[D&D 3.5e] Imbuing a enchantment that costs +2 with a level 1 Kensai?

[sicnarf]

Hello guys!

According to the Kensai section of the Complete Warrior book (Page 49), a Kensai can inbue his Signature Weapon by meditating for 24 hours and spending the required amount of experience per weapon special abilities. The number of enchantment that a Kensai can place upon his weapon is limited at one by class level.

Here's the question:
Can a level 1 Kensai put the Commanding enchantment on his weapon? Let me explain why this is a question:

The Commanding enchantment gives a +2 enhancement bonus on Diplomacy, Intimidation while sheathed and +4 Intimidation when held or drawn. Additionally, the user can cast Suggestion once per day as a level 7 caster. The COST of that enchant is said to be a +2 bonus. So, to add that enchantment, a PC usually have to pay the Gold necessary for a +2 Bonus (8000 if the weapon wasn't magic to begin with).

Back to the Question:
The Commanding enchantment's price is +2, but does it take "2" slots?
In the case that a weapon can only have a total of like 10 enchantment, would a commanding weapon take two slot and thus a weapon could only be +8 commanding? (I know that maximum enhance is +5)

What it changes is, as a level one, I am allowed to add one enchantment. It doesn't say that it must be a +1 enchantment, nor that I am not allowed to buy stronger enchantment for the correct price (adding Commanding as a level 1 Kensai, I would pay the cost of a +2 Imbue). See, it says that a Kensai can ADD one feature or enhancement per levels, not that he must make his weapon the equivalent of +1 or +2 in gold value.

Hope the question is clear now (Kinda had a hard time explaining it) xD

Best Regards,
Sicnarf.

[kitep]

The commanding enchantment would indeed take 2 slots.

But it's even worse than that.  Before you can add any other magic abilities to a weapon, it must first have a +1 enhancement bonus, ie be a +1 sword.  So first you'd have to spend 1 slot to make it a +1 weapon, then spend 2 more to add commanding, so the earliest you can get it is level 3.

Good luck!

[kitep]

FWIW, having just read the commanding ability, you may be better off getting this on a weapon other than your signature weapon, such as a dagger.  The plusses to skills still work (mostly) even when sheathed, and if you want to cast suggestion, you can always pull it out.  By having it on a side weapon, you free up the +2 equivalent for something you want every time you swing your weapon.

[Raineh Daze]

Or you could just get something which gives a competence bonus to those skills. Much cheaper.

[sicnarf]

FWIW, having just read the commanding ability, you may be better off getting this on a weapon other than your signature weapon, such as a dagger.  The plusses to skills still work (mostly) even when sheathed, and if you want to cast suggestion, you can always pull it out.  By having it on a side weapon, you free up the +2 equivalent for something you want every time you swing your weapon.

That is indeed an extremely bright suggestion Thanks a lot Kitep ^^ I wished for my Nô-Dachi to be extremely impressive for the Role Play value but damage wise I'd be way better with that enchant on like my large Wakisashi

My Nô-Dachi is quite the masterpiece. In short, I could say it is an Ornate (Intimidate), Acid Washed, Resilient, Razor Sharp Large Folded Abyssal BloodIron Nô-Dachi It is not magical and costed me 12700 gold from my starting gold. Story-Wise it is an impressive Katana given to me by my Daimyo, but I had to take it out of my starting money because it is an incredible craftsmanship (Only a blacksmith level 17 could create such a weapon). So story wise, having Commanding on my weapon would have been amazing since it would have been Magically Impressive, giving an aura of nobility and danger.

Or you could just get something which gives a competence bonus to those skills. Much cheaper.

That is true! I must say that I mainly want that enchant because of the Suggestion Spell and the flavor text that it brings to my character "A commanding weapon looks imposing and lends force to the wielder's personality." I play an Intimidation based Samurai-Kensai. So I could have backed up my story and flavor text with an actual magic reason.

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share
I am currently level 6 with a total skill modifier of 17 in Intimidation and 17 in Diplomacy. I plan on getting the Fearsome armor enchant to be able to intimidate as a move action, as well as getting a +5 intimidation bonus.

[kitep]

Have you looked into Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana, p170)?  I've never used it, but it looks perfect for a signature weapon.

[sicnarf]

Have you looked into Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana, p170)?  I've never used it, but it looks perfect for a signature weapon.

Interesting, will give it a look ^^

[altpersona]

you may have trouble stacking kensai abilities and item familar abilities, iirc item familiars have a value window.

if all you want is flavor, the Item Familiar has some nice potential.

[sicnarf]

you may have trouble stacking kensai abilities and item familar abilities, iirc item familiars have a value window.

if all you want is flavor, the Item Familiar has some nice potential.

I already planned role-playing my Hihiirokane (Yes it has a name meaning Blood Red Metal, see Abyssal Bloodiron ) as something I'd never accept to let go or hand over to anyone. A familiar bound could increase that link to a more powerful level and meaning ^^

However, I fear the destroy part if I invest skill points in it and experiences. What happens if it gets destroyed and I use the Kensai's ability to reforge the item? Do the experience and skills points come back or are they still lost?

[Frogman55]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

[sicnarf]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Ahh didn't knew that one could create an intimidation tool Thanks a lot Very interesting stuff!

[Frogman55]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Ahh didn't knew that one could create an intimidation tool Thanks a lot Very interesting stuff!

Yup. Its a clear (but often overlooked) item in the Players Handbook, so its as core as it gets. That being said, about half the DMs I've played with tend to ban some of the more odd forms of skill tools. You could, hypothetically, create a masterwork concentration tool, or listen tool, or iajitsu focus tool. I don't find it particularly difficult to come up with various gear that would always provide various bonuses, but I've found that a surprising number of otherwise reasonable DMs dislike them.

[sicnarf]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Ahh didn't knew that one could create an intimidation tool Thanks a lot Very interesting stuff!

Yup. Its a clear (but often overlooked) item in the Players Handbook, so its as core as it gets. That being said, about half the DMs I've played with tend to ban some of the more odd forms of skill tools. You could, hypothetically, create a masterwork concentration tool, or listen tool, or iajitsu focus tool. I don't find it particularly difficult to come up with various gear that would always provide various bonuses, but I've found that a surprising number of otherwise reasonable DMs dislike them.

What would a Iaijutsu Focus be? *You picked my curiosity, as my DM allows me to use that skill even though I am using the Complete Warrior version of the Samurai*
If I can come up with an item that makes sense, I am sure he wouldn't mind.

[SolEiji]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Ahh didn't knew that one could create an intimidation tool Thanks a lot Very interesting stuff!

Yup. Its a clear (but often overlooked) item in the Players Handbook, so its as core as it gets. That being said, about half the DMs I've played with tend to ban some of the more odd forms of skill tools. You could, hypothetically, create a masterwork concentration tool, or listen tool, or iajitsu focus tool. I don't find it particularly difficult to come up with various gear that would always provide various bonuses, but I've found that a surprising number of otherwise reasonable DMs dislike them.

What would a Iaijutsu Focus be? *You picked my curiosity, as my DM allows me to use that skill even though I am using the Complete Warrior version of the Samurai*
If I can come up with an item that makes sense, I am sure he wouldn't mind.

Its an oiled latch on your sheath for quick, smooth, rapid draws of your weapon.

[Garryl]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Masterwork tools give circumstance bonuses, not competence. Circumstance bonuses are doubly nice because they stack with everything not essentially from the same source.

[Frogman55]

I must say that I am quite interested in hearing what you believe could increase my competences, if you don't mind to share

He's probably referring to masterwork skill tools. For 50gp, you can buy a tool that increases a given skill. Spend 100 gp and get yourself a hat (or mask, or sash, or some other piece of clothing) that gives a +2 competence bonus to diplomacy and intimdate. Heck tack on bluff too for another 50gp. Arguably, if you want a single item to give three bonuses it could cost more, but it still wouldn't be more than 200gp for an item with three skills.

Competence bonuses are fairly common, and don't stack (thieves tools, for example, give competence bonus to open lock and disable device). Whats actually fun - if you have gold to spare the competence bonus from the skill tool will stack with the enhancement bonus. Iirc, a +2 enhancement bonus to a skill is 500gp?

Masterwork tools give circumstance bonuses, not competence. Circumstance bonuses are doubly nice because they stack with everything not essentially from the same source.

My bad. Thats what I get for posting from work. I'm a hair distracted, and don't have books to check on. 

[kitep]

Just so the OP knows where to find this stuff

PHB, p130, last paragraph

Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect tool for
the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if
any).

The price is on the chart on p129

Tool, masterwork     50 gp     1 lb.

Some tools come with charges (eg, Healer's Kit, Disguise Kit).  Some don't (eg thieve's tools)

DMG, p 285

Skill bonus (competence)     Bonus squared × 100 gp     Cloak of elvenkind

So a +2 magic item costs 400gp (not 500gp)

Notice that MW is a circumstance bonus, and magic is a competence bonus, so the stack.  You're not limited to +2 with magic, though only a few items give more than a +5.

Good luck!

[sicnarf]

Just so the OP knows where to find this stuff

PHB, p130, last paragraph

Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect tool for
the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if
any).

The price is on the chart on p129

Tool, masterwork     50 gp     1 lb.

Some tools come with charges (eg, Healer's Kit, Disguise Kit).  Some don't (eg thieve's tools)

DMG, p 285

Skill bonus (competence)     Bonus squared × 100 gp     Cloak of elvenkind

So a +2 magic item costs 400gp (not 500gp)

Notice that MW is a circumstance bonus, and magic is a competence bonus, so the stack.  You're not limited to +2 with magic, though only a few items give more than a +5.

Good luck!

Thanks!

[sicnarf]

Its an oiled latch on your sheath for quick, smooth, rapid draws of your weapon.

Thanks, good idea