Author Topic: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?  (Read 4430 times)

Offline Karlton

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Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« on: March 27, 2014, 07:44:46 AM »
Hello there!

I am making a cleric for a level 1-20+ campaign set in the undead heavy Ravenloft campaign world. In an effort to equalize the party (and to make us more controllable), the DM has restricted us to PHB + DMG + MM1 material, and has furthermore ruled that clerics always needs to be devoted to a specific deity. Under these restrictions, I have to build a character that is fun to play and makes the most of his options.

The build:

Race:
Dwarf

Stats (28 pts point buy):
S: 16
D: 8
C: 16
I: 12
W: 15
C: 6

Deity:
Kord - I would have liked to make him a cleric of Moradin instead, but Moradin just sucks too hard to be worthy of consideration because of his lousy domain options. Kord, at least, has one good domain.

Domains:
Luck and Strength

Skills:
Spellcraft - Maxed
Konwledge: Religion - Maxed
Concentration - Maxed

Feats:
1: Improved Initiative
3: Extend Spell
6: Power Attack
9: Quicken Spell
12: ???
15: ???
18: ???

The feats also gives me a headache. Apart from the four feats I have already picked, I really don't see any even remotely good feats in the three available books. What I consider:

1) Great Fortitude, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes will each increase my chances of a successful save by 10%, which could potentially save the day when save-or-lose/die effects become common.

2) Craft Wand and Craft Wondrous Item could belt me get more and better items earlier, but with only DMG items to spend my WBL on I suppose that the advantage is somewhat lessened. This leaves a slot open for:
- 2a) Improved Unarmed Strike would be fluffy for a cleric of Kord, but even with that feat I would still suck at actual  unarmed combat, and all of the other feats on that tree requires dex 13+ which I will never have.
- 2b) MWP: Greataxe would upgrade my damage and my crit multiplier considerably from that of the humble morningstar, but as I will be using a longspear as my main weapon, the advantage would probably not come into play that often. Also, liches would own me.

Am I missing something here, or are clerics just this low on options in core? How is my last three feats best spent?

Offline Lokd0wn

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 08:09:29 AM »
Firstly limiting a game to core only really helps Wizards, Druids and to a lesser extent Clerics.

As for your question due to that fact your CHA is low the best feat options for you are the ones you've already picked out. In core only Empower Spell can also be pretty useful.

If you really want to go for broke, as you know it's an undead heavy campaign a Human Cleric of Pelor with a decent CHA and Improved Turning would be nice.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:11:26 AM by Lokd0wn »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 08:24:25 AM »
If you really want to go for broke, as you know it's an undead heavy campaign a Human Cleric of Pelor with a decent CHA and Improved Turning would be nice.
This. With 28 pb it is hard to make, though, as you're going to have a lot of MAD.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:27:19 AM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline Karlton

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 09:31:24 AM »
In this specific campaign, Pelor is an evil god of hatred and deciet, who merely poses as a good god to draw followers away from the actual powers of good. I could male a sun-priest of Ehlonna, however.

Such a character would be a 14/8/14/10/15/14 human cleric 20, with feats as above with the addition of Improved Turning at level 1. More powerful against undead, but less powerful in overall combat.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 09:47:39 AM »
Focus a bit on save-or-suck spells?  At this point, Greater Spell Focus may be like one of your few good options. 

I literally cannot conceive of playing a Core only game at this point in 3E's development/death.  And, seriously, all that Core says is "fuck you warriors!" 

Offline Lokd0wn

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 09:49:32 AM »
Yeah whichever god that gives you access to the Sun domain is probably what you want to go for. The domain spells also link in nicely with Empower Spell, an empowered Searing Light can really do a number on undead.

As for your stats I'd be more inclined to go 14/10/14/8/16/12. You can still max out your relevant skills due to the human bonus, you lose the negative to AC/initiative etc and you'll get an additional level 3 spell and +1 to DC's. Not quite as good at turning but with CHA 12 and Improved turning, as long as you can keep your CHA buffed relative to level it should do you fine.

Offline Hades

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 10:10:19 AM »
Being undead heavy, I recommend too to take the Sun Domain.

And yes, core only games actually may be even more unbalanced that "allow all 3.5 materials", since caster still gets gamebreakers like shapechange, time stop, polymorph, etc., while classes like barbarian and fighters are stripped of almost necessary things to be a bit better like Lion Totem and Dungeoncrasher, and classes like bards & rangers, wich gets nice support in splatbooks are relegated to general sucking.

Offline Gribel

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 10:28:42 AM »
For feats, Spell Focus (Conjuration) -> Augment Summoning might be useful if you plan on summoning. In my experience it is better than buffing yourself and melee'ing as a core cleric.
Oh, and stinking cloud has to be one of my favorate battlefield spells. Combined with sleet stor, you can shut a group down and keep them shut down, trapped inside a fart. When does that ever get old?

Offline Lokd0wn

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 11:25:34 AM »
Isn't summoning severely limited in Ravenloft?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 05:07:02 PM »
I'm partial to Craft Wondrous as early as possible,
relative to the amount of useful treasure you get
and local magic mart availability.

"Custom" items on the table look-up, are not Custom items.

Parts of the Quickstart Cleric Archer are available in Core.
Not great, but not bad. 
Assumes you don't wanna be a frontliner.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Core cleric 20 build. Why is this difficult?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 07:53:47 PM »
Leadership.

There are feats in the DMG, by the way.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:56:04 PM by ketaro »