Author Topic: Strange 5th Wheel Builds  (Read 12715 times)

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« on: April 22, 2014, 04:49:05 PM »
Just curious to see what kinds of builds optimizers (non-TO optimizers) would go with if all the party basics were covered and your only goal was to do things that no one else could do. Suppose you had a four man party that covered all the basic requirements of a group. (Utility, Harm Prevention, Enemy Elimination, and Recovery).

Basically, you were with a solid group that could handle the basic mechanical requirements of completing adventures. And the four of them say to you, we want you to build a 5th character that does not need to cover any of the basics but goes out on a strange path, one seldom seen, one where you have no requirements other than to be fun, exotic, and extend the parties abilities beyond the regular duties. In fact we want you to go so far afield, become so specialized in your strangeness that you could no longer adventure without us taking care of the grind.

What kinds of things would you use in this situation?       

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 05:28:43 PM »
Lurk / Ebon Saint ... would be sub-optimal
but  you could assume the appearance
of Unique beings.  Nothing particularly more,
just to mess with the local power structures.

Could mix in later the minimal cheese that
a Lurk has available.  Spamming Metafaculty
early is a rather powerful single isolated ability.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 05:30:20 PM »
Just curious to see what kinds of builds optimizers (non-TO optimizers) would go with if all the party basics were covered and your only goal was to do things that no one else could do. Suppose you had a four man party that covered all the basic requirements of a group. (Utility, Harm Prevention, Enemy Elimination, and Recovery).

Basically, you were with a solid group that could handle the basic mechanical requirements of completing adventures. And the four of them say to you, we want you to build a 5th character that does not need to cover any of the basics but goes out on a strange path, one seldom seen, one where you have no requirements other than to be fun, exotic, and extend the parties abilities beyond the regular duties. In fact we want you to go so far afield, become so specialized in your strangeness that you could no longer adventure without us taking care of the grind.

What kinds of things would you use in this situation?       
Honestly, I'd optimize teleport + telepathy. Maybe a bit of divination/ scrying to find out where to teleport to. Sure, I'd be useless in combat, but we'd get where we needed to be! And I've always wanted to try using Plane Shift offensively...

Offline vaz

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 06:06:16 PM »
Mix in Astral Tracker there; you can be a blood hound. "Offensively" use it with Exemplar 5 and get sky high Diplo checks somehow. Turn the tables on your stalkee!

"You see these panties you thought you lost in the changing room? Well actually, it way I who stole them. And all those drawings of you nude in the shower that were drawn while Scrying you that came in the post, that freaked you out so much you had to flee the very plane? Well guess what, I managed to smell your scent, and track you down, you're all mine!"

"Really?"
*squees*
"Marry me, my own personal stalker!"

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 09:03:58 PM »
Intimidation/debuffing/party face/espionage type of stuff. A bard could fill this role well, and also provide inspire courage damage, while being pretty much useless personally in combat. :D

It's not really that odd, though...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 09:09:34 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 05:51:12 AM »
Monk 20! b/c OMG hax and feather fall, it's just sooo borked.

or...

A traveling shopkeeper, maximize starting gold(wizard1, sell your spellbook, mercantile background etc...), knowledge and appraisal type stuff and some way to bring a fully equipped item shop along with the party(an animal pulling something early on, and a full blown extra dimensional... whatever, later on).
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Offline DaCraw

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 08:01:11 AM »
I'd try to build Nodwick, although I'm not quite sure how to go about that in 3.5. Commoner 20 would be the most logical chassis to build off, but I'm not sure how to get his encumbrance up without increasing his strength  :P.

Offline ZhonLord

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 08:24:13 AM »
Dragan shaman is a decent 5th wheel too.  He's got the permabuff aura, can restore players to half health outside of combat to save the healer some spells, uses metabreath attacks (especially Entangling Exhalation), and he can act as a backup for the frontline fighter or a bodyguard for the squishies.  Very versatile support character, though not "strange". 


In terms of the bizarre stuff you're asking about, I second the nomination of "Party limo" with a skilled scrier/teleporter.  Having someone who "sees all, knows all, is everywhere and nowhere" always sounded like a lot of fun to me but I never got in a party big enough to try it.

Another option is an Enhanced Summoning Wizard who focuses purely on providing reinforcements on the battlefield - or extra transportation/utility outside of combat.  At best, they're an additional damage source.  At worst, they're great big meatshields that you can summon multiple of by using a higher spell (summon monster V gives 1d3 of a monster IV, and so on).  It's a sort of exponential growth build, becoming significantly more powerful as combat drags on, but those first 2 or 3 rounds you are practically defenseless and need the rest of the party for protection.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 08:37:48 AM by ZhonLord »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 08:31:54 AM »
I thought about suggesting this the first time, but IIRC it might not be on your allowed book list: a binder

Binders are one of my favorite classes, fluff-wise, and they can make fantastic diplomats and can do a lot of odd things, given a little prep time (a day, or a minute once or twice per day with a feat/item). They can provide fantastic scouting/spying even starting at level 1 via Malphus' summoned bird, can provide unlimited out of combat healing, can craft magic items via Astaroth, can provide unlimited divinations, Ethereal travel (chupoclops), etc.

Overall I must admit that it is a fairly low tier class, but it can make a good 5th wheel and can fulfill many roles as needed.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 03:50:17 PM »
echoing JMH above ... call this Money + Bags

Skarn race (very odd choice)
Aristocrat 1 / OA Samurai 1
start with apprentice class versions = minor handwaving
sell the Katana (but not the other weapon)
Mercantile feat
Wandering Diplomacy feat
Resourceful Buyer feat , this could be delayed a few levels
maybe the Apprentice: Criminal feat

... (do other stuff for a while) ...

/ XYZ something / Spinemeld Warrior 2 , explains why Skarn race
probably doesn't need Wandering Diplomacy feat at this point

Find whatever Magic Items you want in Towns.
Forces the issue of Magic Marts, and good ones at that.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 08:03:02 PM »
Mix in Astral Tracker there; you can be a blood hound. "Offensively" use it with Exemplar 5 and get sky high Diplo checks somehow. Turn the tables on your stalkee!

"You see these panties you thought you lost in the changing room? Well actually, it way I who stole them. And all those drawings of you nude in the shower that were drawn while Scrying you that came in the post, that freaked you out so much you had to flee the very plane? Well guess what, I managed to smell your scent, and track you down, you're all mine!"

"Really?"
*squees*
"Marry me, my own personal stalker!"
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Offline Snowbluff

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 08:17:02 PM »
Lol, you need to post on this board every day.

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Yeah, that was pretty great.

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Offline Tr011

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 09:52:25 AM »
Honestly, I'd optimize teleport + telepathy. Maybe a bit of divination/ scrying to find out where to teleport to. Sure, I'd be useless in combat, but we'd get where we needed to be! And I've always wanted to try using Plane Shift offensively...
A traveling shopkeeper, maximize starting gold(wizard1, sell your spellbook, mercantile background etc...), knowledge and appraisal type stuff and some way to bring a fully equipped item shop along with the party(an animal pulling something early on, and a full blown extra dimensional... whatever, later on).
I think those two can be kind of combined if you play some sort of Rogue/Wizard/Unseen Seer to a trickery caster that focuses on scrying and transportation of all sorts. You find a trap? Disarm it and take it with you. You find an adamantine door? Fabricate it into MW Dwarvencraft Daggers, teleport them away and sell them later (you don't need to be a dwarf, just to gain the original dwarven crafting knowledge). You will get rich as ****, just make sure that you have some ranks in appraise, knowledge (architecture and engineering) and craft.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 01:44:36 AM »
echoing JMH above ... call this Money + Bags

Skarn race (very odd choice)
Aristocrat 1 / OA Samurai 1
start with apprentice class versions = minor handwaving
sell the Katana (but not the other weapon)
Mercantile feat
Wandering Diplomacy feat
Resourceful Buyer feat , this could be delayed a few levels
maybe the Apprentice: Criminal feat

... (do other stuff for a while) ...

/ XYZ something / Spinemeld Warrior 2 , explains why Skarn race
probably doesn't need Wandering Diplomacy feat at this point

Find whatever Magic Items you want in Towns.
Forces the issue of Magic Marts, and good ones at that.

+1

I also like:
* Fiends of Possession
* Jordain Vizier
* Mercury Dragon

However, money bags is a better 5th wheel

Best,
David

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 01:24:09 PM »
(somewhat) related to money bags: some sort of item crafter

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 01:28:05 PM »
(somewhat) related to money bags: some sort of item crafter
As I mentioned earlier, Binders make excellent item crafters, if you can use the online Astaroth vestige (it basically gives you access to all item crafting feats).
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 01:53:17 PM »
i would go with a psionicist of some kind, something oddball and amusing to me personally.

Offline jeffrie

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2014, 03:23:02 AM »
I had an idea for a 5th wheel once. Of course Factotum is a sorta 5th wheel character, but here's the odd part. Make him an OLD cripple. Dump Str, Dex, and Cha. Then add age.

Have him collect spells like Improvisation, Guidance of the Avatar, and Divine Insight, as well as divination spells that he uses to track down powerful magic items (and of course Knowledge Devotion).
    Make him obsessed with increasing his Int, and skills, including those neat "custom skill bonus" magic items, so he never fails. Max his UMD into the sky and fill his lap with scrolls. Put him in a wheel chair, and have him roll silently through the dungeon.

Not a very odd class, but done oddly.

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2014, 12:08:34 PM »
As I mentioned earlier, ....
Oops, I guess I missed that.
You don't have to rub my nose in it, you know.  :P

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Strange 5th Wheel Builds
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2014, 12:40:15 PM »
As I mentioned earlier, ....
Oops, I guess I missed that.
You don't have to rub my nose in it, you know.  :P
Sorry. Didn't mean it like that.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.