What class/build to play?

[Reshy]

Right now I'm about to join a game with an existing party going on.  The party consists of two rogues, a druid, a paladin, and a wizard (who is useless).  The DM's kind of shaky, this being her first game and she seems to utterly despise any race that sticks out as unusual or abnormal.  So I'm looking for roleplay ideas, as well as a class build to use.  The less books the better, though anything's on the table except flaws and 'abnormal' races.  Also, everyone's starting at level one for this, so I can't just jump into a 6th level build.  I'd like to have one that starts off strong and keeps that up over the course of the game.

EDIT:  I don't care if the character is combat focus of social focused (Like a Diplomancer) just so long that it's fun, effective, and relatively simple.

[Raineh Daze]

Go for human; it's generally better than weird stuff anyway.

[wotmaniac]

Could you explain exactly what it is that makes the wizard useless?  That might help narrow down where you might be most effective.

With that many people already in the party, I'd be inclined to go bard -- you won't need much (Core+SC+ECS+Completes ... maybe more if you want to go crazy).
Of course, as I say that, it occurs to me that competently-played bards tend to wreak havoc upon uninitiated DMs. 

Maybe a cleric?  That frees up the druid to concentrate on offense; also, the paladin's turning is rather weak.

[Maat Mons]

If you go arcane, you'll probably want to be as different as possible from the wizard.  If you're essentially a better version of him, he probably won't be happy.  Oriental Adventures has an option for sorcerers to use the wu jen spell list instead of the sorcerer/wizard spell list. 

[Reshy]

Could you explain exactly what it is that makes the wizard useless?  That might help narrow down where you might be most effective.

With that many people already in the party, I'd be inclined to go bard -- you won't need much (Core+SC+ECS+Completes ... maybe more if you want to go crazy).
Of course, as I say that, it occurs to me that competently-played bards tend to wreak havoc upon uninitiated DMs. 

Maybe a cleric?  That frees up the druid to concentrate on offense; also, the paladin's turning is rather weak.

The wizard has a habit of throwing all his spells out and focusing on being a blaster.  Which isn't the point of the wizard.


What about Bards makes them wreak havoc on DM's and what kind of build are you suggesting?

If you go arcane, you'll probably want to be as different as possible from the wizard.  If you're essentially a better version of him, he probably won't be happy.  Oriental Adventures has an option for sorcerers to use the wu jen spell list instead of the sorcerer/wizard spell list. 

The wizard is trying to be a blaster and is doing poorly at it. My original character was going to be a Tiefling Wizard but that got shot down because "She's a demon!".  So I was vastly disappointed, considering how much effort I put into making a backstory.

[Raineh Daze]

Well, bards can casually add something like 12 sonic damage... to every hit... that EVERY ally makes... at level 6? Not counting other buffs. Including the straight damage boosts from using Inspire Courage (or whatever it is) normally.

[CaptRory]

If the wizard needs help you can point him here.

Or... here's a post of mine talking about how wizards should prioritize their spells. You might want to print it out for him.

[Slippery_Chicken]

I imagine Bards wreak havoc because new GMs don't know what to do with PCs having high social skills. Social skills are just as OP in-game as they are in real life. The guy with 20 INT might have found a cure for cancer, and a guy with 20 Wisdom might have found enlightenment, but the guy with Charisma 20 can lead an army and bang whoever he wants.

I was also going to suggest Bard, assuming the Rogues don't already have social skills covered. I'd consider DFA, but it's not strictly necessary. Just pump regular Inspire Courage and watch that bonus multiply across the entire party, plus the Druid's animal companion, plus anything the Druid summons via SNA. For social skills, you don't need to go full-on Diplomancy, but it can help to try to talk your enemies down instead of fighting, especially if the GM gives XP for that.

As mentioned before, Humans are one of the best races in the game, so you aren't missing out on much. Hooray for ethnocentrism!

Could you explain exactly what it is that makes the wizard useless?  That might help narrow down where you might be most effective.

Wizard is one of the easiest classes to screw up. In addition to knowing which spells to learn, the whole preparation mechanic is kind of dependent on the player anticipating which spells are going to be useful in a given day (a difficult proposition in a real game, doubly so if your GM doesn't do prepwork). Not to mention that any Wizard must be acutely aware of his classes strengths (support, utility, knowledge) and shamelessly play to them at all times, because overextending is a recipe for disaster. It also requires an crapload of bookkeeping which few players have time for.

Also, the OP might define "useless" as "doesn't have big numbers in combat". It's an extremely narrow, shortsighted definition, but it's a common one, and low/mid-op wizards often compare poorly under that metric.

[Reshy]

I imagine Bards wreak havoc because new GMs don't know what to do with PCs having high social skills. Social skills are just as OP in-game as they are in real life. The guy with 20 INT might have found a cure for cancer, and a guy with 20 Wisdom might have found enlightenment, but the guy with Charisma 20 can lead an army and bang whoever he wants.

I was also going to suggest Bard, assuming the Rogues don't already have social skills covered. I'd consider DFA, but it's not strictly necessary. Just pump regular Inspire Courage and watch that bonus multiply across the entire party, plus the Druid's animal companion, plus anything the Druid summons via SNA. For social skills, you don't need to go full-on Diplomancy, but it can help to try to talk your enemies down instead of fighting, especially if the GM gives XP for that.

As mentioned before, Humans are one of the best races in the game, so you aren't missing out on much. Hooray for ethnocentrism!

Could you explain exactly what it is that makes the wizard useless?  That might help narrow down where you might be most effective.

Wizard is one of the easiest classes to screw up. In addition to knowing which spells to learn, the whole preparation mechanic is kind of dependent on the player anticipating which spells are going to be useful in a given day (a difficult proposition in a real game, doubly so if your GM doesn't do prepwork). Not to mention that any Wizard must be acutely aware of his classes strengths (support, utility, knowledge) and shamelessly play to them at all times, because overextending is a recipe for disaster. It also requires an crapload of bookkeeping which few players have time for.

Also, the OP might define "useless" as "doesn't have big numbers in combat". It's an extremely narrow, shortsighted definition, but it's a common one, and low/mid-op wizards often compare poorly under that metric.

Think I could get a good build for a Bard that capitalizes on high social skills?  I've seen some 'Diplomancer' builds but most of them require a lot of gymnastics (Venerable, flaws, etc.) and aren't terribly well explained.  Giant Tip's down and that's one of the places I was looking for builds but it's been closed for a few days now so I lost access to all my resources there.  I'm also starting at level 1 and it's worth noting that no one in the party has any social skills.

I wanted to be a wizard, but my character was a Tiefling and the DM freaked and said I'm not allowed to roleplay a 'demon'.  Which sucked because I worked my ass off on her and since she was rejected I failed my will save and lost all my creative spark for 4d6 days.

Also by useless I mean likes to fight other party members and tries to set things on fire with spells like scorching hand.  Utterly useless.  He's bad enough that we just say "We have a rogue, a druid, another rogue, a paladin, and then there's zoidberg"  Only replace Zoidberg with the player's actual name.  Out of all the players I seem to be the only one actually trying to make a decent character, but at the same time I want to be able to get into the role rather than just getting into the roll.

[Endarire]

Inspire them well.

[wotmaniac]

Bards wreak havoc on newb DMs because it completely changes the entire dynamic that they're expecting.  Everybody gets better, and a lot of DMs don't know how to properly adjust for that.

If the wizard is just blasting (and being an especially dumb blaster, at that) .... that's relatively easy to route around.
To compensate, you could:
1) non-blasty wizard/sorc
2) bard + heartfire fanner (dragmag 314):
The bard is a slow burn, since you can't qualify 'til 8th level .... but that's okay.
To keep it simple:
Human Bard 7/HFF 5/XXX
Max as many social skills as you can, +UMD, +whatever you got room for
Feats:
1 - Negotiator, Melodic Casting (CMage)
3 - Song of the Heart (ECS) (if able to use the Eb substitution, then get this PLUS Inspire Spellpower (RoS))
6 - SF(perform)
9 - Music of Growth (ECS) (if Eb sub., find yet another feat you like)
12 - I don't care after this
Since the wizard insists on blasting, you might as well embrace it.  He needs to pile on the MM feats, and HFF will give you a mechanism through which he can use them more effectively.
Make sure to loot CAdv for instruments.
Badge of Valor from MiC
Knowstones (UMD for spells not on your list)

Spells of note:
Inspirational Boost - 1st (SC)
Haste - 3rd
Celerity - 4th (PH2)

With the Badge, level 3 should get you a +4 on IC.

I'm sure this is gonna get hammered, but I try to take it easy on newb DMs.

[DaCraw]

Check with your DM about how they want to handle Diplomacy - it's pretty much broken by RAW. With only minor optimisation (getting an 18 in your main stat and putting points into a few synergistic skills that you'd probably want anyway) you can get a 50% change to turn an NPC from hostile to indifferent or from unfriendly to friendly ... at level 2. Most DMs houserule it one way or another to make it work the way one would expect it to.

That said, here's a basic build. I've left most of the DFI tricks until later in the build because at lower levels the bonus to the attack role can be more useful (particularly as the rogues may not have gotten weapon finesse online yet). At higher levels you're basically a sorcerer with bard tricks and buffs, but you have fewer spells known and are a spell level behind. Still, it should help to make up for Zoidberg. Bluff and diplomacy optimisation has been limited to picking skills for Synergy and grabbing a few useful items.

CG Silverbrow Human Bard 8, Warblade 1, Virtuoso 10, Sublime Chord 1

Order:
Bard 1-7, Virtuoso 1, Warblade 1, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 1, Virtuoso 2-10

Stats:
Minimum: Int 15 (I've assumed 16), Cha 15.
Pump Cha as high as possible, keep a reasonable Wis and Con, try to avoid a negative Dex, dump Str.

ACF:
1) Healing Hymn (CC) - Lose Fascinate (which you'll get back from Virtuoso 1), use a daily use of bardic music to add your Perform ranks to any Conjuration(healing) spells cast by your allies.

Feats:
H DFI
1 Melodic Casting
3 Song of the Heart
6 Words of Creation
9 Dragontouched
12 Draconic Heritage (Battle or Pyroclastic if you can get permission, copper, silver, or bronze otherwise)
15
18

Skills:

(click to show/hide)

Bard 1-7: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 10
Diplomacy (Cha) 10
Bluff (Cha) 10
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 4 (cross class, costs 8)
Spellcraft (Int) 10
UMD (Cha) 1

Virtoso 1: 9 Points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 11
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 9
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 1

Warblade 1: 7 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 12
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 2 (cross class, costs 2)
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Bard 8: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 12
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 5
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Sublime Chord: 7 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 13
Diplomacy (Cha) 14
Bluff (Cha) 14
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 5
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Virtuoso 2-10: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 23
Diplomacy (Cha) 23
Bluff (Cha) 23
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 23
Spellcraft (Int) 23
UMD (Cha) 14 (cross class, costs 18)
Wasted 1 (Warblade)
Wasted 1 (Virtuoso)

Maneuvers Known:
Leading the Charge (Stance, White Raven 1) - Allies gain a minor bonus on a charge
Wall of Blades (Counter, Iron Heart 2) - Make an attack roll to replace your AC
Iron Heart Surge (Iron Heart 3) - Remove any condition
White Raven Tactics (Boost, White Raven 3) - Change one ally's initiative, allowing them to act twice in a round

Items:
Along with the Big 6, try to get a Vest of Legends (+5 Bard levels for the purpose of bardic music) and a Circlet of Persuasion (+3 competence bonus to Cha based checks).

Notes:
Play a Mandolin (Complete Adventurer), as it increases your DFI or attack bonus by +1. Don't use DFI on things that are resistant to fire . As for social skills, you get +6 in synergy bonuses to Diplomacy (from Bluff, Sense Motive, and Knowledge Nobility), so you can befriend pretty much anyone. With a high Cha and (generally) full ranks in Bluff you'll be able to lie convincingly. If you also pick up Glibness as a spell known (or stock up on scrolls/wands of it) you'll be able to lie so convincingly that they'll believe you over the paladin . Intimidate is less likely to be useful, though, but it may be useful on occasion.

You could also be a regular Human. This will force you to take Dragontouched at first level (bumping Melodic Casting to 3rd and Song of the Heart to 9th), but it will give you one extra skill point per level. This will help if your DM is unhappy with you playing a Human that is descended from a dragon, and is probably better anyway.

This build does use quite a few books, though: (PHB, DMG, CAdv, CArc, CC, CM, ToB, DMag, RotD, Drac, BoED). If you need to cut this back, you could drop Warblade (ToB), Healing Hymn (CC), or battle or pyroclastic Dragon (RotD + Drac).

[Maat Mons]

I'm also starting at level 1 and it's worth noting that no one in the party has any social skills.

You can make a cleric startlingly socially adept at 1st level. 

The herald domain (Book of Exalted deeds, p87) adds intimidate to your class skills and gives a +4 sacred bonus to diplomacy and intimidate.  The domain focus alternative class feature (Dragon 347, p91) doubles the bonus provided by a domain, but removes your other domain and your ability to spontaneously cast cure spells.  Combining those, you have a +8 sacred bonus to diplomacy and intimidate, and you can have 4 ranks in both skills. 

The evangelist variant (Dragon 353, p88) gives you a +2 bonus on diplomacy (also comprehend languages 2/day), but removes turn undead. 

If you want to go full diplomancer, you can take the bind vestige and practiced binder feats and bind Naberius.  That lets you take 10 on diplomacy checks no matter what and removes the normal -10 penalty for making a rushed diplomacy check as a standard action.  (All from various parts of Tome of Magic.) 

Admittedly, the herald domain is hard to rectify with Naberius.  The joy domain (Book of Exalted Deeds, p87) can be used instead, but you give up intimidate.  Hedonism seems like a perfectly viable explanation for religiously dedicating yourself to joy and binding your soul to otherworldly entities. 

[Hades]

Imho you could go with wizard that uses BF control and other nondamaging spells: you don't overlap with "Zoidberg" since you'll have a different "focus" on your char.

And also, it's a silent way to say him: "THAT's how to play a wizard  "

[Reshy]

Imho you could go with wizard that uses BF control and other nondamaging spells: you don't overlap with "Zoidberg" since you'll have a different "focus" on your char.

And also, it's a silent way to say him: "THAT's how to play a wizard  "

That's what I WAS going to do, but my character got turned down for being a Tiefling despite having a backstory like you'd find in a novel.  Pissed me off to no end.

Check with your DM about how they want to handle Diplomacy - it's pretty much broken by RAW. With only minor optimisation (getting an 18 in your main stat and putting points into a few synergistic skills that you'd probably want anyway) you can get a 50% change to turn an NPC from hostile to indifferent or from unfriendly to friendly ... at level 2. Most DMs houserule it one way or another to make it work the way one would expect it to.

That said, here's a basic build. I've left most of the DFI tricks until later in the build because at lower levels the bonus to the attack role can be more useful (particularly as the rogues may not have gotten weapon finesse online yet). At higher levels you're basically a sorcerer with bard tricks and buffs, but you have fewer spells known and are a spell level behind. Still, it should help to make up for Zoidberg. Bluff and diplomacy optimisation has been limited to picking skills for Synergy and grabbing a few useful items.

CG Silverbrow Human Bard 8, Warblade 1, Virtuoso 10, Sublime Chord 1

Order:
Bard 1-7, Virtuoso 1, Warblade 1, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 1, Virtuoso 2-10

Stats:
Minimum: Int 15 (I've assumed 16), Cha 15.
Pump Cha as high as possible, keep a reasonable Wis and Con, try to avoid a negative Dex, dump Str.

ACF:
1) Healing Hymn (CC) - Lose Fascinate (which you'll get back from Virtuoso 1), use a daily use of bardic music to add your Perform ranks to any Conjuration(healing) spells cast by your allies.

Feats:
H DFI
1 Melodic Casting
3 Song of the Heart
6 Words of Creation
9 Dragontouched
12 Draconic Heritage (Battle or Pyroclastic if you can get permission, copper, silver, or bronze otherwise)
15
18

Skills:

(click to show/hide)

Bard 1-7: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 10
Diplomacy (Cha) 10
Bluff (Cha) 10
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 4 (cross class, costs 8)
Spellcraft (Int) 10
UMD (Cha) 1

Virtoso 1: 9 Points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 11
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 9
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 1

Warblade 1: 7 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 12
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 10
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 10
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 2 (cross class, costs 2)
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Bard 8: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 11
Diplomacy (Cha) 12
Bluff (Cha) 11
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 5
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Sublime Chord: 7 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 13
Diplomacy (Cha) 14
Bluff (Cha) 14
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 12
Spellcraft (Int) 11
UMD (Cha) 5
Wasted 1 (Warblade)

Virtuoso 2-10: 9 points per level
Perform (String) (Cha) 23
Diplomacy (Cha) 23
Bluff (Cha) 23
Sense Motive (Wis) 10
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int) 13
Knowledge (Nobility) (Int) 5
Listen (Wis) 13
Profession (Astrology) (Who Cares?) 6
Intimidate (Cha) 23
Spellcraft (Int) 23
UMD (Cha) 14 (cross class, costs 18)
Wasted 1 (Warblade)
Wasted 1 (Virtuoso)

Maneuvers Known:
Leading the Charge (Stance, White Raven 1) - Allies gain a minor bonus on a charge
Wall of Blades (Counter, Iron Heart 2) - Make an attack roll to replace your AC
Iron Heart Surge (Iron Heart 3) - Remove any condition
White Raven Tactics (Boost, White Raven 3) - Change one ally's initiative, allowing them to act twice in a round

Items:
Along with the Big 6, try to get a Vest of Legends (+5 Bard levels for the purpose of bardic music) and a Circlet of Persuasion (+3 competence bonus to Cha based checks).

Notes:
Play a Mandolin (Complete Adventurer), as it increases your DFI or attack bonus by +1. Don't use DFI on things that are resistant to fire . As for social skills, you get +6 in synergy bonuses to Diplomacy (from Bluff, Sense Motive, and Knowledge Nobility), so you can befriend pretty much anyone. With a high Cha and (generally) full ranks in Bluff you'll be able to lie convincingly. If you also pick up Glibness as a spell known (or stock up on scrolls/wands of it) you'll be able to lie so convincingly that they'll believe you over the paladin . Intimidate is less likely to be useful, though, but it may be useful on occasion.

You could also be a regular Human. This will force you to take Dragontouched at first level (bumping Melodic Casting to 3rd and Song of the Heart to 9th), but it will give you one extra skill point per level. This will help if your DM is unhappy with you playing a Human that is descended from a dragon, and is probably better anyway.

This build does use quite a few books, though: (PHB, DMG, CAdv, CArc, CC, CM, ToB, DMag, RotD, Drac, BoED). If you need to cut this back, you could drop Warblade (ToB), Healing Hymn (CC), or battle or pyroclastic Dragon (RotD + Drac).

I think we're going under the Assumption Rule for Diplomacy since she's not outright specified anything regarding it.  However, as mentioned she doesn't like any half dragons or half demons, so the Dragontouched or Draconic Heritage is out the window.  The campaign is completely homebrew and tends to move slowly, so it could be a while before I could even reach the second level.  The problem is that she doesn't have many of the books, and I have to provide her the books and let her read over them before she'll allow me to use them if she'll allow me at all.  It's been a very frustrating experience so far trying to make a character.

http://pastebin.com/dE6Gk8eK

Here's the scrapped Tiefling Wizard I was making, it's still a rough draft but you can see the amount of effort I poured into her.

Bards wreak havoc on newb DMs because it completely changes the entire dynamic that they're expecting.  Everybody gets better, and a lot of DMs don't know how to properly adjust for that.

If the wizard is just blasting (and being an especially dumb blaster, at that) .... that's relatively easy to route around.
To compensate, you could:
1) non-blasty wizard/sorc
2) bard + heartfire fanner (dragmag 314):
The bard is a slow burn, since you can't qualify 'til 8th level .... but that's okay.
To keep it simple:
Human Bard 7/HFF 5/XXX
Max as many social skills as you can, +UMD, +whatever you got room for
Feats:
1 - Negotiator, Melodic Casting (CMage)
3 - Song of the Heart (ECS) (if able to use the Eb substitution, then get this PLUS Inspire Spellpower (RoS))
6 - SF(perform)
9 - Music of Growth (ECS) (if Eb sub., find yet another feat you like)
12 - I don't care after this
Since the wizard insists on blasting, you might as well embrace it.  He needs to pile on the MM feats, and HFF will give you a mechanism through which he can use them more effectively.
Make sure to loot CAdv for instruments.
Badge of Valor from MiC
Knowstones (UMD for spells not on your list)

Spells of note:
Inspirational Boost - 1st (SC)
Haste - 3rd
Celerity - 4th (PH2)

With the Badge, level 3 should get you a +4 on IC.

I'm sure this is gonna get hammered, but I try to take it easy on newb DMs.

The party as a whole is unoptimized, being fairly weak.  The DM even said "So what are you guys going to do in a fight where you have to actually hit something?".  So it's a pretty grim situation.  I could do either, I did a lot of research on the Wizard but my previous character got turned down for reasons.  So I've been bummed out about it, so I'm thinking of being a Bard that focuses on making people helpful, then buffing them up.  Assuming that's even possible with how limited my race selection is.

Now I can be a Half-Elf, Human, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, etc. just not anything exotic like a half dragon (we got one already) or some kind of outsider or monster (Eg.  Tiefling, Kobold, Elan, etc.).  Because according to her she'd have a hard time DMing with characters that could possibly be seen as a monster by the townsfolk. 

[Raineh Daze]

'I have a dragon waaaaaaaaaaay back in my family tree, that doesn't alter how I look at all' is basically what the draconic heritage stuff does.

I take it she's never seen a picture of how half-dragons are apparently meant to look? Look in the various dragon-themed books. <.<

[phaedrusxy]

You're starting at 1st level, and will probably level up slowly? Be a human fighter or barbarian, focused on tripping. Seriously. It is surprisingly effective at lower levels, and will give your party a bigger bonus to attack rolls (+4 to hit prone enemies in melee) than a bard would for many, many levels. It also effectively boosts their armor classes (-4 penalty to attack while prone), grants free attacks to everyone (if the enemy stands up), and you'll be pretty effective at protecting the "squishier" members, acting as a literal human wall.

Required Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
Use a guisarme + spiked armor, unless you really want to go with a spiked chain.

Edit: If you can use FR material, I'd suggest going with a barbarian with the Wolf Berzerker feat, instead of a fighter. It is an alternative prereq for Improved Trip which lets you avoid having to buy a 13 Intelligence. It also gives you another +4 bonus to your trips, which is awesome. It's from the Unapproachable East book, and has some fluff attached to it, though. If you do that, you might consider seeing if you can use the Whirling Frenzy variant as well as the Lion Totem (Complete Champion). I'd worry about cries of being overpowered if the DM allows all of that, though.

[wotmaniac]

That's what I WAS going to do, but my character got turned down for being a Tiefling despite having a backstory like you'd find in a novel.  Pissed me off to no end.

So .... change to a human and refluff the backstory?
Just sayin'.

The party as a whole is unoptimized, being fairly weak.  The DM even said "So what are you guys going to do in a fight where you have to actually hit something?".  So it's a pretty grim situation.  I could do either, I did a lot of research on the Wizard but my previous character got turned down for reasons.  So I've been bummed out about it, so I'm thinking of being a Bard that focuses on making people helpful, then buffing them up.  Assuming that's even possible with how limited my race selection is.

All the more reason to play a bard.  (provided, of course, that you don't mind playing second-fiddle in combat; no worries, you'll have plenty of non-combat time to take center stage)

Because according to her she'd have a hard time DMing with characters that could possibly be seen as a monster by the townsfolk.

In and of itself, this is actually quite a valid position.  Different people have different tolerances for "weird" stuff -- and "closer to RW than 'gonzo fantasy'" is a personal stylistic choice.  If the DM can't get immersed in to what's going on, there's nowhere to go but down.

One could knock the DM's lack of imagination for forcing you into a perceptively "boring" character .... but the same could be said for someone that couldn't make/developing a flavorful, interesting, and engaging character because "DM says no demon-/dragon-spawn".
(just showing you both side of that coin -- please don't assume judgement on my part)


Also, PXY speaks wisdom.   
After all, a chain-tripper is basically just close-range BFC (and it would be irresponsible to not throw on disarming, while you're at it).

[Slippery_Chicken]

Think I could get a good build for a Bard that capitalizes on high social skills?  I've seen some 'Diplomancer' builds but most of them require a lot of gymnastics (Venerable, flaws, etc.) and aren't terribly well explained. 

The thing about social skills is that it's extremely GM-dependent. You'll want to figure out how the group handles it. If the GM is out to get you, then social skills probably won't help much unless he has an unwavering sense of sportsmanship. If your GM despises the social skills as "roll-playing", or auto-fails social skills based on OOC roleplay, then you might as well dump Charisma to 7, take real-life acting classes, and never look at the social skills again. However, If your group runs it by the book, and runs into lots of NPCs, then social skills can get you all kinds of stuff if you know how to ask.

As far as builds go, any Bard is going to be good at social skills. Just put ranks in social skills, have good charisma, and use some helpful spells (such as Glibness and Wieldskill), and you should pass most of your checks. You probably don't need to turn people from Hostile to Helpful with a single full-round action (and probably don't want to either, for fear of GM-rage), so you really don't need your Item Familiar of +30 luck bonus to Bluff.

Another tip for the race thing: I recommend getting the concept okayed before you spend 3 weeks working on a backstory. Maybe if you could get some guidance on what races/classes are acceptable. Also, weaving your character into the campaign setting and tying him/her to organizations/events should help leverage the GM's self-interest by validating the effort s/he spent creating the world.'

For the druid devoting spell slots to healing: Just grab a wand or two of CLW once you can afford it. That can handle out-of-combat healing quite nicely. For in-combat burst healing, you can grab a Healing Belt from MiC.

[Reshy]

'I have a dragon waaaaaaaaaaay back in my family tree, that doesn't alter how I look at all' is basically what the draconic heritage stuff does.

I take it she's never seen a picture of how half-dragons are apparently meant to look? Look in the various dragon-themed books. <.<

She said that there's already one in the group so no.

That's what I WAS going to do, but my character got turned down for being a Tiefling despite having a backstory like you'd find in a novel.  Pissed me off to no end.

So .... change to a human and refluff the backstory?
Just sayin'.

The party as a whole is unoptimized, being fairly weak.  The DM even said "So what are you guys going to do in a fight where you have to actually hit something?".  So it's a pretty grim situation.  I could do either, I did a lot of research on the Wizard but my previous character got turned down for reasons.  So I've been bummed out about it, so I'm thinking of being a Bard that focuses on making people helpful, then buffing them up.  Assuming that's even possible with how limited my race selection is.

All the more reason to play a bard.  (provided, of course, that you don't mind playing second-fiddle in combat; no worries, you'll have plenty of non-combat time to take center stage)

Because according to her she'd have a hard time DMing with characters that could possibly be seen as a monster by the townsfolk.

In and of itself, this is actually quite a valid position.  Different people have different tolerances for "weird" stuff -- and "closer to RW than 'gonzo fantasy'" is a personal stylistic choice.  If the DM can't get immersed in to what's going on, there's nowhere to go but down.

One could knock the DM's lack of imagination for forcing you into a perceptively "boring" character .... but the same could be said for someone that couldn't make/developing a flavorful, interesting, and engaging character because "DM says no demon-/dragon-spawn".
(just showing you both side of that coin -- please don't assume judgement on my part)


Also, PXY speaks wisdom.   
After all, a chain-tripper is basically just close-range BFC (and it would be irresponsible to not throw on disarming, while you're at it).

Difficult to refluff it on the fly like that, since most of it would be different anyway.  Not to mention my mood has dipped.


I'll probably go bard then, I noticed that there's a racial substitution for Half-Elves that allows you to calm enemies once fighting has actually broken out.  Could be useful for a social character.


Also I had at one point thought up a 'Jackass Wizard' basically acting more like you'd expect a Genie to, except with gold pieces.  "I could banish that Balor for you, but I'd need a kickback first" and other shenanigans like pilfering other PC's stuff for valuable items if they don't pay up.  Lawful Evil/Neutral probably.  I mostly thought up the idea because I was feeling spiteful earlier, and I doubt the rest of the players would appreciate it either.

You're starting at 1st level, and will probably level up slowly? Be a human fighter or barbarian, focused on tripping. Seriously. It is surprisingly effective at lower levels, and will give your party a bigger bonus to attack rolls (+4 to hit prone enemies in melee) than a bard would for many, many levels. It also effectively boosts their armor classes (-4 penalty to attack while prone), grants free attacks to everyone (if the enemy stands up), and you'll be pretty effective at protecting the "squishier" members, acting as a literal human wall.

Required Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
Use a guisarme + spiked armor, unless you really want to go with a spiked chain.

Edit: If you can use FR material, I'd suggest going with a barbarian with the Wolf Berzerker feat, instead of a fighter. It is an alternative prereq for Improved Trip which lets you avoid having to buy a 13 Intelligence. It also gives you another +4 bonus to your trips, which is awesome. It's from the Unapproachable East book, and has some fluff attached to it, though. If you do that, you might consider seeing if you can use the Whirling Frenzy variant as well as the Lion Totem (Complete Champion). I'd worry about cries of being overpowered if the DM allows all of that, though.

That may be an idea, the DM said she was going to let players change characters after every 5 or so level 'blocks' if they wanted to.

Think I could get a good build for a Bard that capitalizes on high social skills?  I've seen some 'Diplomancer' builds but most of them require a lot of gymnastics (Venerable, flaws, etc.) and aren't terribly well explained. 

The thing about social skills is that it's extremely GM-dependent. You'll want to figure out how the group handles it. If the GM is out to get you, then social skills probably won't help much unless he has an unwavering sense of sportsmanship. If your GM despises the social skills as "roll-playing", or auto-fails social skills based on OOC roleplay, then you might as well dump Charisma to 7, take real-life acting classes, and never look at the social skills again. However, If your group runs it by the book, and runs into lots of NPCs, then social skills can get you all kinds of stuff if you know how to ask.

As far as builds go, any Bard is going to be good at social skills. Just put ranks in social skills, have good charisma, and use some helpful spells (such as Glibness and Wieldskill), and you should pass most of your checks. You probably don't need to turn people from Hostile to Helpful with a single full-round action (and probably don't want to either, for fear of GM-rage), so you really don't need your Item Familiar of +30 luck bonus to Bluff.

Another tip for the race thing: I recommend getting the concept okayed before you spend 3 weeks working on a backstory. Maybe if you could get some guidance on what races/classes are acceptable. Also, weaving your character into the campaign setting and tying him/her to organizations/events should help leverage the GM's self-interest by validating the effort s/he spent creating the world.'

For the druid devoting spell slots to healing: Just grab a wand or two of CLW once you can afford it. That can handle out-of-combat healing quite nicely. For in-combat burst healing, you can grab a Healing Belt from MiC.

I asked her so I guess we'll see what happens.  Also she's been very vague about what is and what is not acceptable, basically anything that's not human-like in appearance is a no.  Honestly I cannot say how exactly she will handle it, this is her first game she's DMing.