Optimizing the Worst (Healer & Warmage)

[Stratovarius]

This is a repost of an old build from BG. If I remember correctly, there was an argument once about taking skills before class levels, thus allowing entrance into a class a level earlier. That's the trick being used here, to try and make this build not suck.

This is an idea for which I have to thank (or blame), Prime32, for his comment here. The immediate thought that sprang to mind would be just how well can you optimize a Healer/Warmage/Mystic Theurge build, using 32 point buy.

Took me a good bit longer than I wanted to to get back to this character build. It's mostly based off of Shadeseraph's idea, although there are still a few points where I'm having troubles. I may end up needing to take a fairly blah feat in order to make it work.

The Worst

(click to show/hide)

The Worst

Race: Bamboo Spirit Folk
Alignment: NG
Stats: Str 8/Dex 10/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 16/Cha 16 (required: Con 13, Wis 13)

Code: [Select]

Level  Classes              Skills Needed   Skills                          Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1      Healer 1                             4 (Sur 4, Arc 4, Rel 4, Nat 4)  Educated (ECS), Earth Sense (Murky Eyed), Earth Spell (Noncombatant)
2      Warmage 1                            1 (Arc, Rel)
3      Mystic Theurge 1     Arc 6, Rel 6    1 (Arc, Rel)                    Heighten Spell
4      Mystic Theurge 2                     2 (Nat)
5      Mystic Theurge 3                     2 (Nat)
6      Sand Shaper 1        Sur 4, Nat 4    4 (Nat)                         Touchstone (City of the Dead) [Sandstorm]
7      Mystic Theurge 4                     2 (Nat 8)
8      Mystic Theurge 5                     2 (Arc)
9      Mystic Theurge 6                     2 (Arc 8)                       Versatile Spellcaster        
10     Mystic Theurge 7                     3
11     Arcane Hierophant 1  Arc 8, Nat 8    3
12     Arcane Hierophant 2    3                            Extraordinary Spell Aim
13     Arcane Hierophant 3                  3          
14     Arcane Hierophant 4                  3
15     Arcane Hierophant 5    3                            Empower Spell
16     Arcane Hierophant 6                  3          
17     Arcane Hierophant 7                  3
18     Arcane Hierophant 8    3                            Practised Caster (Warmage)
19     Arcane Hierophant 9                  3          
20     Arcane Hierophant 10                 3
Requirements:

• Mystic Theurge - Arcana 6, Religion 6
• Arcane Heirophant - Arcana 8, Nature 8, BAB 4, non-lawful
• Sand Shaper - Nature 4, Survival 4, any neutral, Touchstone (City of the Dead)

Class Ideas:
I can fit in a single class that boosts arcane casting, if the first level is really worth it. I'm not inclined to do so at the moment, however.

Feat Ideas:
I've been looking at using the Arcane Thesis (Scorching Ray) + assorted metamagic feats as probably the primary option, maxing out the Warmage's trick of lots of damage, but the poor Dex makes me not as fond of that as I might be. Still, something like Arcane Thesis (Enervation) + Split Ray, Twin Spell, Empower Spell, is probably my best bet.

An idea that is certainly piquing my interest is Arcane Thesis combined with Fell Animate, in order to have a Neutral Good healer with a small army of zombies. And yes, this stretches the bounds of anything remotely sane.

I recall there are feats/class abilities that let lower level spells be combined into higher level ones, but I don't believe there are ones that allow powering of arcane spells with divine slots, and so on. If there are, it would help greatly.

Suggestions are welcome.

Pro:

• Warmage Casting - Level 18 spontaneous casting/9th spells.
• Healer Casting - Level 18 casting/9th spells.
• Sanctified Spells - Useable by the Healer. Gives much needed divine versatility.
• Gets into the dual progression class very quickly, losing only one caster level.
• Sand Shaper spells, giving much needed power boost to the arcane side. Allows buffing using the low level slots, and adds increased options for battlefield control, including via summons.
• Volume of spells: More spells than actions in battle.
• Versatile Spellcaster: Allows the use of more higher level spells, should the need arise.
• Extraordinary Spell Aim: Better utilization of battlefield control spells.
• Cloudy Conjuration: Turns all those conjuration spells into debuffers, as well.
• Practised Caster (Warmage): Making up for the lack of caster level.

Con:

• Warmage Casting - It's a Warmage.
• Healer Casting - It's a Healer.
• Mystic Theurge - It's a Mystic Theurge.
• Caster Level/DCs - These fall behind those of a single class caster, as expected.
• Skills - Limited skill points, mostly spread out to cover requirements for the first 10 levels.
• Stats - As with almost all dual-class casters, the stat spread suffers from severe MAD. Will need magic items to reach 19 in both casting stats.
• Feats - 5 feats are taken with making the trick work at all, limiting feat choice severely.
• AC/Attack - The lack of Dex from MAD makes the defenses and offense suffer.

Touchstone is gained via having a Touchstone Key (item of 250gp).

I haven't gotten into items yet, because I'd rather the build stand mostly on its own.

The Worst, Summoner Style

(click to show/hide)

The Worst, Summoner Style

Race: Bamboo Spirit Folk
Alignment: NG
Stats: Str 8/Dex 10/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 16/Cha 16 (required: Con 13, Wis 13)

Code: [Select]

Level  Classes              Skills Needed   Skills                          Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1      Healer 1                             4 (Sur 4, Arc 4, Rel 4, Nat 4)  Educated (ECS), Earth Sense (Murky Eyed), Earth Spell (Noncombatant)
2      Warmage 1                            1 (Arc, Rel)
3      Warmage 2            Arc 6, Rel 6    1 (Arc, Rel)                    Heighten Spell
4      Mystic Theurge 1                     2 (Nat)
5      Mystic Theurge 2                     2 (Nat)
6      Sand Shaper 1        Sur 4, Nat 4    4 (Nat)                         Touchstone (City of the Dead) [Sandstorm]
7      Mystic Theurge 3                     2 (Nat 8)
8      Mystic Theurge 4                     2 (Arc)
9      Mystic Theurge 5                     2 (Arc 8)                       Spell Focus: Conjuration        
10     Mystic Theurge 6                     3
11     Arcane Hierophant 1  Arc 8, Nat 8    3
12     Arcane Hierophant 2    3                            Augment Summoning
13     Arcane Hierophant 3                  3          
14     Arcane Hierophant 4                  3
15     Arcane Hierophant 5    3                            Summon Elemental
16     Arcane Hierophant 6                  3          
17     Arcane Hierophant 7                  3
18     Arcane Hierophant 8    3                            Cloudy Conjuration
19     Arcane Hierophant 9                  3          
20     Arcane Hierophant 10                 3
Requirements:

• Mystic Theurge - Arcana 6, Religion 6
• Arcane Heirophant - Arcana 8, Nature 8, BAB 4, non-lawful
• Sand Shaper - Nature 4, Survival 4, any neutral, Touchstone (City of the Dead)

Class Ideas:
I can replace the second Warmage level with any class that requires knowledge skills (I can squeeze in one other skill, provided it's on a class list), and the ability to cast 2nd level or lower spells, but no feats. Arcane or divine does not really matter.

Feat Ideas:
I've been looking at using the Arcane Thesis (Scorching Ray) + assorted metamagic feats as probably the primary option, maxing out the Warmage's trick of lots of damage, but the poor Dex makes me not as fond of that as I might be. Still, something like Arcane Thesis (Enervation) + Split Ray, Twin Spell, Empower Spell, is probably my best bet.

An idea that is certainly piquing my interest is Arcane Thesis combined with Fell Animate, in order to have a Neutral Good healer with a small army of zombies. And yes, this stretches the bounds of anything remotely sane.

I recall there are feats/class abilities that let lower level spells be combined into higher level ones, but I don't believe there are ones that allow powering of arcane spells with divine slots, and so on. If there are, it would help greatly.

Suggestions are welcome.

Pro:

• Warmage Casting - Level 18 spontaneous casting/9th spells, including all Sand Shaper spells.
• Healer Casting - Level 17 casting/9th spells.
• Sanctified Spells - Useable by the Healer
• Focuses around the use of Summon Desert Ally. Suboptimal, I know, but this exercise is more for fun than anything else.
• Uses Cloudy Conjuration and Spell Focus: Conjuration for support and/or damage spells.

Con:

• Warmage Casting - It's a Warmage.
• Healer Casting - It's a Healer.
• Mystic Theurge - It's a Mystic Theurge.
• Skills - Limited skill points, mostly spread out to cover requirements for the first 10 levels.
• Stats - As with almost all dual-class casters, the stat spread suffers from severe MAD.
• Feats - 5 feats are taken with making the trick work at all, limiting feat choice severely.
• AC/Attack - The lack of Dex from MAD makes the defenses and offense suffer.

Touchstone is gained via having a Touchstone Key (item of 250gp).

I haven't gotten into items yet, because I'd rather the build stand mostly on its own.

And a big thanks to all who have helped so far.

[SorO_Lost]

Need to expand your Spell List?
Healer 10 / Contemplative 1 / Sovereign Speaker 5 / Healer 4 + Domain Staff = 7 Domains worth added.
Warmage 6 / Rainbow Servant 10 / Prestige Bard 1 / Silver Pyromancer 1 / Warmage 2 = All Warmage, Cleric, Bard, and Paladin Spells Known.

Arcanes also have Runestaffs as well.

[Stratovarius]

Ah, but those are two separate builds. The goals is to wedge the Healer and the Warmage together into a single monstrosity, and yet somehow still be Tier 3ish.

Right now it's mostly by using Sanctified Spells, Sand Shaper, and then just stacking spell levels and one decent feat trick.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Psion-Kineticist  / Sangehirn ...
and does almost the same thing.

[Stratovarius]

Yes, but using Tier 1/2 classes, which sort of negates the point of this

[SorO_Lost]

Healer and Warmage are not Tier 1/2.
In fact, the Warmage is a better Class than the Beguiler.

And if this thread isn't open to build suggestions/discussions then it's already over.

[Stratovarius]

I wasn't saying the Healer or the Warmage was a Tier 1 or 2 class. I was saying the Psion/Sangehirn combination was, and the Psion is a class that has been well optimized over the years.

Also, I tend to follow JaronK's opinion that the Beguiler is a full tier ahead of the Warmage.

The goal was to see if it was possible to take the two worst casting classes in the game, combine them, and through heavy CO, drag them up to a rough Tier 3 approximation, or even Tier 2. Individually, yes, it's possible. There's a handbook for the Healer, and another for the Warmage. That was the reason for the combination of the two into a single build.

[SorO_Lost]

JoKer was a moron and often incorrect on everything he ever said. His Tier list is riddled with flaws, contradictory measurements and his biaism for his favorite Classes.

No, the Warmage is better than the Beguiler. List wise, the Beguiler on Illusions (self buffs, save-or-sucks) and he gets a couple Divination Spells, but fundamentally everything he offers is ignored by True Sight or high Will Saves and nearly every single choice requires someone else to follow up. For instance, his only damage Spell deals 1d6/2CLs (max 5d6) Nonlethal and Will Negates and the only Save-or-Die he obtains is Power Word Kill at the 17th level. So his actions boil down to Scry (sorry, he doesn't actually get scry either) for plot details, an area Save-or-Suck for everyone else to shine, or buff up some Miss Chances ignored by every type of vision except the three found in the PHB. Expanded Knowledge gives him the Shadow Evocation/Conjuration Spells if he wants to run entire levels behind every other Class or the much more valuable Simulacrum/Ice Assassin for action breaking.

A Warmage on the hand sells it's self as a "blaster" and when you've got a good post telling you Wizards should be played for CC effects someone like JK wipes his hands and moves on. A real person however would at least take the moment and consult the Spell List. In additional the universally useful damage line of Spells the Warmage packs a line of area based Save-less CC spells (sleet storm, black tentacles, acid fog, waves of exhaustion, etc), Beguiler comparable Save-or-Sucks (shatter, gust of wind, cloudkill, earthquake, all the orb spells), real Save-or-Dies (phantasmal killer, cloudkill, circle of death, finger of death, implosion), and Magic-Blocking defenses like Prismatic Wall/Sphere. Through Extended Knowledge the Warmage can learn things like Wings of Cover, Blasphemy/Holy Word, Contingency, Slashing Dispel (normally worth nothing, but in this case it's the only way either of them obtain access to Dispel without Feats/Items/PrCs), even increased methods of movement(firestride exaltation is a smaller ranged DDoor+damage, lord of the sky or wingblast for flight, even a gaseous form that can blind people out of DM). In effect, the Warmage's default answer is nuke them, but he has the same choice to provide area debuffs, or area kills in case his party cannot immediately follow up, as well as real auto-win buttons and utility support like flight and magical deflection. His direct damage is also better set up for Fell Animate, combined with his other Necromancy Spells and Expanded options (desecrate is evocation) he even makes a better Necromancer as well to make up for the lack of Shadow Conjuration'ing up creatures twelve levels below him as the Beguiler can.

Class Feature Wise, well they both suck. But you know JK. Factotums freaking rule, Rogues are solid T3s, Beguiler pwns, common denominator is Trapfinding in case you're not understanding the bias I'm sarcastically pointing out here. So no never mind to the Warmage's higher AC, freebie Suddens, and the iconic Charisma Synergy right? See, that last one is a big one. Out of the three Mental Scores, Charisma is the easiest to increase and the most wildly applicable. This means even if you handed the Warmage the Beguiler's Spell List, a mid-level Warmage does the Beguiler's entire role better than the Beguiler does thanks to nearly impossible to fail Save DCs that you just can't squeeze out of Intelligence without POA. This also means those real Save-or-Dies the Warmage has are incredibility potent, ending entire Encounters before another character or opponent(s) get to act.

Fundamentally it boils down to the Beguiler can only help during Encounters. A Warmage can provide help or solo the Encounter.

[Sinfire Titan]

No, the Warmage is better than the Beguiler. List wise, the Beguiler on Illusions (self buffs, save-or-sucks) and he gets a couple Divination Spells, but fundamentally everything he offers is ignored by True Sight or high Will Saves and nearly every single choice requires someone else to follow up. For instance, his only damage Spell deals 1d6/2CLs (max 5d6) Nonlethal and Will Negates and the only Save-or-Die he obtains is Power Word Kill at the 17th level

Legion of Sentinels apparently doesn't exist in your PH2...

@OP: Since the build is arcane, you may be able to finagle Dragon Pacts (DrM), but I forget if those are Sorcerer-exclusive or not.

[SorO_Lost]

Legion of Sentinels apparently doesn't exist in your PH2...

I'm sorry, do we assume you have a Bard nearby to provide Inspiration?

Reread the Spell. The Spell summons Creatures, not deals damage, so it cannot be used with Fell Animate or Lord of Uttercold. Also it's actuality a pretty piss poor Spell to begin with. It's a 10ft emanation or 4x4 missing corners effect that makes AoOs at a less than NPC Warrior level. CL for BAB, no other mods, 1d8+(1~5) with no other mods. I mean, at the 6th level when you get it it has a 40% chance of dealing an average 6.5 damage per Ghost that can respond to the AoO (and they can only make on such AoO, so the flanking is worthless). A Medium Creature that has to run up adjacent, in 3D space, from the long edge of the Spell, faces 11 attacks (71.5 avg) which probably "sounds" amazing to you. But Damage Reduction 5/magic almost completely nullifies this, as well as anyone large, higher than normal AC, attempt to make a DC 15 Tumble Check, or just plain uses a Ranged Attack so *you* have to move to *them* because it's entirely worthless if your opponent doesn't cast a Spell or run towards you (ie it's worse than a save-or-suck). The Warmage's alternative, Ring of Blades, auto attacks and auto hits dealing 1d6+6+IntMod untyped damage (bypasses DR) and lasts ten times longer. Less damage under the perfect ideal scenario, but you can count on it actually doing something. And if we wanted to go into "ideal" scenarios simply allowing the Warmage to choose to use Fire Shield instead provides the same damage when successfully attacked, but it's Persistable, Metamagicable, Mystic Fireable, and so on allowing it to become a one hit-kill auto-Roblier's Gambit, without the AC loss, and provides a 50% Elemental Damage Reduction. Because most of the Warmage's "damage" Spells provide secondary buff/debuff/utility effects and it so happens to be half-damage from the Red Dragon's Breath Weapon in this case.

So I'll repeat my self. Are you forgetting that Spell is worthless without a Bard around making it awesome? Because +12 Inspire Courage/Dragonfire makes everything Awesome.

Edit - Also tomorrow for kicks and giggles I'm going to sit down with the Healer and go over his Spell List. I wonder if he has any gems in it.

[Stratovarius]

His spell list, is, mostly, crap. Doesn't have a single offensive spell (except against undead), until he gets to 17 and for some reason is handed Gate. Now, that's not counting spells that SpC recommends adding, but those are mostly variants of healing spells as well, so there's not much more to see on that front.

And it sounds like I should change the challenge over to a Beguiler/Healer dual class build. Which would be a very weird combination.

[Mithril Leaf]

Need to expand your Spell List?
Healer 10 / Contemplative 1 / Sovereign Speaker 5 / Healer 4 + Domain Staff = 7 Domains worth added.
Warmage 6 / Rainbow Servant 10 / Prestige Bard 1 / Silver Pyromancer 1 / Warmage 2 = All Warmage, Cleric, Bard, and Paladin Spells Known.

Arcanes also have Runestaffs as well.

Expect for the fact that the Silver Pyromancer still can't add paladin spells to the spell list of any fixed full list casters, and is in fact explicitly called out to not work like that when combined with Warmage. The rest is solid though. It's worth mentioning that you could maybe add druid spells to the list if you subscribe to the belief that a DWK can take Archetypes, which may or may not be the case depending on how you interpret it. I won't take either side.

[SorO_Lost]

Now, that's not counting spells that SpC recommends adding, but those are mostly variants of healing spells as well, so there's not much more to see on that front.

Actually it's wider than you think.

Healer (Miniatures Handbook): Add spells concerned with healing, removing affliction, providing protections, and providing for needs. In particular, add higher-level versions of spells the healer can already cast, such as mass restoration.

Defining "protections" is a little hard. Open ended, anything that grants a bonus to AC/Saves/Resistances/Miss Chances/Immunities and so on would be included. A short list would be every Abjuration Spell in the SpC as well as most Transmutation Spells.

Trying to form an in context example is a little more difficult and of course a great deal more limiting. The Healer's natural Spell List includes Protection from Evil, Holy Aura, Freedom of Movement, Death Ward and Heroes Feast which are all Spells that provide total immunity to a certain effect. It also contains Sanctuary but lacks Resist Energy (and stone skin which is semi-expected). In context comes across as any Spell that provides Immunity to at least a single effect is included, even if the Spell would also grant bonuses to Attack/AC/Saves. But effects that simply decrease damage (DR/Resist) or purely provide AC Bonuses are excluded. So each Spell in the SpC needs to be gone through. Absorption, Energy Immunity, Ironguard, Life's Grace, Loyal Vassal (mass immunity to mind-affecting & +3 sacred to saves, nice!), Nightshield, Ray Deflection, Planar Tolerance, Refusal, Safe Clearing, and Spell Immunity all sprung to mind on the first pass.

Then "providing for needs" also can be taken open ended (I think I need someone to cast fireball into that doorway wink) but presumable means anything that attempts to restore homeostasis.

Also in the SpC there is this.

Warmage (Miniatures Handbook): Expanding the warmage spell list isn’t recommended. The warmage has a limited list of spells to balance its power and adding spells might tip that balance. If you’d like to add to the list anyway, try replacing access to spells rather than simply giving the warmage a wider range of spells to choose from. Of course, when a warmage gains the advanced learning class feature, the evocation spells in this book offer many options.

Which prompts the immediate question of, can I replace a few of those blasting Spells for Illusions? 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Well Sangehirn does a good job of Neutering whatever class it's stuck onto.
Ardent / Sang is a step further down.
PsyWar as caster / Sang is worse.
Divine Mind?  Yeah now we're talking bad bad, inarguably worse than Healer bad.
But yeah I was just ballparking it.

[Stratovarius]

I sort of regard CPsi as an "The Thing That Should Not Be", given the utter travesty of everything it adds. Probably the worst 3.5 book of all.

@SorO - It looks like the Healer makes a fairly decent buffer, once you add in SpC. And yes, I'm not sure a DM would go for "Battle Healer the Pyro". Although turning the Healer into a primary blaster would be a rather amusing thing to see.

Also, just eyed up the Sand Shaper more closely, and the spells it grants at first level don't say they go to arcane casters only... Only difficult requirement to meet is Arcane Caster Level 5, which I'm sure there are ways around.

[Endarire]

Magical Training + Practiced Spellcaster = arcane CL 5 @ 5HD

[zook1shoe]

The Mlar class from Polyhedron 159 is the worst arcane caster... by far

basically sorcerer spell progression, except no 1st level spell slot at 1st level

here's the ENTIRE spell list
0- mending, prestidigitation (change color of object or create a decoration only)
1- magic weapon
2- make whole
3- stone shape
4- minor creation
5- fabricate
6- major creation


this might be too crappy to bring to tier 3

[Stratovarius]

Mucked around with a solo healer build. Mostly just by adding a ton of spells to the Healer's list.

(click to show/hide)

The Versatile Healer

Race: Human
Alignment: NG
Stats: Str 8/Dex 10/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 16/Cha 16

Code: [Select]

Level  Classes              Skills Needed   Feats
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1      Healer 1                             Magical Training, Practised Spellcaster (Murky Eyed), Skill Focus (Religion) (Noncombatant), Worldly Focus (Human)
2      Healer 2                           
3      Healer 3                             Touchstone (City of the Dead)
4      Healer 4                     
5      Healer 5             Sur 4, Nat 4   
6      Sand Shaper 1                        Free Feat
7      Divine Oracle 1      Rel 8           
8      Sovereign Speaker 1                     
9      Sovereign Speaker 2                  Free Feat       
10     Sovereign Speaker 3                 
11     Sovereign Speaker 4     
12     Sovereign Speaker 5     Free Feat
13     Sovereign Speaker 6                 
14     Sovereign Speaker 7                 
15     Sovereign Speaker 8     Free Feat
16     Sovereign Speaker 9                 
17     Contemplative     1  Rel 13                 
18                                  Free Feat
19                     
20
Pro:

• Healer Casting - 3 levels lost (Sandshaper, 2 from Sov Speaker), 9th level spells, 17th caster level.
• Sanctified Spells - Useable by the Healer. Gives much needed divine versatility.
• Sand Shaper Spells - Allows buffing using the low level slots, and adds increased options for battlefield control, including via summons.
• Many, many, domains - Oracle, 11 from Sovereign Speaker, 1 from Contemplative

Touchstone is gained via having a Touchstone Key (item of 250gp).

[WarlockLord]

JoKer was a moron and often incorrect on everything he ever said. His Tier list is riddled with flaws, contradictory measurements and his biaism for his favorite Classes.

No, the Warmage is better than the Beguiler. List wise, the Beguiler on Illusions (self buffs, save-or-sucks) and he gets a couple Divination Spells, but fundamentally everything he offers is ignored by True Sight or high Will Saves and nearly every single choice requires someone else to follow up. For instance, his only damage Spell deals 1d6/2CLs (max 5d6) Nonlethal and Will Negates and the only Save-or-Die he obtains is Power Word Kill at the 17th level. So his actions boil down to Scry (sorry, he doesn't actually get scry either) for plot details, an area Save-or-Suck for everyone else to shine, or buff up some Miss Chances ignored by every type of vision except the three found in the PHB. Expanded Knowledge gives him the Shadow Evocation/Conjuration Spells if he wants to run entire levels behind every other Class or the much more valuable Simulacrum/Ice Assassin for action breaking.

A Warmage on the hand sells it's self as a "blaster" and when you've got a good post telling you Wizards should be played for CC effects someone like JK wipes his hands and moves on. A real person however would at least take the moment and consult the Spell List. In additional the universally useful damage line of Spells the Warmage packs a line of area based Save-less CC spells (sleet storm, black tentacles, acid fog, waves of exhaustion, etc), Beguiler comparable Save-or-Sucks (shatter, gust of wind, cloudkill, earthquake, all the orb spells), real Save-or-Dies (phantasmal killer, cloudkill, circle of death, finger of death, implosion), and Magic-Blocking defenses like Prismatic Wall/Sphere. Through Extended Knowledge the Warmage can learn things like Wings of Cover, Blasphemy/Holy Word, Contingency, Slashing Dispel (normally worth nothing, but in this case it's the only way either of them obtain access to Dispel without Feats/Items/PrCs), even increased methods of movement(firestride exaltation is a smaller ranged DDoor+damage, lord of the sky or wingblast for flight, even a gaseous form that can blind people out of DM). In effect, the Warmage's default answer is nuke them, but he has the same choice to provide area debuffs, or area kills in case his party cannot immediately follow up, as well as real auto-win buttons and utility support like flight and magical deflection. His direct damage is also better set up for Fell Animate, combined with his other Necromancy Spells and Expanded options (desecrate is evocation) he even makes a better Necromancer as well to make up for the lack of Shadow Conjuration'ing up creatures twelve levels below him as the Beguiler can.

Class Feature Wise, well they both suck. But you know JK. Factotums freaking rule, Rogues are solid T3s, Beguiler pwns, common denominator is Trapfinding in case you're not understanding the bias I'm sarcastically pointing out here. So no never mind to the Warmage's higher AC, freebie Suddens, and the iconic Charisma Synergy right? See, that last one is a big one. Out of the three Mental Scores, Charisma is the easiest to increase and the most wildly applicable. This means even if you handed the Warmage the Beguiler's Spell List, a mid-level Warmage does the Beguiler's entire role better than the Beguiler does thanks to nearly impossible to fail Save DCs that you just can't squeeze out of Intelligence without POA. This also means those real Save-or-Dies the Warmage has are incredibility potent, ending entire Encounters before another character or opponent(s) get to act.

Fundamentally it boils down to the Beguiler can only help during Encounters. A Warmage can provide help or solo the Encounter.

There are a few points you seem to be ignoring here that I feel compelled to bring up.  First, beguilers can actually end encounters - charmed opponents won't fight back and don't need killing.  Dominated opponents won't fight back and don't need killing.  Killing is not the only outcome of an encounter - if I sleep or confuse all the bad guys I can simply walk right by.  I could also point out that charm and dominate last long enough for me to bring my newfound friends into other encounters and have them attack.  Hell, with a beguiler I can actually pick which encounters I want to fight and we can get into massive arguments over the illusion interaction rules.

There are a few rules written into the classes you're ignoring as well.  They BOTH get the armored mage class feature, so I'm not sure where you're getting warmage higher AC from.  The beguiler gets dispel magic and greater dispel on its spell list as well, thus making slashing dispel an argument against the warmage.  The warmage advanced learning specifically calls out wizard spells as learnable, so warmages cannot get desecrate and holy word because they are not wizard spells.

As far as blasting goes I still can't figure out why I'm expected to care about the warmage blasting superiority.  Yes, you can do a small pile of damage if you dump a ton of character resources into it.  Meanwhile, the beguiler can contribute to combat by casting slow, image spells, and enchantments and doesn't need to sink massive amounts of character resources to stay on the damage train.  The end result is that the bad guys don't get to take turns any more and you've won the combat and can go do things like "not get robbed" or "go to town."

Lastly, there's no reason to play a warmage in the first quarter of the game.  Nothing in your analysis indicates any reason that a warmage is a valuable and contributing party member at any level less than six.  Beguilers can throw around sleep, color spray, and glitterdust and contribute to the party in that fashion (in addition to their skills).  Warmages, on the other hand, are doing less damage than archers and melee fighters, don't have the ac to mix it up in melee, and aren't actually at the level that any of these charisma boosts come online yet.  So I have no idea how the hell one is supposed to justify the warmage taking party loot and experience until they hit level six.

P.S.  I believe healers arbitrarily get access to all sanctified spells, so that might be something you may want to look at.

[SorO_Lost]

There are a few points you seem to be ignoring here that I feel compelled to bring up.

That's fine but prepared to have some returned.

First, beguilers can actually end encounters - charmed opponents won't fight back and don't need killing.

First, Charm/Dominate doesn't work against Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead or Vermin. Secondly Charm/Dominate Person doesn't work against Aberrations, Animals, Dragons, Elementals, Feys, Giants, Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, or Outsiders. Thirdly, not all Humanoids know Common by default and Charm/Dominate are Language dependent. Fourthly, they don't end Encounters.

Charming a creature to stop fighting while the Fighter is next to him grants the creature a massive +5 Bonus to his Save (currently being threaten), and you can't even convince the creature to allow you to pass without an additional charisma based check, because it's against what a guard or patrol or hungry cannibal would normally do. And if you attempt to circle the guy to "ambush him" he auto-breaks Charm (any threats break it).

Dominate on the other hand awards additional Saves with a +2 Bonus per order. If you Dominate a creature and tell it to stop fighting when it would normally fight, it resaves. Then you order it to show you the way, it resaves. And when the creature does Resave, he can instantly start a new Encounter except the rest of your Party is Flat-Footed during his Surprise round. That's pretty f'ing harsh when you think about it.

Phantasmal Killer, the Mind-Affecting independent Cloudkill, the rape you Circle of Death, and lol Implosion end the Encounter. Charm/Dominate just delays it, *if* they work in the first place.

They BOTH get the armored mage class feature, so I'm not sure where you're getting warmage higher AC from.

You didn't actually read the entries did you? Warmage gets Shields, Beguiler didn't. So while one of them is waiting until they can afford a Mitheral Buckler, the other is looking forward to increasing his already obtained Bonuses.

The beguiler gets dispel magic and greater dispel on its spell list as well, thus making slashing dispel an argument against the warmage.  The warmage advanced learning specifically calls out wizard spells as learnable, so warmages cannot get desecrate and holy word because they are not wizard spells.

I did miss Dispel, good thing I didn't care too much about. Also "Wizard Spells" can be proven it's not synonymous with "Wizard Spell List" and when I mentioned Holy Word I was talking about Saveless Encounter Winners, sticking to generic Wizard Spells only does not remove Amber Sarcophagus's Save-less stasis or Iceberg's FoM bypassing auto burial & CL/d6 damage so the point still stands.

As far as blasting goes I still can't figure out why I'm expected to care about the warmage blasting superiority.  Yes, you can do a small pile of damage if you dump a ton of character resources into it.

Damage by far is the easiest trait to optimize in D&D.

Lastly, there's no reason to play a warmage in the first quarter of the game.

I'm going to take this last standing point of your rebuttal as agreement that later on the Warmage is better if you don't mind. And it all comes back to how you build them.

For instance, a gish focused Warmage may tank his Edge (it's not that significant anyway) and focus on Strength. Fist of Stone is a 1st level Spell that not only grants a Natural Weapon allowing the Warmage to make multiple Attacks per round while the Fighter and Barbarian are five levels away from such, Fist of Stone gives a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength. Holy crap right? A brute force Warmage makes a better Fighter than a ACFed to holy hell Barbarian.

Alternatively you can play as the blaster archetype you're supposed to. The Elder Giant Magic Feat can be taken now and retrained out later since you won't be using it with Creation/Fabricate. Precasting and holding the Charge to Shocking Touch means you have an opening 4d6+IntMod Touch Attack for at least three out of four Encounters per day. A Greatsword swinging 18 Str Meleer deals 13 damage so you're already dealing more than mundanes with a better hit chance (touch based). But say you want to take another step in, Iron Will and Reserves of Strength via Flaws brings this to 7d6+IntMod thanks to breaking die caps, now you're dealing Ubercharger damage as a Touch Attack for probably all four Encounters (and said ACF'ed to holy hell Barbarian has Frenzy for only a single Encounter).

Either way, the Warmage out 'DPSes' everyone else and later on he never even had to pay for those advantages.

Level 4 rolls around, the Beguiler gets his Glitterdust. Yeahee, he can has a Save-vs-Blind for 4 rounds, hits a 10ft area. Utility support of revealing hidden creatures (like a torch) or Invisible ones (like that Pixie because everything else auto-loses Invisibility when they attack). The Warmage also gets a Save-vs-Blind, Pyrotechnics. Nearly the same Duration (avg 3.5) but trades in needing a torch or candle to center on for to duodectuplet the affected area (120ft vs 10ft). Additionally, you can choose to deny the Will Saves against Blind and use the Spell to create a 20ft cloud that negates vision and instead they Save against a -4 penalty to Str/Dex. Oh, and without Feats he deals 28+ damage per round now (Scorching Ray) which is more than an Ubercharger without Rage so you can already retrain those Feats out.

Level 6 rolls around and the Beguiler gets Save-vs-Slow and opponents have to choose between Attacking or Moving, awesome right? The Warmage has Gust of Wind to move things about and counter fog spells, Poison's Ability damage, Sleet Storm for superior-Grease, and Stinking Cloud's Slow-but-you-never-get-to-choose-to-attack (ie it's better than Slow). He also had Shatter two levels ago which can be used to negate a Cleric's Spellcasting, a Ubercharger's damage, or well anything else you can think of.

So by "first quarter", I think you mean level one. And under the circumstances that the Warmage's one-hit kills is depreciated when you have one to two other party members capable of doing such as well.