3.5 Sha'ir Justification

[Hangwind]

All right, my problem is this: I have a build idea of using Sha'ir with Mystic Theurge to get double progression on my spells. It has already been decided that the Sha'ir is a dual Divine/Arcane class so please don't argue that point. What I need is a RAW justification for saying Mystic theurge would advance my spells twice per level. Any Ideas? Thanks!

[Keldar]

No.

[StreamOfTheSky]

No.

You're being too kind, good sir.

FUCK NO.

[Jackinthegreen]

Simply put, Theurge type classes require two -different- classes for entry as well as progression.  As the sha'ir is a single class, it cannot enter on its own, nor could it gain the benefit of the double progression anyway.

All that aside, the very idea of this should be murdered with extreme prejudice.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Something like Sha'ir X / Nar Demonbinder 1 / MT Y.
Sha'ir = gen or genies , Efreet (genies) could be semi-demons easily.
I suppose Sha'ir / UrPriest / MT could be OK
... not sure about the fluff on this one.
Certainly not for the historic real life inspiration.

... It has already been decided that the Sha'ir is a dual Divine/Arcane class so please don't argue that point ...

Houserule #1a

... What I need is a RAW justification for saying Mystic theurge would advance my spells twice per level. Any Ideas? Thanks!

(missing) Houserule #1b , the other half of Houserule #1(a+b)


**

Gestalt Wizard // Archivist as one type of mechanics
and Cleric // Sorceror as the other type of mechanics,
you can put Sha'ir somewhere in the middle
and go a pseudo-gestalt/double Sha'ir with the MT levels.
Yeah sure, wtf you come up with, is no problem for houserules.
Just understand you're doing Homegame + Tier 1s + shenanigans.

[Hangwind]

@ Keldar: Um, are you saying no to the basic idea or to finding solid reasons?
@SOTS: Please keep things civil.
@JackintheGreen: How do you figure that two classes are needed for entry the requirements are

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks. Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.

Nothing is ever said as to needing two different classes.
@awaken_D_M_golem: It's not really a houserule, after all, the only requirement to be a divine caster is casting divine spells and the text for Sha'ir specifically states that it casts divine spells.

A sha'ir is capable of extraordinarily versatile spellcasting because he can use arcane spells as well as a limited selection of divine spells.

Therefore, by RAW, he is a Divine caster.

Is there anything that you can think of that can be advanced twice as fast with a little cheese?

[PixelHead777]

If you're looking for ungodly cheese, this thread really shoulda been in the Min/Max board.

Even then, I'll reiterate what the first three responses said: This is Stupid.

[Jackinthegreen]

Is there anything that you can think of that can be advanced twice as fast with a little cheese?

The cheese in this case is something that would definitely go in the "You Break It, You Buy It" forum, if the interpretation of going Mystic Theurge is to fast track it.  It is game-breakingly cheesy, hence the responses you're getting.  Yeah, there are those who are sticklers from RAW on these boards, but I'd be surprised if any of them would ever try to pass this off as anything but Theoretical Optimization.

It is also very much against intent of the rules in the first place.  All theurge PrCs are meant to be entered by two distinct classes because having a PrC double advance a single class, especially a full casting class, is simply too powerful for the game.  Dragon Mag is often called "D&D beta" because of situations such as this:  It's a testing ground for ideas, and they almost always need refinement.

Simply put, you're in munchkin territory with this idea.  It does seem it works RAW, but of note is the game is unplayable by playing strictly RAW.

Make sure you tell your DM exactly what you're trying to do with this and what the consequences are of allowing it.  If he's nuts enough to allow it, more power to him I suppose.

[Waazraath]

I think this golden oldie sums it up pretty nice:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4136.msg56582#msg56582