Utilizing magic at low levels? PF/3.5

[Thereddic]

Hello again, as much as it pains me to create a new topic when my last one is not 5 threads down on the first page, the topic has shifted a fair amount from what it was previously. To put it briefly, I am building a half orc Oracle (Half orc for the favoured class bonus to help with a small spell list, plus a couple martial weapons for divine abjurant champion, although I'm rethinking that plan now...) The original plan was to build a sort of warrior priest, although a few factors have made this difficult. The first being that I don't have access to persistent metamagic from 3.5 because the Pathfinder version exists, meaning my action economy is a bit confusing.

The second reason I'm having trouble here is that I'm a level 4 character, and while I hear great things about the shenanigans you can pull off with higher level casting (or even low level arcane stuff, really) I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with the cleric list. Maybe I'm just bad at optimization (true) but I just can't find anything meaningful that I'd actually want to keep on the list. I've tried looking at the list from both a warrior's perspective and a control caster's perspective and I just can't seem to make anything work. Obscuring mists? Great until you realize I'm also blinding myself and my party. Cause Fear? HD limits means it's basically useless pretty soon. Blessing/Divine favour? How is such a small bonus going to turn the tides, or even make up for me using my first turn to throw it up instead of going after someone?

So for those of you who are actually intelligent about this sort of thing, how do I make low level magic work? All the good stuff seems to be in arcane, which I can't realy go into because we already have a sorcerer (and also I'm the trap monkey and I can't find a good way to trapfind without either the Seeker ACF, a dip that will basically put me a level behind, or blowing multiple feats to get chakra bound theft gloves) So can anyone help me here? Thanks.

[linklord231]

Why would using the Seeker archetype put you a level behind?  The only downside is losing your level 3 revelation, which would probably be used for War Sight, Surprising Charge, or Maneuver Mastery (You would normally pick one at first, one at third, and the last with a feat).  You can get a few free martial weapon profs for free with the Chain Fighter alternate racial trait, and you don't need heavy armor prof, so you don't need to blow a revelation on Skill at Arms. 

As for spells, Enlarge Person is a great one you get for free as a Battle Oracle, and it lasts long enough that you can pre-buff with it.  Shield of Faith and Bless are also both minute-per-level, so if you know a fight is coming you don't need to spend actions in combat.  Command, Cause Fear, and Hold Person are good now, and you can swap them out for other things later.  Silence is great (doubly so if you took the Deaf curse) because you can cast it on yourself, then go trip-lock or grapple the enemy caster and they don't get a save.  Shatter is great for smashing things like enemy holy symbols, or doors that you don't feel like finding the key to.  Sound Burst is an AoE Fort-or-Stun, which is pretty nice, but won't scale well. 

What's your Cha?  Did you buy it up high enough to make use of save-or-sucks, or did you prioritize Str and Con?

[Thereddic]

Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant using a Factotum dip for anything other than oracle would put me a level behind, not the seeker archetype, which seems really good.

So if I understand correctly, to make use of low level magic, I just take stuff that will become useless later and swap it out for things that might be useful later? Also, is there much of a difference between command and murderous command in terms of effectiveness, or is command better than temporary enemies killing each other? I'm pretty sure it takes them out for 1 round either way, right? Also, is splitting my list between control and gishing feasible, or should I pick one to focus on? (probably gish, since I'm pretty sure clerics have the worst list of the 3 big casters for control, although I'd kinda prefer to try control) Also, I'm currently considering the Heavens mystery because of blowout Amazing display being hilarious for my first two bonus spells, plus Moon Bridge can be in any direction, so I can theoretically use it to build Walls of Force, unless I can't turn it or something. Would I be better off just grabbing the buffing power from battle or something? I mean, technically Ancestors is the most flavourful for my character, but it overlaps too much with Haunted for my liking.

Also, we're rolling stats, but come with one 18 for free, so I start with 20 cha regardless. SO I can probably get a good DC for save or sucks.

[linklord231]

Command is useful against single enemies, Murderous Command is only good against 2 or more.  Definitely don't pick both, and if you pick one, don't take another Will save or suck like Cause Fear. 

I feel like I should talk a little about Obscuring Mist, because you seem to be having problems using it.  It's not really good against melee opponents, as you seem to have noticed.  It's best for countering archers and casters, because they no longer have LoS to you or your party.  You force them to come to you in order to engage, instead of letting them pick you off at their leisure.  Or, you can find a way to ignore miss chance. 

Other level 1 spells worth mentioning:
Know thy Enemy is fantastic if you can take Knowledge Devotion.
Infernal Healing is basically Lesser Vigor - don't use a Spell Known slot, but get a wand.
Divine Favor isn't good now, but it will be in a couple levels.  Especially once you get a Quicken rod.
Moment of Greatness could be nice, especially if you have a bard in the party.  Otherwise, you still get a lot of morale bonuses on the Oracle spell list.
Protection for Evil.  Minute per level, buffs AC and saves (but doesn't stack with Shield of Faith), and helps protect against mind control and summoned creatures. 
Spiked Armor isn't terrible for melee oracles.  It's got a great duration, and you can stack rider effects on it (such as Dazing spell).
Summon Monster 1 is nice, but you're probably better off buying a wand.  Chances are it won't survive more than a round anyway.

I'm really not wow-ed by the Ancestor mystery.  Heavens is good for controlling, but kind of turns you into a one-trick pony and really screws you over against things that are immune to mind effecting or are blind.  You'll be good at low-mid levels, but suffer later on.  For a Controller oracle, I like Outer Rifts, Waves (especially at mid-high levels), Winter, and Time.  For a bashy oracle, I like Battle, Metal, and Wood. 

[Thereddic]

Well, I'm leaning towards control since I've played warrior Clerics before... so lets start there then. Winter/Waves have their good stuff either situational (most of the revelations) or several levels higher than I currently am, so those are on the back burner. Time has some nice endgame stuff and some cool survivability tricks, but not many active "do this thing" abilities, which I kinda feel I need. I'm a little confused as to the controlling powers of Outer Rifts. It has a couple save or sucks, but it most of the control seems to be tacking fog effects onto all my spells. Am I missing something?

also kind of looking at Bones and D.Tapestry. Bones I can reflavour as the haunting spirits possessing the bodies so I'm less evil seeming (although I'm going to need to hide it well, I like the flavour it can bring though) plus if I'm reading it right, I can use the Undead Servitude revelation as a substitute for channel energy which is backwards compatible with Divine Metamagic, which is always fun. The spells it provides aren't all that great, I can make up for it with a horde of minions dealing damage (I'll probably need to find a way to keep them relevant later in the game though, assuming we get that far).
Tapestry on the other hand provides a lot of nice control effects including one I can actually use from the get go (twilight dust) plus it gives me a flying ability, as well as an upgraded alter self, although I'm not sure how much that would help a control player. I'm sure there's something I'm not seeing though, otherwise you probably would've recommended it.

Alright, so for spells right now, I'm looking at

0: its Orisons, you get all the ones that matter anyway
1: Murderous Command, Prot. Evil, Obscuring Mists
2: Sound Burst/Hold Person (not sure whether or not the AoE stun is worth the less potent CC)

How does it look? I'll probably also take another 1st level spell with Favoured Class bonus assuming I'm allowed to trade those out for higher end things later on. Not sure what to do on the feat front, probably versatile spellcaster since I'm a spontaneous caster, but I'm a bit lost after that. Maybe some metamagic like Bouncing spell? Also, probably War Priest for initiative and defensive casting. Race is half-orc, likely taking the scavenger racial trait for the Perception bonus towards traps. I feel that I'd be better off not being a half orc now that I've moved away from martial caster though, but I like the idea of getting more spells from my favoured class bonus (Even though I can do that but be better off as a Half-Elf or Samsaran, but I'm attached to the image of the orc dandy, since I'm also the team face now)

[Maat Mons]

… All the good stuff seems to be in arcane … I can't find a good way to trapfind without … the Seeker ACF …

There's also a seeker archetype for sorcerer.  I didn't mention it before, because I figured you wouldn't want to go sorcerer with another sorcerer already in the party.  I bring it up now in case you really don't like the divine options.