Break my E6 Houserule - Prestiging beyond 6th.

[Kasz]

I'm running a houserule in my game to help me design NPCs, however my players just hit level 5 and any rules I use for NPC I leave open for them. So, could any of my players potentially destroy the campaign world with this rule in place or does this rule require any revision. As I'm sure you all know in E6 you stop leveling at level 6, then every 5,000 experience you gain a bonus feat.

Houserule: When you gain 5,000 you can either: gain a bonus feat or gain a level in a prestige class, overwriting your last level in a non-prestige class.

Example:
A Rogue 4/Fighter 2 has BAB +5 and qualifies for Anointed Knight so he gets 5,000 experience and trades in 1 level of fighter or rogue, for 1 level of Anointed Knight. 
Now if he trades in a level of rogue, it's his 4th, so he'd lose uncanny dodge, HD would go up from d6 to d8, would lose some skill points. His BaB would drop but then be put back up, so he would still qualify for anointed knight.
If he trades in a level of fighter, he loses a feat, his HD worsens from d10 to d8, he gains skill points, Same issue with BaB.
Player can trade from any base class he has, loses the highest level.

A player could become, for example, an Assassin 6. A player could become an Archmage 6, but would lose all spellcasting (Archmage requires an existing) but a Wizard 1/Archmage 5 would work. (just an example, I don't think you can get 15 ranks in a skill in E6, even with the skillpoint/rank increasing feats.)

Now, I would let a player do this, but if they lose a requirement for the PrC then they lose  the benefits for the PrC. So say their BaB dropped to the point where they no longer meet the requirements, they lose the benefits, if however they do this again or get a feat/item down the line that re-qualifies them, they regain the class features.

So, are there any builds that utterly break my houserule?

I'm thinking of dropping a Factotum 3 / Chameleon 3 into the world, getting 3rd level spells is certainly not a bad thing.

Oh and before anyone says Urpriest, only 3rd level spells/spellslots exist. 4th level spells or higher are only obtainable via Ritual or Incantation. So whilst a Factotum 1/Chameleon 5 would technically get 4th level spells... it doesn't work because of the way magic worlds in the campaign world.

The intent of this houserule is to have unique and flavourful characters... I'm just curious if there's anything that becomes completely broken for E6. Maybe Hellfire Warlock.... might go research that.

[brainpiercing]

I like the idea, I don't think it would be broken so easily, as you are not circumventing any requirements.

In my E6 group we have simply chosen to lower all common prerequisites  - at least the numerical ones - so that a prestige class can be taken at level 2. Of course not all prereqs are lifted, like third level spells, for instance, or requiring a high-level class feature.

Some classes might break, but less so when you only gain them after level 6. For instance the Beastmaster or that monster herder, I forgot the name, that would get non level-appropriate pets, do break under our rules, but would not break under yours.

In my PbP game I ran for quite a while on the old boards, characters could even choose which levels to replace, but in that case only for LA-substitution levels or template HD. So you could swap out empty levels, and that was fully intended.

[DaCraw]

Hmm, I'm not sure if it would count as broken, but Barbarian 1 / Frenzied Berserker 5 would be quite powerful for an E6 campaign. Deathless Frenzy, Improved Power Attack, 3/day frenzy. Very feat constrained, though.

It wouldn't break the campaign, but it might make balancing encounters more difficult.

[TheEndIsNear]

Now ive never played E6, so take this with a grain of salt... But i thought of what if you kept leveling. You have a limit of 6HD, but you would get the extra abilities as a gestalt class that would go  like a regular class alongside it. A fighter 8 would be like a figther 6 with an extra bonus feat. A fighter 4// rogue 6 would have the same as a 4th level rogue fighter gestalt plus 2 levels of rogues.

You could then stack it.

Id however put a limit on casters, each time you loop around, your casting progression would slow.

[Nunkuruji]

I'm doing something similar for our next campaign

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1smaDwIFcucln_B-PACnGh35-oowQJOIm7Ie8yRfeBuU

Metamagic & caster level boosting can get out hand very quickly, and so I hard cap CL to 10, and MM to 1 per spell. I leave the upper casting slots available, as it separates the 'pure' casters from gishes who would have 3rd level slots anyways. I also limit to 1 PrC just to cut down on hyper interactions.

Depends on where you draw the lines on prereqs for many options.

One of the last things I was discussing with one of my players working on 'broken' builds, would be something like:
Dragon: Loredrake/one of the low hd ones
Heartfire Fanner
Typical music boosting feats
Half-Dragon Form feat
Bestow Curse Aging
River's Ravages aging

To achieve 15HD buffed


Just 1 level of Primeval is very powerful for a (Totem) Druid 5

Dragonmarked PrCs are very powerful, if you allow the upper spell level SLAs

Improved Familiar can lead to Mirror Mephits and Simulacrum abuse

Heritage chains can lead to upper level SLAs if prereqs are ignored

Half-Dragon Dragon Samurai can get a fairly loaded Breath Weapon

Cerebrosis can lead to Dimension Rift, which is equivalent to Teleport

Warmage (PrC) is fairly go to for blasting

AC seems a lot easier to boost than ATK


Ultimately, I'll be running something very high powered in the E6 spectrum. Rough math puts optimized players making approximately ~50pt damage rolls once they're into their first bonus 5 feats or so. I'm likely to adhere to massive damage rules. Combat encounters will be extremely dangerous, with monsters being several CR higher with with probably a stack of 5 feats/CR+1 as I see fit.

In terms of running a campaign, the players aren't likely to achieve anything that straight up breaks the narrative of a campaign, assuming that you go ahead and apply Dirty Tricks Fixes Handbook. What you do want to make sure of is that the players are designing their characters with similar power levels to one another, so no one feels useless or bored. You can adjust your encounters to match whatever your PCs become.

[Mithril Leaf]

Shadowcraft Mage immediately comes to mind, maybe with some Shadowcrafter in there for good measure. Of course, you can already swing the needed 3 levels for 9th level shadows (definitely as a human beguiler, maybe as a wizard).

[awaken_D_M_golem]

There was a thread a few months back,
on basically the same thing as this.
E6 and just take PrC levels.
I don't recall what the thread title was.

You're version seems to be:
1) ... build as normal
2) ... PHB2 Rebuilding substitute with the 5000 exp "buy-off"
3) ... same results

The E6 guys were fairly insistent that
level 4 spells/powers don't exist anyway.

Otherwise, with your set-up I suppose
you could get to 4th level spells,
shoehorn in Nar Demonbinder 1
and then ~Rebuild in 6 levels of it.

[Kasz]

Oh wow, my houserule legitimately opens up planar shepherd. Source

Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 1 at level 6, can then for 20,000 xp or essentially 4 feats, can become Druid 1/Planar Shepherd 5.

Has the same spellcasting as a druid 6, same animal companion, same wild shape...as all those features stack.

Yet he can planar bubble once a day, plane shift, turn into magical beasts and is attuned to his plane.

He can plane shift, bring the party with him, then share the planar attunement with them if they stay within 100ft.... Right, so that's a ridiculous NPC.

[Stratovarius]

Not particularly broken because of the spell list, but the Nentyar Hunter PrC gets 5th level spells in 5 levels. If he's restricted to just level 3 spells, the class becomes less appealing. Unapproachable East sourcebook.

And E6 might be the only ruleset under which the Blighter class isn't slamming yourself in the testicles with the Nerf bat.

[RobbyPants]

I don't think this would be broken, but I'm just curious if it works, per your rules:

Start as Wiz 3/Clr 3. Start trading in wizard and cleric levels until you are Wiz 1/Clr 1/Mystic Theruge 4. This would let you be a 5th level caster in both classes, getting 3rd level spells in each.

I think the result would be stronger than Wiz 6 or Clr 6, but you'd have to play a really suboptimal character from levels 1 - 6 to get to that point.

[Kasz]

I don't think this would be broken, but I'm just curious if it works, per your rules:

Start as Wiz 3/Clr 3. Start trading in wizard and cleric levels until you are Wiz 1/Clr 1/Mystic Theruge 4. This would let you be a 5th level caster in both classes, getting 3rd level spells in each.

I think the result would be stronger than Wiz 6 or Clr 6, but you'd have to play a really suboptimal character from levels 1 - 6 to get to that point.

It'd work, you'd never lose the requirements for Mystic Theurge, so it'd work without forcing you to suck too badly at any point, it'd just take much longer to reach the payoff.

I mean, that's a lot of investment, you're giving up five feats to instead basically be a wizard6//cleric6 but with lower HD. Would make an excellent Cleric of  Wee Jas, Boccob or Vecna. You might even be able to combine abrupt jaunt with DMM persist.

The thing is, you'd be MAD'er than a straight up wizard, and he'd have more metamagic to throw at you most likely.

I'd allow the build on the principle of sheer investment to reward ratio.

[Nunkuruji]

Not particularly broken because of the spell list, but the Nentyar Hunter PrC gets 5th level spells in 5 levels. If he's restricted to just level 3 spells, the class becomes less appealing. Unapproachable East sourcebook.

And E6 might be the only ruleset under which the Blighter class isn't slamming yourself in the testicles with the Nerf bat.

A lot of the rapid advancement / class specific list PrCs become, in effect, master specialists. Scry, Dominate, etc get opened up for particular specific classes, since they end up being 3rd level spells for them.

Planar Shepherd Plane Shift isn't extremely special, since Astral Caravan is still on the table. Magical Beast + Assume SNA could be cool, but the will saves are possibly harder in E6. Planar Bubble depends on what your DM lets you get away with I suppose (alt time).

[awaken_D_M_golem]

X 1 / Illithid Savant 5 ... would still be limited
to a literal mother may I with the DM's monsters.

I would think a dedicated Polymorpher should
still be better at almost everything ; except for
the most dumpster-divey of cheese list.

You'd have to do a multi Know check loop,
go find the exact monsters, versus
even a lite touch dm railroading
near kill the monster with party help,
to then be able to eat a functional brain.