How does your group handle superhuman intellect?

[Nytemare3701]

When it comes to wizards, there is generally a huge gap between the character's INT score and the player's. What do you do to bridge the gap?

Our group currently uses the DM as the wizard's extra brainpower. If the players have the necessary information to solve a problem, but can't piece it together, the player with high INT can get a nudge from the DM. (currently not really necessary, since the guy with the INT is currently the co-dm and is allowed to metagame slightly instead)

I've seen other DMs rule that the excess mental capacity is reserved for the increased spells, making a wizard only as smart as his skill points.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

My kitty avatar.

That also answers your next 6 questions.

 


**


But yeah, that's been a problem of the game from the start.

Let's say a Human town watch gang are Warrior 1s with 10 Int.
There's no way they could function like a modern police force.
Int 12 Sarge might not quick grab a Commoner to blame for a cow getting out.
Int 14 Cohort of boss, knows what the boss wants without having to confab over and over.
Int 16 Cap'n is totally full of himself and never makes a mistake (you know the type).
Int 18 bad guy in Waterworld acts as a partial Lawyer to himself, runs the show.  Evil.  No mo' vagra = cranky all the time.
Int 20 if Einstein had no books he'd be Fencing.  I dip my "sword" in any of 5 different poisons.  Knows how to do snake oil marketing.

Int 22 is Marylin Vos Savant writing a puzzle and advice column, for bored housewifes and concubines of the Town Watch Gang.  Spread conspiracy theories about Illithids taking over the Oracle Of Thor/Delphi.

Int 24 is kicking himself for ticking off the local Wizard 3 so much he wouldn't train him, and put in a bad word with all his higher ups.  Did you hear the one about the Wizard the Cow and the "Brownie"?  Curses, foiled by my Wis 8 again.  Spends his days noticing the exact angle a Dog bites a Cat.

[kitep]

It doesn't come up much in our group, as we vastly prefer to play really dumb characters over really smart characters.  But when we do run into something our group can't solve, everyone makes an INT roll and the highest gets the answer.  Obviously, this will usually be the guy who ALWAYS rolls high, but sometimes it's "smart guy"    Anyway, regardless of what the highest INT is, someone will get the answer.

If the DM doesn't mind the extra work, he could make a chart like modules do for gather information, or like the MIC does for relic items.  Int roll:
10 - knows basic stuff
15 - knows more stuff
20 - even more stuff
25 - no way he knows that!
30 - Jeopardy knowledge at work
I imagine if you do it often enough, the DM can wing it.

The real problem, is that the supersmart will think of stuff long before a problem arises.  He'll have considered contingency plans, know what to bring, think of solutions that even the DM hasn't thought of, etc.

[Nytemare3701]

The real problem, is that the supersmart will think of stuff long before a problem arises.  He'll have considered contingency plans, know what to bring, think of solutions that even the DM hasn't thought of, etc.

Also known as the Co-DM playing a wizard and everyone assumes he's divining in his off-time.

[Summerstorm]

In my group every player gets one "Tip" per Int bonus of his character, per evening.

So somebody with 14 can get two per evening, my Psion can get 7 at the moment (or as i say: ALL of them)

A tip might be another player with a suggestion, point of view etc. (No rules or knowledge - that's what skills are for) or the GM, if he is nice and might want to explain something for you in detail.

Something along the line ("You could imagine the evil succubus might provide some assistance with this situation." or "You can remember your character was told that the color red would be important by the oracle ten sessions back")
Players comment often: "You know my character would do it that way and can take care of this etc." - or "We fought something like that before, last time blabla"

So effective high-int characters sometimes hear strange voices in their heads *g*

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... So effective high-int characters sometimes hear strange voices in their heads *g*

My kitty avatar says you don't say.

[TuggyNE]

So effective high-int characters sometimes hear strange voices in their heads *g*

I can buy that. 

[Navaris]

This is actually not a topic that I've ever broached with my players. We usually just have it based on knowledge skills instead of the default intelligence. We do occasionally have situations where no player has the appropriate knowledge skill, and then we do an 'intelligence check' of sorts where I tend to kind of give them a hint.

This has gotten me thinking though, I really like some of the ideas that were brought up here and I may have to look into it. I think our current smartest character is our alchemist at a 19, so it isn't something that will come up often, but very good brain food for me, if not for my high int players.

[Slippery_Chicken]

PF gives the DC to identify a creature's abilities and weaknesses at 10+CR (or 5+CR for common creatures, and 15+CR for rare/unique creatures). If you know what you're doing, you can pretty much smash most encounters with that information.


Also, high enough knowledge skills means you probably know roughly as much about the setting as the GM does. However, the usefulness of this information varies with the GM's knowledge of his own setting.

[Mizter0oz]

I have to throw this out there, Intelligence doesn't matter; what matters is how it is used and the game gives that in skill bonuses. If we pulled out a nuclear physicist and asked them to do a puzzle (something that they never do) then they would not be good at it.

If you want to take it to a real world perspective (always hard with a game system) smart people in the world use their skills for things like puzzles because that is what they like to do. But a wizard is the equivalent of a nuclear physicist and if they don’t have the skills then all that extra intelligence gives them no extra advantage.

A rogue who spends his time studying additional skills rather than learning magic is more likely to know the puzzles. Further intelligence does not always translate to useful everyday skills. Often different skills are focused on for carriers or hobbies.

Here is something to think about; intelligence has almost no impact on your carrier; rather your upbringing and resources, family status etc effects you more so. Therefore you are likely to find someone with a high intelligence working at McDonald as much as you would a nurse. Does that mean that either is more capable at Sudoku no because that is a unrelated skill.

[nijineko]

what a high intelligence truly means is that the individual can grasp concepts of a higher order of complexity than normal. has very little to do with memory, cunning, wisdom, book knowledge... but rather it is a capacity for greater understanding. this is very hard to represent in a game.

great suggestions so far. =D

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I think the game assumes that Intelligence is <<<< Magic.


Smart Dude says:  Why did that Giant Mushroom act like that Talking Box creature?
Sellout Priest Of Thor:  I cast detect alignment ... oh they're both Lawful Neutral.  Thanks Thor.

[oslecamo]

Here is something to think about; intelligence has almost no impact on your carrier; rather your upbringing and resources, family status etc effects you more so. Therefore you are likely to find someone with a high intelligence working at McDonald as much as you would a nurse. Does that mean that either is more capable at Sudoku no because that is a unrelated skill.

Eerr, not exactly. Altough it's somewhat true that a lazy intellegent person whitout connections may find themselves working at McDonalds, a dumb person will simply never reach the position of nuclear physicist.

That's why the position of nuclear physicist pays so much better than Mc Donalds. Almost anybody can learn how to work at Mc Donalds. Only a small percentage of the population is able to learn advanced nuclear physics, and thus they get to demand higher salaries (once they've proven after years of work that they actually know advanced nuclear physics of course, plenty of people out there claiming to be smarter than others, talk is cheap).

Being smart will open up certain career options for you. If you're willing to walk those paths, that's another story.

what a high intelligence truly means is that the individual can grasp concepts of a higher order of complexity than normal. has very little to do with memory, cunning, wisdom, book knowledge... but rather it is a capacity for greater understanding. this is very hard to represent in a game.

It has a lot to do with memory and gathering knowledge, whetever from books or another sources. You simply cannot grasp concepts of higher order of complexity if you can't even hold the basic concepts in your head. And before that, you need to gather concepts from some place to start with. You cannot understand something if you don't even know what the topic is.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yeah, so an Int 36 Demon-lord has had 5000+ years to come up with the McDonald's franchise system ... but can't. 

Although it's only because he hasn't used Mind Rape on an Illithid, who of course know about it ; which is why they traveled back in time anyway to make sure it does not happen.  This is their deepest darkest secret, and none of the deities have discovered it, even with all their power.  Consider this, they have metaphoric tentacles stretching all the way to the Beavis & Butthead series, solely to mind rot the youth who could have understood all this.  So they play d&d with proto-jackass fart jokes on their mind; while the illithids gimble and gyre.

This makes purr-fect sense, you know.

[Nytemare3701]

...Can I have some of what you are smoking?

[nijineko]

sorry, he keeps hogging my supply and buying me out.


i allow logic checks with and without rolls for high INT players, but i ad hoc it on the fly. so i don't have any hard-fast guidelines, just the spur of the moment, makes sense for now, get on with the game, sort of rulings. ^^

[oslecamo]

Yeah, so an Int 36 Demon-lord has had 5000+ years to come up with the McDonald's franchise system ... but can't. 

The Abyss has infinite layers. It's thus perfectly possible that in one of them there's a Mc Donalds Network staffed by dretches, Balors on the kitchen using their flaming vorpal swords to prepare the hamburguers. They make sure to deliver only 100% humanoid meat straight from the material plane, in the form of Mc.Elf, Mc.Dwarf, Mc.Human, etc. Or you can try out the new soul nuggets, along with some hellfire sauce.

[Raineh Daze]

Yeah, so an Int 36 Demon-lord has had 5000+ years to come up with the McDonald's franchise system ... but can't. 

The Abyss has infinite layers. It's thus perfectly possible that in one of them there's a Mc Donalds Network staffed by dretches, Balors on the kitchen using their flaming vorpal swords to prepare the hamburguers. They make sure to deliver only 100% humanoid meat straight from the material plane, in the form of Mc.Elf, Mc.Dwarf, Mc.Human, etc. Or you can try out the new soul nuggets, along with some hellfire sauce.

Why would a Balor be cooking?

[nijineko]

Yeah, so an Int 36 Demon-lord has had 5000+ years to come up with the McDonald's franchise system ... but can't. 

The Abyss has infinite layers. It's thus perfectly possible that in one of them there's a Mc Donalds Network staffed by dretches, Balors on the kitchen using their flaming vorpal swords to prepare the hamburguers. They make sure to deliver only 100% humanoid meat straight from the material plane, in the form of Mc.Elf, Mc.Dwarf, Mc.Human, etc. Or you can try out the new soul nuggets, along with some hellfire sauce.

Why would a Balor be cooking?

doesn't trust anyone else with the special sauce?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yeah, so an Int 36 Demon-lord has had 5000+ years to come up with the McDonald's franchise system ... but can't. 

The Abyss has infinite layers. It's thus perfectly possible that in one of them there's a Mc Donalds Network staffed by dretches, Balors on the kitchen using their flaming vorpal swords to prepare the hamburguers. They make sure to deliver only 100% humanoid meat straight from the material plane, in the form of Mc.Elf, Mc.Dwarf, Mc.Human, etc. Or you can try out the new soul nuggets, along with some hellfire sauce.

Why would a Balor be cooking?

doesn't trust anyone else with the special sauce?

 
Balors don't consider torture to be cooking.  Hold the "meat" with it's Whip, while ~toasting it with it's Sword.  I got to turn this, so it doesn't get grisselly.  Halfling grissel is hard even for a Marillith to get out.  Supposedly the Abyssal Viper Trees are big fans of the McWere-Boar Rib.  But you know, in spite of that intellect they have a really hard time getting the Salads just right.