Charismatic Swordsman 3.5

[Another Monk]

Here i am, optimizing a suboptimal concept!

A few days ago, while looking around in the web for an image for an online character sheet, i stumbled upon this one

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by Sarah Stone for Paizo's Pathfinder Chronicles
(as by my search, hope i'm not wrong)

As per the image and my estimation, stats would be (something like): Cha>Dex>Int>Con>Str>Wis
Or something like that anyway (also, since it's for optimisation, they are not locked in place).

Now the image screams Swashbuckler and Duelist, BUT

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and this is a big but

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with one t

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this is not about making it happen, nor just making it work, but making it good, the people i play with, as well as me, are optimizers.

So i've found this little diamond: Arcane Duelist

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The idea is great,

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Not perfect, since he has to be a caster, but great nonetheless

He is a guy who does NOT know how to fight, but he is great at pretending he can actually fight, utilising his other talents.

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Because those who know how to fight don't brag about it (in general)

Thus we have Cha to AC, a better weapon, better to-hit chances/loophole with Powe Attack,

Finally to the important part!
Available resources are: Player handbooks, Dungeonmaster's guides, wotc site plus one wotc book of our choice. (I'm thinking of Complete Warrior)
I do not know yet the ability scores system we'll use and i'm building from lvl 1 to lvl 20 (as i always do no matter the campaign)

What i've come up with is this guy:
Human,
3 lvls in Swashbuckler (Finesse and Int to damage)
2 lvls in Hexblade (Cha to saves, could be paladin, but hexblade fits better)
1 lvl  in Duskblade (1st lvl arcane spells and full bab, YES PLEASE)
X lvls in Arcande Duelist (that's why we are here)
20-(6+X) lvls in Duelist ( i already got the prereqs, so it's not that bad a prc anymore)
Feats to be taken are: Dodge, Mobility (omg it actually HURTS to write this) Power Attack (if possible for the loophole) Ex.Wp.Prof.(Elven Thinblade) (again if allowed for it is from another book, but since it's equipment i might convince the gm)
If i can't work a thinblade, i'm also thinking for rapier+smth two-weapon-fighting.

I'm looking for, ideas, corrections or even a completely different build.

PS. I'd like to avoid going caster, although i've been thinking of Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane duelist, do you guys think it'll work better?

One more thing, i want the concept to be legit (no half-ogre half-succubus spiked-chain weilding monk with charmendine)

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1. Swashbuckler 3/Paladin of Freedom 2/Duskblade 1/Arcane Duelist 10/Duelist 4 (Some Duelist levels might be taken earlier. Also, a level of battle dancer might be a good idea, unsure about fluff though)

2.Bard 2/Battle Dancer 5/Arcane Duellist X/Paladin of Freedom 2 (Paladin levels taken early at some point, stacking with bard via devoted performer -feat noted as a bad idea)

3.Cleric of Olidammara, multiclass Rogue, take Extra Turning, Imbue Weapon, and Sacred Outlaw.

4.Bard 4/Swiftblade 3/Arcane Duelist X (paladin of freedom 2 mixed in perhaps?)

Finally, since this exact same thread exists in another forum, i'll be posting ideas from both of them.

[SorO_Lost]

SorO's Enlightenment Series: Using the Omnislash
Hello and welcome to my little to no clue ramblings. Today's topic is the Arcane Duelist's Omnislash ability, or Flurry of Swords as it calls it's self. But before we go into that I'd like to run off on a tangent, off topic, out of focus, sidetracked, if you'll hear me out.
...
Poor BAB, d8 HD (better than some others), two good saves, 4 skill points per level.
Requires: BAB 6, Dodge & Mobility, Perform & Tumble 5, 1st level arcane spells. Screams Bard doesn't it?

Apparent Defense
Cha to AC. Not bad at all. Very useful.

Dexterous Attack
Reduce damage to increase hit. Seems lame, but srsly this is D&D. What optimizer worth his login can't bump damage into the overkill range? Give up some of that over kill for a better hit chance. There is no notation weather or not this applies before or after a critical hit's multiplier. Also since the class gives poor BAB you better get used to using this. The good news of course when it comes to THF Power Attack + Dexterous Attack = Win. Combine with simple charge boosters to remain an effective damage dealer as you level up. From here on out though the PrC's usefulness is kinda crap. Hold in there for the next six levels and remember; anything you use you have an almost guarantee to hit now.
...
1. Ability Damage/Drain: Wounding(core) and/or Weakening(some Faerun book)
And if you combine those mentioned additional attacks that 6x(1d4+3) points of Ability Damage, 30 Constitution loss means a 20HD target loses 300HP that cannot be prevented or healed by things like Fast Healing or Regeneration. -30 Str means a lot of creatures become unable to hit you or even rendered helpless.
...
Hexblade 4 / Paladin of Tranny 2 / Arcane Duelist 10 / Marshal 1 / Iajutsu Master 2
Cha to saves twice (sort of), Cha to AC, Cha to Initiative using marshal, and also +9d6 damage on every attack. Not the strongest option but I'm sure you grasp the concept of what it tries to do. the more you can stack Cha to stuff the more simple leveling becomes useful.

Check out the full entry in the link.

[Another Monk]

Well ****, i've been searching for arcane duelist stuff 3 days now and didn't find this one.
Thanks

[nijineko]

Well ****, i've been searching for arcane duelist stuff 3 days now and didn't find this one.
Thanks

he doesn't have 'lost' in his name for nothing...

[Another Monk]

he doesn't have 'lost' in his name for nothing...

Epic comment is epic

Great thread oh lost one! (Never took wounding seriously) and quite nice build suggestions, although they don't cover what i'm looking for.
I want an extra ordinary front line combatant, that will be above average from level 1 till level X (where X might even get to epic).
Thus i'm still leaning towards S/b 3//PoF2/D/b1/ADX

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And while not having tested him yet, i do not consider AD suboptimal at all, 1/2 bab is bad i agree, but if you get full bab till lvl 6, you get 11 bab at level 16, just as any 3/4 bab class, (and you get your second attack sooner), considerinh the duelists weapon enhancement, ADs attack roll is like a 3/4 bab classe's anyway (sending it even higher).
Adding the Power Attack - Dexterous Attack loop, you get decent damage too (plus the attack roll to hit ridiculus-high-ac-guys)

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once (in pathfinder) i had to fight a 24 AC fighter in a room with 4 or 5 zombies at lvl 2 (he didn't even have a tower shield)

, Dex+Cha+Light Armor is viable AC. What he actually lacks is saves, and (i think) they are still better than a casual fighter/barbarian/whatever

Paladin of Freedom (or any paladin) or hexblade help a lot with the saves, and swashbuckler fixes the subpar damage roll (plus free finesse)

Another Cool concpet is Stuff X/Arcane Duelist 4/Duelist 7, Fighting defensively and moving around taunting enemies (because what bad guy misses a chance to take down a thin guy that's running around in light armor?)

Edit: Bard 4/Swiftblade 3/Arcane Duelist X (paladin of freedom 2 mixed in perhaps?)
this one would be good if i had access to more books (but gm's rules are a bit tight)

[Jackinthegreen]

Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike only works against stuff that's not immune to crits, so if you have any plans on going past level 12 or so then you're going to run into a lot of things where it won't be useful.  Its first level is better than fighter for more skills and free weapon finesse, but that's about all that's actually nice about the class.  The bonus to reflex saves is crappy and easily overwritten by buffs, the dodge bonus sucks since it's only against a single opponent and AC in higher level play doesn't tend to mean much anyway, and all the other class features after 5th level really suck for the level you get them at or aren't very useful in the first place.  Hell, its 19th level ability to deal 2 con damage on a crit is entirely obsolete thanks to the Wounding weapon ability doing 1 damage on every hit.

[Another Monk]

Yeah, 20 s/b would be the last thing i'd do in d&d , i was only going for 3 levels for the extra damage, but you have a pretty good point about immunity to crits...

So it's either S/b 1/PoF2/Duskblade 1/Something 2/Arcane Duelist X or back to the drawing board.
We either need to find this something, or something quite different. i'd hate to lose full bab progression though(before level 6 that is)

Edit: After getting some encouragement, towards this:
I like Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane Duelist  but I've got a couble of bad feelings about it.
1. Saves, i mean, cha to saves is a big boost, i 've played enough monks (in pf, not one in 3.5) to know the value of 3 good saves (and i lost my cloak of resistance +5 once too *OUCH*)
2. Bab, not so much the attack rolls or the damage rolls (via PA-DA), but it will take longer (1 level is 1 level) to get to Arcane Duelist
3.Damage, not going Swashbuckler 3 means not taking int to damage (although he loses is against crit-imunes foes, so i'm open for ideas on this one) you also lose free finesse, but it'll be covered by othre stuff
4.Taking snowflake wardance, means i get to pick this one book (not necessarily bad)

On the plus side, it fits better fluffwise, we'll be random guys at the beggining, so i could get perform harmonica (lolz)

And i could forfeit snowflake wardance for Tome of Battle.

Any ideas about it?

would that go like Bard 4/Swiftblade3/Arcane Duelist X then PoF 2? (X propably beeing 10)

[DaCraw]

Yeah, 20 s/b would be the last thing i'd do in d&d , i was only going for 3 levels for the extra damage, but you have a pretty good point about immunity to crits...

So it's either S/b 1/PoF2/Duskblade 1/Something 2/Arcane Duelist X or back to the drawing board.
We either need to find this something, or something quite different. i'd hate to lose full bab progression though(before level 6 that is)

Edit: After getting some encouragement, towards this:
I like Bard -> Swiftblade -> Arcane Duelist  but I've got a couble of bad feelings about it.
1. Saves, i mean, cha to saves is a big boost, i 've played enough monks (in pf, not one in 3.5) to know the value of 3 good saves (and i lost my cloak of resistance +5 once too *OUCH*)
2. Bab, not so much the attack rolls or the damage rolls (via PA-DA), but it will take longer (1 level is 1 level) to get to Arcane Duelist
3.Damage, not going Swashbuckler 3 means not taking int to damage (although he loses is against crit-imunes foes, so i'm open for ideas on this one) you also lose free finesse, but it'll be covered by othre stuff
4.Taking snowflake wardance, means i get to pick this one book (not necessarily bad)

On the plus side, it fits better fluffwise, we'll be random guys at the beggining, so i could get perform harmonica (lolz)

And i could forfeit snowflake wardance for Tome of Battle.

Any ideas about it?

would that go like Bard 4/Swiftblade3/Arcane Duelist X then PoF 2? (X propably beeing 10)

How are you qualifying for Swiftblade? Bards don't get 3rd level spells (such as the required haste) until Bard 7.

[Another Monk]

How are you qualifying for Swiftblade? Bards don't get 3rd level spells (such as the required haste) until Bard 7.

Lol good point, the table i've been looking has the spell levels counting from 1 not 0 
(no idea where i found it)
editting everything