Necrotic Cowboys [3.5]

[Raineh Daze]

My backup plan if powerbard isn't acceptable: the world needs more Nazgul!

[phaedrusxy]

My backup plan if powerbard isn't acceptable: the world needs more Nazgul!

I was working on a wraith build a while back. Here is what I came up with.

You know... this would probably be a great game to try out Osteomancy in... if I had time to read through it.

If you snag it, you would have DM assistance... In so much as I'd be happy to hold your hand through learning it

So it looks like it uses a power point system like a Psion, "learns" powers kind of like a wizard (except instead of a spellbook, it has a bunch of bones that it uses as foci), and it needs bones from more powerful creatures to work as foci for more powerful effects. The DCs are also partially determined by the HD of the bones used. Sound about right?

[Stratovarius]

My backup plan if powerbard isn't acceptable: the world needs more Nazgul!

I'm not hearing any problematic parts yet. Think you can draw up a basic char sheet/class layout?

Also, for those that don't know, Marleath was the original setting for my Ritual Magic system, although that's changed a little now.

[Raineh Daze]

I suppose the hard part with the undead stuff is effectively always being one level behind where I should be...

Eh, there's not really much to say. Human* Powerbard first (because the bonus feat is more useful for the base than the ghost. >_>; ), then Ghost on top, using the ACF that gives me a Caster/Initiator/Manifester/etc. level to catch up.

Inside the Winter Storm
Rhythm, Dragonforce 1
Area: 60-foot radius emanation centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Your allies' weapons acquire a coating of frost, creaking with sudden cold.

All allies within the area deal an additional +2d6 cold damage with every attack for the duration of the chord.

Remember the Trashcan
Rhythm, Wyld Stallynz 1
Area: 60-foot radius burst centered on you
Duration: 1 minute or until discharged
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Your allies suddenly feel luckier than usual.

All allies within range (including yourself) gain a luck bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on their next saving throw, as long as it occurs within 1 minute from when you played this chord.

Those two or three times a day each, telekinesis (1d4 rounds, CL = HD) and dimension door (myself and ghostly stuff only) from being a ghost, and some standard-action abilities that give lesser boosts. Thinking these three:

Presto Con Fuoco -- Allies within 30 feet deal +2 energy damage, gain energy resistance 3 for 1 round/level.
Vivace -- Allies within 30 feet gain 1d4 temporary hit points for 1 round/level.
Marcia -- Allies within 30 feet gain +5 foot morale bonus to land speed and the Run feat for 1 round/level.**

As for feats?

Musically Gifted (Cha counts as 2 higher where music is concerned), Up-Tempo [Chord] (can play the lesser things as a Swift action CHA Mod times a day), Subliminal Tune [Chord] (spend two uses to play music silently somehow).

*Because CHA-boosting races are rare and Lesser Aasimar would be weird.
**For running away.

The hardest part is working out what their skill list is like, since they get 6+ but SirP basically consolidated half of them, so it works out as twice that or more. @_@

[Stratovarius]

So it looks like it uses a power point system like a Psion, "learns" powers kind of like a wizard (except instead of a spellbook, it has a bunch of bones that it uses as foci), and it needs bones from more powerful creatures to work as foci for more powerful effects. The DCs are also partially determined by the HD of the bones used. Sound about right?

All correct so far. BTW, you'll notice a few of the prestige classes say thing likes "two feats here", so, if there's one or two that interest you, we can stick our designer hats on and get those in place.

[phaedrusxy]

So it looks like it uses a power point system like a Psion, "learns" powers kind of like a wizard (except instead of a spellbook, it has a bunch of bones that it uses as foci), and it needs bones from more powerful creatures to work as foci for more powerful effects. The DCs are also partially determined by the HD of the bones used. Sound about right?

All correct so far. BTW, you'll notice a few of the prestige classes say thing likes "two feats here", so, if there's one or two that interest you, we can stick our designer hats on and get those in place.

Hadn't even looked at them yet, nor looked over the spell list.

Edit: I find it very odd that you have Animate Dead as a 4th level spell, higher than what a cleric/archivist gets it. Were you splitting the difference between wizard and cleric access?


Edit2: I think I'll just go ahead and go with my initial idea of a zombie crusader. I don't have the time/energy to make and play another spellcaster. Here is a draft.

Edit3: Also, let me pimp some of my own homebrew while I'm at it. Bearer of Legend lets you have a powerful cohort that takes the form of a magic item. So if you want to play a "mundane" beatstick, but still have fancy buffs (without having to mess around RPing two characters), this is a good class.

And my Mind Pirate spellthief derivative seems like it might be pretty fitting for this game. It seems like it would mesh pretty well with an (undead) aboleth.

[phaedrusxy]

OK... that's enough edits... Time for a new post! I've been looking at alternative (homebrewed) disciplines to use with my zombie crusader, and these all seem interesting. I'm leaning towards picking up Infernal Monster and Crimson Earth especially, and go with the "rampaging beast" theme. I especially like that Infernal Monster gives rage-like effects that don't boost Con, and that World-Breaker Grip lets you use a grappled foe as a weapon. 

Discplines I'm considering:Crimson Earth, Raging Dragon, and Infernal Monster!!

[oslecamo]

Expressing interest in playing a Bloodhulk.

If not appropriate, how about a Mummy?

[Nanshork]

If I play I'll want to be a ritual user, but I think you already knew that.

[Stratovarius]

Expressing interest in playing a Bloodhulk.

If not appropriate, how about a Mummy?

Most of the Bloodhulk looks okay. Not Going Down So Easily, on the other hand, looks wildly broken. It's an auto-succeed on any spell/ability that might be really dangerous. And the drawback really isn't one if the party has any kind of persistent healing.

If I play I'll want to be a ritual user, but I think you already knew that.

I did sort of expect that. Although I think you're pretty much on track to end up as the Co-DM

OK... that's enough edits... Time for a new post! I've been looking at alternative (homebrewed) disciplines to use with my zombie crusader, and these all seem interesting. I'm leaning towards picking up Infernal Monster and Crimson Earth especially, and go with the "rampaging beast" theme. I especially like that Infernal Monster gives rage-like effects that don't boost Con, and that World-Breaker Grip lets you use a grappled foe as a weapon. 

Discplines I'm considering:Crimson Earth, Raging Dragon, and Infernal Monster!!

You missed an edit

And yes, Animate Dead was a split the difference. Osteomancy is more "shaman dancing with bones and fetishes" than "undead casting".

Haven't had a chance to look over the disciplines yet, though.


So, I'm seeing a Bloodhulk (beat stick), Crusader Zombie (beat stick), Ghost Bard (Skills, buffs), and two undetermined (Risada, Ketaro). One thing to note is that there will be a fair amount of wilderness/finding the path, certainly in the tunnels and possibly once the party comes out of them, depending on which way they go. I'm also not (yet) seeing much in the way of healing. Not saying all the roles have to be filled, just pointing it out.

[Nanshork]

If I play I'll want to be a ritual user, but I think you already knew that.

I did sort of expect that. Although I think you're pretty much on track to end up as the Co-DM

I can live with that. 

[oslecamo]

Expressing interest in playing a Bloodhulk.

If not appropriate, how about a Mummy?

Most of the Bloodhulk looks okay. Not Going Down So Easily, on the other hand, looks wildly broken. It's an auto-succeed on any spell/ability that might be really dangerous. And the drawback really isn't one if the party has any kind of persistent healing.

To be anything close to an auto-succeed i would need to sacrifice around 50 HP for a +10 bonus. And persistent healing won't help me much during combat. Sure, I may have made that save, but now I'm such at low HP that even a puny magic missile may finish me for good. It's certainly not something I can afford to spam every round of the same battle.

Contrast with the Diamond Mind counters that allow you to use Concentration for saves. Since skills scale up faster than any DC, and don't fail on a natural 1, those are actually auto-succeeds, and they don't cost HP at all.

I'm also not (yet) seeing much in the way of healing. Not saying all the roles have to be filled, just pointing it out.

Well, we have to play undeads and only have 3 levels to work with. It's not exactly simple to get healing or utility in there, altough crusader helps.

[Stratovarius]

Expressing interest in playing a Bloodhulk.

If not appropriate, how about a Mummy?

Most of the Bloodhulk looks okay. Not Going Down So Easily, on the other hand, looks wildly broken. It's an auto-succeed on any spell/ability that might be really dangerous. And the drawback really isn't one if the party has any kind of persistent healing.

To be anything close to an auto-succeed i would need to sacrifice around 50 HP for a +10 bonus. And persistent healing won't help me much during combat. Sure, I may have made that save, but now I'm such at low HP that even a puny magic missile may finish me for good. It's certainly not something I can afford to spam every round of the same battle.

Contrast with the Diamond Mind counters that allow you to use Concentration for saves. Since skills scale up faster than any DC, and don't fail on a natural 1, those are actually auto-succeeds, and they don't cost HP at all.

I'm also not (yet) seeing much in the way of healing. Not saying all the roles have to be filled, just pointing it out.

Well, we have to play undeads and only have 3 levels to work with. It's not exactly simple to get healing or utility in there, altough crusader helps.

True, although I'm guessing those Crusader disciplines don't have quite so much party friendly healing as the ToB ones.

And admittedly I was more thinking higher levels, where you could blow off saves with an item of Harm, or something similar. Although, for a mere five HP, you get to auto retry every failed save with a +5 bonus. Which, if you already had a decent chance of succeeding, is immensely powerful. I guess my question is this: is there any material save for which you wouldn't use this ability? Because if the answer is no, then it means something's wrong with the penalty.

Also, throw object doesn't have an entry for a medium sized creature, except when you get it, you're medium sized. Is it only meant to work under the influence of Bulging Gore?

[oslecamo]

And admittedly I was more thinking higher levels, where you could blow off saves with an item of Harm, or something similar. Although, for a mere five HP, you get to auto retry every failed save with a +5 bonus. Which, if you already had a decent chance of succeeding, is immensely powerful.

You must be misreading something. Bloodhulk only gains a +1 bonus on the retry per 5 HP sacrificed.

And it's not every save, it only works 1/round after all.

I guess my question is this: is there any material save for which you wouldn't use this ability? Because if the answer is no, then it means something's wrong with the penalty.

If the effect isn't that dangerous, and there's other enemies that could throw save-or-suck/die effects at me, then I would save up the use.

Also, throw object doesn't have an entry for a medium sized creature, except when you get it, you're medium sized. Is it only meant to work under the influence of Bulging Gore?

Correct.

Anyway, if undead healing and utility is needed, I could go for a Rakshasa, Ak'Chazar Skeleton. That would grab me Lesser Pain wave to heal the party. I'll gain sorceror casting, but it will be pretty delayed. And I won't mind if you forbid me from taking the higher levels from the Raskhasa class if you think they're too strong, I would be fine going for some prc.

[Raineh Daze]

Should I do a ghostly princess? : D

It would provide unlimited healing (much like a dread necromancer) due to negative energy maneuvers.

[phaedrusxy]

Should I do a ghostly princess? : D

It would provide unlimited healing (much like a dread necromancer) due to negative energy maneuvers.

You know... one of us should probably play a dread necromancer.

And yeah... if I go with the homebrew disciplines, I won't be doing much in the way of party healing. (I guess I could keep Devoted Spirit, but it's a bit out of character for where I'm heading with this guy... Maybe I'll pick up one with negative energy effects... Let me look around a bit more. Two of mine are slightly redundant, anyway.).

Edit: Narrow Bridge looks pretty promising.

Edit2: Ooh, I think I like Stygian Nightmare better... except both of these rely on skills/ability scores I wasn't planning to boost... Stygian Nightmare has a 2nd level boost that adds +1d6 negative energy to all of my attacks for a round. That plus Combat Reflexes means I could heal all of you out of combat via silly slap fighting.

Edit3: Ding ding ding! Unquiet Twilight, the necromantic discipline!

[Raineh Daze]

Should I do a ghostly princess? : D

It would provide unlimited healing (much like a dread necromancer) due to negative energy maneuvers.

You know... one of us should probably play a dread necromancer.

And yeah... if I go with the homebrew disciplines, I won't be doing much in the way of party healing. (I guess I could keep Devoted Spirit, but it's a bit out of character for where I'm heading with this guy... Maybe I'll pick up one with negative energy effects... Let me look around a bit more. Two of mine are slightly redundant, anyway.).

A necromancer in a party of undead is like a hunter in a party of wild animals.

[Gazzien]

If there's still a spot, I'll play a Dread Necromancer... maybe base it off of a mummy. shadow, thanks to Osc's new flavor.

"I didn't have any friends... so I'll make some!"

Edit:

Shadow 1
Evolved Undead 1 (Fallen Spawns)
Dread Necromancer 1

Use feats to be really good at making undead, have some buddyfriends to fight for me / act as "hands".

[phaedrusxy]

Use feats to be really good at making undead, have some buddyfriends to fight for me / act as "hands".

Take Fell Animate and you could have actually created me. (Or with a scroll)

[ketaro]

If the Elementalist could also draw spells with energy/elemental descriptors other than those listed, I think I'd rather this. For example, the Wu Jen has [Metal] spells. 
I'd also reflavor the Elemental Form as merely changing the color of my flames (because I'm just a flaming skull ) rather than actually turning into an elemental, but of course still mechanically becoming an elemental. I want to burn with all the colors of the rainbow!

Hrmm. I've always considered that class Tier 2, mostly because it's an amazing blaster, has a wider than expected nine level spell list, and because the class abilities are city destroyers. And make a Warlock wish it could snipe at the same power level.

If you can somehow convince me otherwise, or tune it down, it's yours.

The only class abilities that are near 'mass destruction because I exist' are in the high teens/capstone. Considering I'm likely to want to take the 2nd level of Swarm Shifter to get Consume for some self heal capability, and at least the 2nd level of Flameskull for the fast healing but probably all 4 levels, I'm only getting up to Elementalist 14 before epic levels, if I even survive that long or this game goes that far.

As well, with Flameskull levels stacking with Elementalist IF I take all four levels of the race, I'd be 18th CL and have access to 9th level spells, but I would only have the spell slots of a 14th level Elementalist which means I'd not have any 8th or 9th level spells per day unless I get my Charisma up high enough to gain bonus spells per day for those spell levels. And until I do take that 4th level of Flameskull, I'll be like at least 3-5 caster levels behind a normal progression 

Also I like to try to build things more thematically than mechanically. I try to use my optimization knowledge simply to make a ceiling for which to not try to hit my head on.

I mean, the entire concept of wanting to be a Flameskull Elementalist is because I want to be able to change the color of my flames to all the colors of the rainbow 
And Swarm Shifter is purely because I want the Dust to Dust ability of the Tomb Dust Swarm so I can just cling to some one else in the party and be completely invisible to everything and make them just be a dusty old corpse for extra decrepit undead effect!