Author Topic: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D  (Read 45269 times)

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2014, 08:42:12 PM »
It wasn't a self-promotion. Saruman's moving beyond White was a self-promotion. Gandalf got sent back by God.

... think it was Eru Iluvatar that sent him back.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2014, 08:54:03 PM »
It wasn't a self-promotion. Saruman's moving beyond White was a self-promotion. Gandalf got sent back by God.
Oh, right.

Didn't read half of them and from what I've heard, didn't miss that much.
* Seeker of Truth is a 12 book series adapted into a two season TV series. Not goina lie, loved the series even through it didn't exactly stick with the book.
* The Wheel of Time on the other hand is a 14 book like excellent series that recently ended and took like the last 15 years to write.
* The Obsidian Trilogy (one I was trying to get the name of) is also pretty good for as far as I went and wrote by Mercedes Lackey. Better known for her Heralds of Vadamir series which includes 27 books plus the newest set.
* Dragon Prince (and dragon star) are a six book series by Melanie Rawn. They have a very unique form of magic called sunrunning and stone burners. I liked the concepts.
* The Dark Sun, well I'm sure I got the name wrong. It's not the D&D setting for one thing.
* Harry Potter vs Shotgun is an example that shocases how badly the books were wrote out. If Rowling wasn't actively trying to protray the entire Wizard world as a bunch of incompetent morons what's his name would have walked into a police station military base and instantly dominated every single one of the people inside. Because obviously, the killing curse f'ing fails on everyone who loves their children. >.<
* Eragon, well people liked it. Concept, nothing new. Story & writing? Yeach I'm going to go with never read this thing. The movie was better, and it flopped.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2014, 09:32:41 PM »
* Eragon, well people liked it. Concept, nothing new. Story & writing? Yeach I'm going to go with never read this thing. The movie was better, and it flopped.
Disagreeing with you there. (Also, how do you know? You never read it...)

First book was alright, good for a first major publication; second got a bit better, third and fourth got a bit power-inflated. -shrug- I still like them - not the best books I own, but enough to hold a spot on the bookshelves while other stuff comes and goes.

ANYHOW, as my contribution to the thread: Fact that magic items required stats in older editions was interesting to me, I liked that (unpopular opinion?). Seemed like a way to make sure that the items were just making a wielder stronger, not just "oh who cares that you're pitiful, some magic and BLAM you win everything".

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2014, 09:57:47 PM »
* Eragon, well people liked it. Concept, nothing new. Story & writing? Yeach I'm going to go with never read this thing. The movie was better, and it flopped.
Disagreeing with you there. (Also, how do you know? You never read it...)

First book was alright, good for a first major publication; second got a bit better, third and fourth got a bit power-inflated. -shrug- I still like them - not the best books I own, but enough to hold a spot on the bookshelves while other stuff comes and goes.

I still need to read the fourth one (despite having had it since it came out...). Honestly found the second the most boring from a story perspective, but I guess it did better for world building.

And the covers are nice.

And the movie was, uh... bad. Really, really bad.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2014, 10:17:07 PM »
* Eragon, well people liked it. Concept, nothing new. Story & writing? Yeach I'm going to go with never read this thing. The movie was better, and it flopped.
Disagreeing with you there. (Also, how do you know? You never read it...)

First book was alright, good for a first major publication; second got a bit better, third and fourth got a bit power-inflated. -shrug- I still like them - not the best books I own, but enough to hold a spot on the bookshelves while other stuff comes and goes.

I still need to read the fourth one (despite having had it since it came out...). Honestly found the second the most boring from a story perspective, but I guess it did better for world building.

And the covers are nice.

And the movie was, uh... bad. Really, really bad.
I guess that's true. I liked Roran's bit a lot, so I guess I'm biased xD Stronghammer, ahahaha.

Saw the movie ads. "Well... it can't be that bad. I mean, the dragon looked good." Saw the movie. "Why did Durza have a shadow-dragon. What was that. Dear god, why. That was... augh."

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2014, 11:23:55 PM »
* Eragon, well people liked it. Concept, nothing new. Story & writing? Yeach I'm going to go with never read this thing. The movie was better, and it flopped.
Disagreeing with you there. (Also, how do you know? You never read it...)

First book was alright, good for a first major publication; second got a bit better, third and fourth got a bit power-inflated. -shrug- I still like them - not the best books I own, but enough to hold a spot on the bookshelves while other stuff comes and goes.

I still need to read the fourth one (despite having had it since it came out...). Honestly found the second the most boring from a story perspective, but I guess it did better for world building.

And the covers are nice.

And the movie was, uh... bad. Really, really bad.
I guess that's true. I liked Roran's bit a lot, so I guess I'm biased xD Stronghammer, ahahaha.

Saw the movie ads. "Well... it can't be that bad. I mean, the dragon looked good." Saw the movie. "Why did Durza have a shadow-dragon. What was that. Dear god, why. That was... augh."

Imagine how bad the DS game of it was!

Offline Hades

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2014, 08:38:02 AM »
Only thing that I liked about Durza in Eragron (movie) is that he looked like Dani Filth XD

At least in the Italian version, Saphira's voice imho was AWFUL for a dragon! (not that the voice was bad in itself, but imho was totally not the right voice for a dragon)

Offline Keldar

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2014, 08:41:39 AM »
Hercules and Paul Bunyan rewrote geography using the power of Muscle!  Lets see some magic man try that!   ;) 

The problem with Fighters in D&D and its ilk, is that you aren't playing Hercules.  You aren't even playing Aeolis, you're stuck with Salmonius.  Because the game designers are generally terrified of letting anyone do anything awesome at will.  And not letting fighty types do whatever at will, you wind up with 4e where they inexplicably can only do awesome things once a day.  Which just feels weird as heck.  But at least that Fighter didn't suck out loud.

I do think that in games of broad power scope, at the high end the mundane character simply shouldn't exist.  Everyone should be doing crazy shit, even Batman can breathe in space!  :tongue  In most mythologies, magic is simply part of the rules of the world.  Magicians know the rules better than others, they don't have special talents that allow only them to tap into magic.  In many tales the mundane hero can take advantage of the rules of magic to at least defend himself.  In D&D not so much.  Iron really doesn't bother fae, salt doesn't keep spirits at bay, vampires never have consistent rules for staking them, four leaf clovers hold no luck, and no one can ward off the evil eye.  To everyone's detriment.

(And of course Gandalf had to fight the Balor, he had the only Ring of Fire Elemental Command!   :smirk)

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2014, 08:48:41 AM »
You'd really have to make something like the Spellbreaker part of every mundane, as a counter to magic in a high valid setting. In fact... I wonder if gluing that onto the fighter chassis would improve the balance at all...

I shall go try.

Edit: And done. The Spellbreaker. A (hopefully) not sucky mundane.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 09:36:24 AM by Stratovarius »

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2014, 10:21:20 AM »
In most mythologies, magic is simply part of the rules of the world.  Magicians know the rules better than others, they don't have special talents that allow only them to tap into magic.  In many tales the mundane hero can take advantage of the rules of magic to at least defend himself.  In D&D not so much.  Iron really doesn't bother fae, salt doesn't keep spirits at bay, vampires never have consistent rules for staking them, four leaf clovers hold no luck, and no one can ward off the evil eye.  To everyone's detriment.

(And of course Gandalf had to fight the Balor, he had the only Ring of Fire Elemental Command!   :smirk)
This is a really good point.  The "mundane" label is pretty much a charopp label, and a D&D-specific one at that.  Siegfried is just some guy with a sword, but he bathes in the blood of a dragon and that grants him further abilities. 

I'm not even sure what the argument is about at this point.  Although, with regards to Tolkien, it's not necessarily wizards uber alles.  Glaurung, Sauron, and Morgoth are killed, defeated, and crippled respectively by dudes with swords.


P.S.:  this is just an off-hand observation, but I suspect magic's awesomeness in a narrative is directly proportional to the amount of main characters who are practitioners of it.  E.g., Dresden Files and Sword of Truth, magic is tremendously awesome.  Conan, Drizzt, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, less so.  Elric and Covenant might be worthwhile counterexamples, though their magic is both dangerous and awesome, though in Covenant the "mundanes" are rarely overshadowed that much. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 10:26:37 AM by Unbeliever »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2014, 11:47:59 AM »
Disagreeing with you there. (Also, how do you know? You never read it...)
How do you know what I've read or not?

No, the movie is better. You don't get descriptive text like stringing his bow after he sees the deer or every ten minutes, the author describing the dragon egg as "frictionless", how Eragon should not be able to scry the prison, Eragon crying for the twenty time, Eragon getting pissed they cannot catch up to the maggot people (missing context: stop stopping for sword training then). Eragon's Twilight level stalker fetish gets reconned into save the princess, how those mountain people hate dragon riders and never had one visit so they totally have a landing pad, dragon room, and armorsmiths (wait, that made it into the movie). We also have no subtext of time and expect break out actors to look dolled up so we missed how MsGruffin was tortured for days without even getting dirty. Hell at one point a guy on the ground punches Eragon off a horse, in the face. The move polity dropped that scene rather than trying to find a fourteen foot tall actor.

This is a really good point.  The "mundane" label is pretty much a charopp label, and a D&D-specific one at that.  Siegfried is just some guy with a sword, but he bathes in the blood of a dragon and that grants him further abilities.
Indeed. Hercules? God-Powered Strength. Achilles? (nearly) Invincible badass. Perseus? Zeus's Adamantine sword, Hermes's flying sandals, Hades's helm of invisibility, Athena's mirror shield, hell Hesperides even gave him a bag of holding.

There's also the elephant in the room. Naysayers only want to talk about the past, because current has things like mutants, aliens, comic books, and the avengers. Batman and Ironman are as "mundane" as superheroes go. And they are super athletic geniuses with the super power of infinite money.

You're not a hero without having or obtaining magical powers unless you're decked out in enough magical/technological items to make up for it. Of course D&D's Fighter would suck balls. He's only there for an underdog story.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2014, 12:13:07 PM »
You'd really have to make something like the Spellbreaker part of every mundane, as a counter to magic in a high valid setting. In fact... I wonder if gluing that onto the fighter chassis would improve the balance at all...

I shall go try.

Edit: And done. The Spellbreaker. A (hopefully) not sucky mundane.
Why not just give it the Mage Slayer / PMP/ PMC line as bonus feats, instead of writing them over into the class? Also, it gains Improved Evasion without ever having Evasion - I think that's breaking the normal way such things are done, no?

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2014, 12:18:19 PM »
...
There's also the elephant in the room. Naysayers only want to talk about the past, because current has things like mutants, aliens, comic books, and the avengers. Batman and Ironman are as "mundane" as superheroes go. And they are super athletic geniuses with the super power of infinite money.
Not sure what you mean by this, can you say more? 

It's hard to think of any superhero as "mundane."  Kind of by definition they aren't.  On some sliding scale I guess Batman -- and the Question or the Punisher may be better examples -- are more "mundane" than, say, Black Adam.  But, I don't really see what's supposed to be inferred from that.

You're not a hero without having or obtaining magical powers unless you're decked out in enough magical/technological items to make up for it. Of course D&D's Fighter would suck balls. He's only there for an underdog story.
Is this a statement about current literature/storytelling or like a necessity statement about the nature of heroism? 

I think I read it as the latter the first time, which might be totally off-base.  As an obvious set of counterexamples sprang to mind:  Conan, Fafhrd, Bannor of the Blood Guard, Solomon Kane, debateably Corwyn and Benedict of Amber. 

And, then it occured to me that all these examples are kind of well, old ones. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:21:41 PM by Unbeliever »

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2014, 12:20:06 PM »
You'd really have to make something like the Spellbreaker part of every mundane, as a counter to magic in a high valid setting. In fact... I wonder if gluing that onto the fighter chassis would improve the balance at all...

I shall go try.

Edit: And done. The Spellbreaker. A (hopefully) not sucky mundane.
Why not just give it the Mage Slayer / PMP/ PMC line as bonus feats, instead of writing them over into the class? Also, it gains Improved Evasion without ever having Evasion - I think that's breaking the normal way such things are done, no?

Probably should stick comments on it over in the other thread, to avoid cluttering this one. I'll respond over there.

Indeed. Hercules? God-Powered Strength. Achilles? (nearly) Invincible badass. Perseus? Zeus's Adamantine sword, Hermes's flying sandals, Hades's helm of invisibility, Athena's mirror shield, hell Hesperides even gave him a bag of holding.

There's also the elephant in the room. Naysayers only want to talk about the past, because current has things like mutants, aliens, comic books, and the avengers. Batman and Ironman are as "mundane" as superheroes go. And they are super athletic geniuses with the super power of infinite money.

You're not a hero without having or obtaining magical powers unless you're decked out in enough magical/technological items to make up for it. Of course D&D's Fighter would suck balls. He's only there for an underdog story.

On this front, where do the Norse myth heroes get their powers from? Sigurd, Beowolf, etc? Because I don't recall too much that wasn't mundane in the case of Beowulf, at least.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2014, 12:22:00 PM »
* Harry Potter vs Shotgun is an example that shocases how badly the books were wrote out. If Rowling wasn't actively trying to protray the entire Wizard world as a bunch of incompetent morons what's his name would have walked into a police station military base and instantly dominated every single one of the people inside. Because obviously, the killing curse f'ing fails on everyone who loves their children. >.<
Well, to be fair, Voldemort being an incompetent moron is a key part of the plot. Because even incompetent morons can still be pretty dangerous when they have power and talent at their disposal.

Asking why Voldermort doesn't mindcontrol muggle military is completely missing the point of the series. Voldermort is a wizard that believes magic>>>>>everything else and wants to prove he's superior to everybody else, so he'll never resort to muggle technology. He keeps insisting on trying to kill Harry with a spell that already failed half a dozen times because he refuses to admit he was wrong to the very end (to the point of forbidding his own minions from trying to acomplish the deed by other means).Voldermort's clearly not sane, but insanity and insane leaders are quite real things, and you can't blame J.K Rowlings for portraying a dangerous self-destructive madman as a dangerous self-destructive madman.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2014, 12:28:20 PM »
* Harry Potter vs Shotgun is an example that shocases how badly the books were wrote out. If Rowling wasn't actively trying to protray the entire Wizard world as a bunch of incompetent morons what's his name would have walked into a police station military base and instantly dominated every single one of the people inside. Because obviously, the killing curse f'ing fails on everyone who loves their children. >.<
Well, to be fair, Voldemort being an incompetent moron is a key part of the plot. Because even incompetent morons can still be pretty dangerous when they have power and talent at their disposal.

Asking why Voldermort doesn't mindcontrol muggle military is completely missing the point of the series. Voldermort is a wizard that believes magic>>>>>everything else and wants to prove he's superior to everybody else, so he'll never resort to muggle technology. He keeps insisting on trying to kill Harry with a spell that already failed half a dozen times because he refuses to admit he was wrong to the very end (to the point of forbidding his own minions from trying to acomplish the deed by other means).Voldermort's clearly not sane, but insanity and insane leaders are quite real things, and you can't blame J.K Rowlings for portraying a dangerous self-destructive madman as a dangerous self-destructive madman.

Well, he was pretty sane up until 16ish.

Sticking bits of your soul in different items probably isn't the most coherent idea.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2014, 03:56:10 PM »
On this front, where do the Norse myth heroes get their powers from? Sigurd, Beowolf, etc? Because I don't recall too much that wasn't mundane in the case of Beowulf, at least.
Depends on the incarnation? Overall, it's a story about a stupid headstrong prince himself by launching head first at impossible odds and eventually he dies.

The original is broken down to three parts, Grendel a sword-immune troll-like creature Beowulf get's into a wrestling match with and rips the guy's arm off. Grendel's mother whom neither her nor Beowulf could injury each other due to their armor which led to her dragging him underwater and then for some dumb reason bringing him to her treasure filler lair, Beowulf steals a magical sword and wins. Third part is Beowulf vs a dragon and he loses, his two partners kill the dragon and bury him.

In case you missed things in how I tell it. The poem of Beowulf to me has nothing to do with heroism. Grendal is a euphemism for tactics overcoming swords. The mother a lesson of if equal combatants meet, the lucky one wins. And no matter how great you think you are, it's the men behind you that lead to success. It's likely this duality of childish-hero older-wisdom created several debates which led to it's popularity.

Offline MeanFightingGuy

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2014, 05:52:21 PM »
Looks like you took the TL;DR route. Post #2 starts yapping about his theories about Gandalf not having any magical powers and neither did Merlin and you stopped there.

Can't deny that I didn't read the whole page - didn't even read the whole of post#2, though I considered the guy had a point insofar as Gandalf does indeed work mostly by more or less mundane means (diplomacy, gather knowledge, forge alliances etc. pp.) which, when I read the book for the first time, made me indeed wonder what good his casting abilities actually are (back then, I played a RPG with more modest but still influental magic and somehow would have expected more from THE archetypical wizard). Of course the reason is that a Wizard with unchecked powers has "Deus Ex Machina" written all over him and would kill any story he's in, and even with his limited powers (f.ex. no teleport, no flying, to walking through walls...), he's still absent most of the time in TH and lots of time in LOTR to preserve drama.

But, even with all his displays of power you quoted, some things still stand concerning Gandalf's power in particular and magic in Middle Earth in general:
- Gandalf is still a demigod and even considering he got hit by the nerfbat as he was sent to Middle Earth, he's still a thousand years old by the time of LOTR and one of the most powerful beings in the story (him, Saruman, probably Radagast, Galadriel, Elrond, Sauron, the Balrogs, Smaug, the Witch King - none of them being mundane beings)
- apart from defeating other Maiar, he still is fairly conservative with his power compared to magic-heavy settings. He uses fewer spells onscreen over 2 years than casters in D&D in a single adventure - hell, even with all his spells, he fails to open that door. Would you expect that to happen to a Wizard 15/Archmage 10/Maiar 10/Chosen of Manwe 10? (yes, I made that combo up)
- In fact, there isn't even much magic going around in the world anyway, and when it is, it's usually pretty ill-defined. Saruman does some stuff where you have a clear effect, and so does Luthién (breaking free of her father's imprisonment, morphing into a vampire, dancing Satan to sleep etc.). Others apparently are limited to their dominion when exerting their powers (Melian, Galadriel, Elrond etc.) or combine it with their craft (Feanor, Celebrimbor etc.). And even some of these prefer swords over spells when they get into a fight. And *none* of them are mere mortals.
- And, as Unbeliever says, some equally impressive feats are accomplished by fighter types using their swords, even though most of them are Eldar as well (okay, Tûrin was totally mortal and still badass).

Let me ask you: Would you play a Wizard in a setting were your power was limited to a certain location, bound to a specific artifact, or depending on you being either of divine blood and a couple of thousand years old to boot? It's not that "fighters can't have nice things" in Middle Earth, it's more that spellcasters are some kind of obscure prestige class with the prerequisite "Race: Maiar or Eldar" and half a dozen others tagged on it.


Seeker of Truth is a 12 book series adapted into a two season TV series. Not goina lie, loved the series even through it didn't exactly stick with the book.
* The Wheel of Time on the other hand is a 14 book like excellent series that recently ended and took like the last 15 years to write. [...] * Harry Potter vs Shotgun is an example that shocases how badly the books were wrote out. If Rowling wasn't actively trying to protray the entire Wizard world as a bunch of incompetent morons what's his name would have walked into a police station military base and instantly dominated every single one of the people inside. Because obviously, the killing curse f'ing fails on everyone who loves their children. >.< 

Just quoting the stuff I can comment on:
- I've only heard that Terry Goodkind mainly uses his series to promote Objectivism and writes some pretty objectionable (no pun intended) stuff on top of that (okay, so do others). Still, not really interested.
- read TWOT until... book 5? Dunno (was a translation where the novels got split into ever-shortening books). I liked it in the beginning, but at some point it got repetitive watching epic level ta'veren and bazillions of Aes Sedai (each one new more coincidentally with some never before discovered power greater than before etc.) getting into fights with consecutively stronger shadowspawn or losing track of backup characters. And it wasn't even terribly well written imho. And the guy shouldn't have had protection from editors.
- Harry Potter I really liked, at least until book 4. Then my suspension of disbelief snapped because retarded decisions started piling up and the suspense from earlier books got taken out. Oh, and the Wizard Nazis were a pretty dumb plot device.

But to be honest, I stopped reading fantasy (apart from a few choice series) some time ago (I avoid series that are tied to an existing franchise (SW:EU or all other RPG novels) for quality reasons as well as infinitly long series) What I appreciate is pretty much everything from Tolkien, I like Dune, The Neverending Story, A Song of Fire and Ice, Howard's Conan, H.P. Lovecraft, and finally Harry Potter for the most part. Mythology is usually pretty cool, but I prefer a coherent story framework instead of the at times erratic retellings I am used from, say, Norse song epics.

Personally, I think that from all of the above, Conan handled spellcasting best (at least for RPG purposes). It isn't as inaccessible as in Tolkien's mythology, not as omnipresent as in HP, not as rare as in ASOIAF, but even with all the cool stuff it can do it doesn't reduce the mundanes to mere background characters and glorified henchmen.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 05:55:21 PM by MeanFightingGuy »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2014, 05:57:57 PM »
- In fact, there isn't even much magic going around in the world anyway, and when it is, it's usually pretty ill-defined. Saruman does some stuff where you have a clear effect, and so does Luthién (breaking free of her father's imprisonment, morphing into a vampire, dancing Satan to sleep etc.). Others apparently are limited to their dominion when exerting their powers (Melian, Galadriel, Elrond etc.) or combine it with their craft (Feanor, Celebrimbor etc.). And even some of these prefer swords over spells when they get into a fight. And *none* of them are mere mortals.p

Feanor is a bad example. He's basically 'has he tried to do it? Yes? Then he's probably done it'. All of the Balrogs couldn't kill him fast enough to prevent one last speech. Arrogant bastard.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Cool shit the Fighter could do in old school D&D
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2014, 07:15:37 PM »
1. hell, even with all his spells, he fails to open that door.
2. Would you expect that to happen to a Wizard 15/Archmage 10/Maiar 10/Chosen of Manwe 10? (yes, I made that combo up)
3. Luthién (breaking free of her father's imprisonment, morphing into a vampire, dancing Satan to sleep etc.). Others apparently are limited to their dominion when exerting their powers (Melian, Galadriel, Elrond etc.) or combine it with their craft (Feanor, Celebrimbor etc.).
4. Let me ask you: Would you play a Wizard in a setting were your power was limited to a certain location, bound to a specific artifact, or depending on you being either of divine blood and a couple of thousand years old to boot?
5. It's not that "fighters can't have nice things" in Middle Earth
1. You mean that Elvencrafted magical door warded against trespassers to the Dwarven underground kingdom?
2. Gandalf is clearly a gish, not an Archmage. He gave up caster levels to swing that sword. Just saying.
3. You activated my trap card! Wait, no, you used my trap card. Yeah, here we are hung up on Gandalf, literately one of the weakest spellcasters in lotrs, and he was still thrown off a cliff so Tolken would write a book that wasn't based on sorcery.
4. You mean Wizards & Sorcerers? It's why charop says copy your book, that way you're not dependent on a unique item. ;)
5. It's that "Fighters are comic relief". I know right? Gimli is played for laughs as he tries to keep up with the magical elf sword-archer (who uses a magical bow, how is it magical? Elven hair. Yeah that's a thing), the hot chick gets to sexism pun, and just try reading The Hobbit some time. You get like 12 bumbling idiots being baby sat by the spellcaster. Of course, not all of them drew the cool straw, Boromir dies, the two mundane Halfings get captured and presumed dead, and I'm pretty sure Sam is a cohort.

All well, not everyone can be a rogue decked out in magical gear or turn out to have Jesus Lay-On-Hands powers right?

I've only heard that Terry Goodkind mainly uses his series to promote Objectivism and writes some pretty objectionable (no pun intended) stuff on top of that (okay, so do others). Still, not really interested.
Oh it's not that bad. Try bigning (sp) the series on Netflix over a weekend.

- read TWOT until... book 5? Dunno (was a translation where the novels got split into ever-shortening books). I liked it in the beginning, but at some point it got repetitive ... And it wasn't even terribly well written imho.
TWOT's biggest flaw is the lack of editors. It needs condense into 6 books or so, I mean by book 9 you have 400 pages of bullshit followed by Egwane being captured. And I'm pretty sure Perrin spends five books wondering how to free Fail. >.<

Anyway, I still recommend it.
- Harry Potter I really liked, at least until book 4. Then my suspension of disbelief snapped because retarded decisions started piling up and the suspense from earlier books got taken out. Oh, and the Wizard Nazis were a pretty dumb plot device.
Take the time and read this. I think you'll enjoy it. :)

Personally, I think that from all of the above, Conan handled spellcasting best (at least for RPG purposes).
Not familiar with Conan beyond Schwarzenegger's film, and even that barely. Quick glance at Wikipedia and he does look like a real pure Fighter in a sword & sorcery setting. Off that alone, it appears to be a series where a Fighter didn't get the short stick. So good find there.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:18:27 PM by SorO_Lost »