Author Topic: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm  (Read 5064 times)

Offline Tonymitsu

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So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« on: March 10, 2014, 12:03:04 AM »
This is yet another character for the game discussed here.
The short version of the story is I finally caved and re-worked the character in that thread to Bard4/Warblade 16||Duskblade 20 and presented that to the DM.  His response was if I wanted to do that I had to put bard on the duskblade side of the build.  Why?  Because, "can't have caster classes on opposite sides at the same time."  Apparently that would be overpowered or something.
...Yeah.... So putting bard over there meant duskblade 16, which is probably sub-optimal for what I want to do.  It also meant losing BAB and HP's.  It also probably meant losing Song of the White Raven.  It also meant redoing maneuver selection.  Basically, it meant being pretty much back at square one.
So I said, "@$%! it", and told him I'll make a Factotum 4/Wizard 4 instead, and he said fine.  Irritated at having to redo a character for his game three times now, I mentioned going in to Incantatrix, and he said that was also fine.  I don't normally like to do this but I feel this is one of those special circumstances that call for an object demonstration on what precisely "power" means.

Rules are 32 point buy, everything but Dragon Mag, starting at level 4, no traits or flaws.
the rest of the party is a Cleric||Crusader, a Dread Necro||Unknown, and an Ur-Priest


So here's this:

Fash Durgan
Neutral Evil whisper gnome
32 PB: STR 8, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 18, WIS 14, CHA 8 (all bonuses to Int)

*Note:  Otyugh Hole is not an option

1.    Factotum 1||Wizard 1                        Specialist: Conjuror, Abrupt Jaunt variant, Iron Will
2.    Factotum 2||Wizard 2
3.    Factotum 3||Wizard 3                        Item Familiar
4.    Factotum 4||Wizard 4
5.    Factotum 5||Wizard 5                        Extend Spell
6.    Factotum 6||Incantatrix 1                   Persistent Spell, Spell Focus (illusion)
7.    Factotum 7||Incantatrix 2
8.    Factotum 8||Incantatrix 3
9.    Factotum 9||Shadowcraft Mage 1        Heighten Spell
10.  Factotum 10||Shadowcraft Mage 2
11.  Factotum 11||Shadowcraft Mage 3
12.  Factotum 12||Shadowcraft Mage 4      Metamagic School Focus (Illusion)
13.  Factotum 13||Shadowcraft Mage 5
14.  Factotum 14||Incantatrix 4                 Twin Spell
15.  Factotum 15||Incantatrix 5                 Spell Mastery (Orb of Fire, Silent Image, Celerity, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Teleport)
16.  Factotum 16||Incantatrix 6
17.  Factotum 17||Incantatrix 7                 Quicken Spell
18.  Factotum 18||Incantatrix 8                 Uncanny Forethought
19.  Factotum 19||Incantatrix 9
20.  Factotum 20||Incantatrix 10               Sculpt Spell

Skills ranks:
Appraise 1, Balance 5, Bluff 5, Concentration 23, Decipher Script 1, Diplomacy 23, Disable Device 12, Disguise 1, Forgery 1, Gather Information 1, Hide 4, Knowledge (arcane) 19, Knowledge (architecture) 5, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 12, Knowledge (local) 12, Knowledge (nature) 13, Knowledge (religion) 17, Knowledge (the planes) 16, Open Lock 1, Search 1, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 23, Spot 23, Survival 5

Tricks:
Collector of Stories

Given the enormous amount of full casters the choice option appears to be persisting their buffs with Cooperative Metamagic, to that end the item familiar will be a custom Tunic of Spell Reinforcing (+5 comp. to Spellcraft) worn under my normal clothes and all bonuses from it will go into Spellcraft.  Assuming I did it right (put every skill point into the item), and I did the math correctly that's a +66(derp) +23 to spellcraft at level 20, which will allow me to persist 19th level spells when taking 10.  Beyond that I'll likely focus on battlefield control or summon monsters and leave the killing to the others.  Orb of Fire is in case I need to blast for some reason, though Shadow Evocations can also function for that purpose.  The main purpose of Factotum is intelligence to things and extra spells with Cunning Surge.

Any suggestions are welcome, especially for targets for spell mastery, more optimal class and feat progression, and how else to best utilize an item familiar for my purposes (I've never used one before).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 02:08:56 AM by Tonymitsu »
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 12:19:44 AM »
If you're going for a blasty spell to use, might I recommend Orb of Acid instead?  Fire is the most resisted of the elemental damage types, while acid is pretty much the least unless you go into sonic (which is nullified by Silence as per the rules on sound-based attacks).

Alternately, you might consider the Fiery Burst reserve feat to get some 'splodey going without having to actually spend spells.

Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2014, 12:31:00 AM »
If you're going for a blasty spell to use, might I recommend Orb of Acid instead?  Fire is the most resisted of the elemental damage types, while acid is pretty much the least unless you go into sonic (which is nullified by Silence as per the rules on sound-based attacks).

Alternately, you might consider the Fiery Burst reserve feat to get some 'splodey going without having to actually spend spells.

True, but Orb of Acid sickens on a failed save while Orb of Fire dazes. I like that extra potential threat of making them lose a turn instead of just imposing penalties.
I also don't think I'm desperate enough to blast to go for Firey Burst either.  :p


Any suggestions for gear would also be very helpful.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 12:33:07 AM by Tonymitsu »
"The only thing in the entire universe more dangerous than knowledge is ignorance."
--Lord Volkarion Knightcon

Offline PixelHead777

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2014, 01:02:55 AM »
True, but Orb of Acid sickens on a failed save while Orb of Fire dazes. I like that extra potential threat of making them lose a turn instead of just imposing penalties.
I also don't think I'm desperate enough to blast to go for Firey Burst either.  :p


Any suggestions for gear would also be very helpful.

If you have an extra feat to blow (which I'm assuming you don't but I mean I don't know) I'd assume there's a feat that lets you change element of damage for a spell. See if you can't find one of those.

Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2014, 01:09:56 AM »
If you have an extra feat to blow (which I'm assuming you don't but I mean I don't know) I'd assume there's a feat that lets you change element of damage for a spell. See if you can't find one of those.

There is, but I don't, so it ain't.

Again; not looking to blast as a primary role here.
"The only thing in the entire universe more dangerous than knowledge is ignorance."
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2014, 08:04:32 AM »
Sculpt at 20 seems unimpressive especially when you can get it on a rod.  Maybe Residual Metamagic at that point?

Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2014, 11:23:02 AM »
Sculpt at 20 seems unimpressive especially when you can get it on a rod.  Maybe Residual Metamagic at that point?
I agree with that too, but the level 20 is an Incantatrix 10 bonus feat.  It has to be a metamagic feat and Residual Magic doesn't qualify.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2014, 01:02:38 PM »
Invisible Spell
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Offline Tonymitsu

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2014, 01:50:52 PM »
"The only thing in the entire universe more dangerous than knowledge is ignorance."
--Lord Volkarion Knightcon

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2014, 07:53:58 PM »
Wizard 20 // Commoner 20 if you want to rub it in how healer 16 // lurk 16 isn't exactly the ultimate power even though it casts on both sides. Just an example.

Factotums are casters too..

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2014, 10:55:53 PM »
Wizard 20 // Commoner 20 if you want to rub it in how healer 16 // lurk 16 isn't exactly the ultimate power even though it casts on both sides. Just an example.

Factotums are casters too..
I think this is a great suggestion. I might use aristocrat instead, though. Or expert. Not necessary, but more interesting than commoner. At least you'll get some skills/proficiencies out of it, and it should still prove the point. :p
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Offline A_bad_DM

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2014, 02:55:47 PM »
Invisible Spell

Instead of Sculpt?

Well, Invisible Spell has an adjustment cost of 0 so with Incantatrix, you get to have -1 on your total spell level adjustment, and you can probably make invisible summons(because Invisible Spell is so badly written.)

Note that you won't be casting level 9 spells as level 8, but a 2 level adjustment metamagic would end up being free(Unless I'm mistaken, it has been a while since I've last looked at incantatrix.)

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 12:22:25 AM »
Invisible Spell

Instead of Sculpt?

Well, Invisible Spell has an adjustment cost of 0 so with Incantatrix, you get to have -1 on your total spell level adjustment, and you can probably make invisible summons(because Invisible Spell is so badly written.)

Note that you won't be casting level 9 spells as level 8, but a 2 level adjustment metamagic would end up being free(Unless I'm mistaken, it has been a while since I've last looked at incantatrix.)

Arcane Thesis works with it.

Offline Endarire

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 02:54:22 AM »
Does Orb of Fire require damaging its target to force a save?

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: So now it's come to this... gestalt factotum/inc/scm
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 10:15:25 AM »
Does Orb of Fire require damaging its target to force a save?

No, just being "struck" by it.