Author Topic: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?  (Read 5733 times)

Offline Kasz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • The God-Emperor protects, the Omnissiah provides.
    • View Profile
Okay, I want to create a Combat Pragmatist (TV Tropes Link, enter at your own peril).

The general idea is fighting dirty, mud in the eyes, boot to the groin...

I'm not sure how this translates into D&D if at all... I know eggshell grenades are a solid "dirt in the eyes" item, Making your opponents flatfooted and sneak attacking is a solid dirty tactic. Trip attacks, Flanking, summoning a monster to help you flank...

I think you'd want a mix of spells and sneak attack, definately craft: alchemy.

Any ideas for making an opponent who could fight dirty enough to challenge a party?

Tactics being lifted from the combat pragmatist TVTrope as well, because there's some awesome ideas in there.

Although this link is a massive disappointment.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 10:41:36 AM by Kasz »

Offline Hades

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Stop Time, Thou art so beautiful!
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 11:31:45 AM »
Feinting can be easilly refluffed as "dirty fighting".

That can be combined with the Ambush Feats in Complete Scoundrel and Drow of the Underdark, to add some effects to the sneak attack (that we can deliver even in an open 1 vs 1 battle due to feinting).

For example Sickening Strike can be used to replicate a "called shot to the nuts" ;)

Offline FlaminCows

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • Push that button. Doo eeet.
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 11:40:11 AM »
Dragon Magazine #331 has rules for how you can use typical adventuring gear in different ways, especially as traps. Digging a pit and covering it with your blanket, some dirt and sticks makes for a quick pit trap. A bottle can be shattered over a square to act like caltops. Oil can be poured over an area to make it slippery, and then later lit on fire. A rope could be made into a trip line.

From the Arms and Equipment Guide, there is the long-time classic game of "marbles". Pour marbles over an area and everybody must make balance checks.

Herein is wisdom: fill a bottle with marbles and oil, cork it, and keep it around. If combat begins, hold an action. Taunt Goofus, insult Goofus's mother, threaten his children. When Goofus decides to charge at you, toss a bottle in his way. The marbles make him make balance checks, the oil makes the balance checks harder, the broken glass cuts his feet and he can't stop his momentum. When he falls into the oil and the glass, light him on fire.

Offline Prime32

  • Over-Underling
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 2914
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 01:18:31 PM »
Stone Dragon and Shadow Hand maneuvers, for debuffing and striking at weak points? Dungeoncrasher is more brutal than pragmatic, but might still fit the bill.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4243
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 07:37:57 PM »
Fighting dirty?

Dirty Fighting!  :lmao

Offline Kasz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • The God-Emperor protects, the Omnissiah provides.
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 06:14:24 AM »
Fighting dirty?

Dirty Fighting!  :lmao

Yeah, I linked that in the original post... it's terrible.


Okay, so you generally want to Win whatever fight you're in, I remember a thread before that compared like Honour and Pragmatism and whatnot. Fighting to survival vs Fighting for sport.

So, general ideas.

Act First:

‘Hit the other fellow as quick as you can and as hard as you can, where it hurts him most, when he ain’t looking.’
—Field Marshal William Slim,

So whether it's ambushing, hiding or just straight out sucker punching, you want to act first.
Ways to act first:
Hide - Shadows or invisibility
Trickery - Illusions or disguises
Winning Initiative

Traps & Poison

They're not fair, but they're effective.
Weapon capsule retainer and triple weapon capsule retainer is a solid way to utilise poisons quickly and with minimal investment.
A wand of Create Trap is a solid method of making a trap in 6 seconds flat.
Otherwise carry tools of the trade, like Shovels, Fishing Line, Nets, Metal hinges/loops and Rope.

Ways to deny your opponents actions

An opponent who cannot act, cannot defend himself effectively.
Stunning, Dazing, Nauseating, Helpless, Cowering, Bestow curse


Ways to render your opponent flat footed

Blinded, Cannot see the attacker, Cowering, Surprise Round/Not acted yet, Climbing, Balancing, grappling, Stunned, Helpless, Feinting


A Scoundrel's backpack, items that render opponents less able to defend themselves

Marbles
Poisons

Potion Belt, Scrollcase, Handy Haversack - getting items as a move action or free action is important.

Macgyverisms:

Glass Bottle of Marbles and Oil: This is oil, marbles and "caltrops" in one. It's hard to balance on marbles, let alone oil slicked marbles. Caltrops lower the enemies speed in the future as long as their footwear doesn't render them immune. Once they're on the floor, set the oil on fire.

Feats
Ambush Feats

Skill tricks
Acrobatic Backstab
Conceal Spellcasting
Hidden Blade
Mosquito's Bite
Spot the Weak Point
Sudden Draw
Timely Misdirection


Stances
Assassin's Stance

Maneuvers
Drain Vitality



Could put something like this together for a handbook maybe.
Combat Pragmatism; (or how I learned to stop making boring attack actions & Love the Throat Punch)

Offline xzyx

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Fighting Dirty? Tactics / Mechanics question for a Combat Pragmatist?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 01:21:03 PM »
Fighting dirty?

Dirty Fighting!  :lmao

Yeah, I linked that in the original post... it's terrible.


Okay, so you generally want to Win whatever fight you're in, I remember a thread before that compared like Honour and Pragmatism and whatnot. Fighting to survival vs Fighting for sport.

So, general ideas.

Act First:

‘Hit the other fellow as quick as you can and as hard as you can, where it hurts him most, when he ain’t looking.’
—Field Marshal William Slim,

So whether it's ambushing, hiding or just straight out sucker punching, you want to act first.
Ways to act first:
Hide - Shadows or invisibility
Trickery - Illusions or disguises
Winning Initiative

Traps & Poison

They're not fair, but they're effective.
Weapon capsule retainer and triple weapon capsule retainer is a solid way to utilise poisons quickly and with minimal investment.
A wand of Create Trap is a solid method of making a trap in 6 seconds flat.
Otherwise carry tools of the trade, like Shovels, Fishing Line, Nets, Metal hinges/loops and Rope.

Ways to deny your opponents actions

An opponent who cannot act, cannot defend himself effectively.
Stunning, Dazing, Nauseating, Helpless, Cowering, Bestow curse


Ways to render your opponent flat footed

Blinded, Cannot see the attacker, Cowering, Surprise Round/Not acted yet, Climbing, Balancing, grappling, Stunned, Helpless, Feinting


A Scoundrel's backpack, items that render opponents less able to defend themselves

Marbles
Poisons

Potion Belt, Scrollcase, Handy Haversack - getting items as a move action or free action is important.

Macgyverisms:

Glass Bottle of Marbles and Oil: This is oil, marbles and "caltrops" in one. It's hard to balance on marbles, let alone oil slicked marbles. Caltrops lower the enemies speed in the future as long as their footwear doesn't render them immune. Once they're on the floor, set the oil on fire.

Feats
Ambush Feats

Skill tricks
Acrobatic Backstab
Conceal Spellcasting
Hidden Blade
Mosquito's Bite
Spot the Weak Point
Sudden Draw
Timely Misdirection


Stances
Assassin's Stance

Maneuvers
Drain Vitality



Could put something like this together for a handbook maybe.
Combat Pragmatism; (or how I learned to stop making boring attack actions & Love the Throat Punch)

Please do it! I'm currently playing a character who would love it.

Good places to look for material are the Complete Mcgyver, and there's also the Dirty Trick maneuver in Pathfinder (which can probably be inserted in D&D 3.5 with minimal DM complaint).