't feel like it adds much. 

And yeah, cooperative metamagic is the only thing I know I'll probably contribute.  I don't know what the others are playing yet. 

Offline liquid150

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I looked at starmantle, but with a touch AC that's now at 60, and having ghostform already, I don't feel like it adds much. 

And yeah, cooperative metamagic is the only thing I know I'll probably contribute.  I don't know what the others are playing yet.
Why bother with AC at all? You are a wizard, you just say lolwut to everything that attacks you.

Offline Mister Freeze

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The only place I really went out of my way for more touch AC was the monk's belt, which is cheap with WBL.  Otherwise I wanted a high dex for better touch attacks, and adding scintillating scales to turn the NA bonus (given to me by spells I'm using anyway for different reasons) into a deflection bonus. 

Right now I'm currently bummed that miracle can't be an archmage SLA.  Stupid arcane disciple 1/day limit. -_-

Offline liquid150

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The only place I really went out of my way for more touch AC was the monk's belt, which is cheap with WBL.  Otherwise I wanted a high dex for better touch attacks, and adding scintillating scales to turn the NA bonus (given to me by spells I'm using anyway for different reasons) into a deflection bonus. 

Right now I'm currently bummed that miracle can't be an archmage SLA.  Stupid arcane disciple 1/day limit. -_-
True, it is cheap, but you can still use that money for other stuff like pumping important things like initiative or saves. Having a high touch AC is not necessarily important with miss chances and being able to just flat out say "no" to things like rays. With a few carefully selected spells, you simply just laugh at all attempts to attack you in melee, and you LOL at rays. After that, you don't really care about being struck. Miss chances like Permeable Form/Ghostform, Greater Blink, Greater Mirror Image, etc. are one thing...but with Archmage you have Arcane Reach, you persist Mystic Shield and Ghostform or Starmantle (sorry about the last post, I meant to say Mystic Shield). You are now completely immune to melee in all forms. Then you persist Friendly Fire and you laugh forever at all ranged attacks. You're also immune to 6th level and below spells.

Having a high AC on a wizard is not necessary, nor is it a preferable way to avoid damage.

You could spend that 13k on something like a Spellstrike Sleeve Blade or something and cast GMW on it for a stacking +5 to saves. You already have saves in spades, but there are other options as well.

Offline Mister Freeze

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Again, I'd like to be somewhat presentable in towns via reflective disguise so I'm leery of things such as blink and GMI that at level 20 are also going to easily be defeated by true seeing. 

Where is mystic shield found?  If it's a force effect either way I can't use it due to forceward.

Spellstrike rocks, definitely adding that. 

Permeable form I'm a little sketchy on because it could be considered Tsochar only, but I'll probably end up adding it anyway, to get myself an 8th level slot back after moving loresong down elsewhere.

I just realized I don't have ray deflection in here anywhere, and feel silly. 

Offline liquid150

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Sorry, I guess I wasn't entirely clear. I'm advocating using the following instead of GMI, etc.

Mystic Shield
Starmantle/Ghostform
Friendly Fire or Ray Deflection

Mystic Shield is from Anauroch: Empire of Shade. It makes you immune to all spells and SLA's of 6th level and below while still allowing your own buffs to work. It also makes all attacks against you lose their magical properties.

Starmantle works in conjuction with Mystic Shield, making all non-magical attacks (now all of them) do no harm, and in fact destroys the weapon used to attack. Ghostform makes you immune to non-magical attacks (all of them) and gives some other benefits as well, but might be something you want to avoid to move around in town.

Friendly Fire is just like Ray Deflection, and is from Exemplars of Evil. Extend the casting time to allow it to last 1 round/level as written, so it's persistent instead. You may deflect any ranged attack to another target within 30 feet. If your DM rules that this requires another target within 30 feet to work, use Ray Deflection instead and rely on the previously mentioned defenses to cancel arrows, etc.

Offline X-Codes

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Note that Mystic Shield requires shenanigans to be persistable.

Offline Mister Freeze

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Hot dog mystic shield is awesome.  Damn that material component though.  Still, if that becomes the only spell on my persist list with a material component, it of all things is worth it.  A range of touch counts as a fixed range in my book, so that's not a worry. 

edit:
[/quote]
Ghostform makes you immune to non-magical attacks (all of them) and gives some other benefits as well, but might be something you want to avoid to move around in town.


Actually, with my adamantine feathers, boar's head, flaying tendrils, and other....eccentricities, I think ghostform is a net plus, due to reflective disguise not concealing auditory and olfactory issues.   :D
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 07:17:21 PM by Mister Freeze »