Fun Finds v6.0

[zook1shoe]

Thatd be funny if there were 2 different versions of the book, and that is the only difference

[SorO_Lost]

Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane: These gauntlets...grant the wearer the ability to cast magic weapon at will on a single melee weapon...

I don't know if I have a bad copy of Waterdeep (or if I'm looking in the wrong book like an idiot), or if I misunderstood something, but I can't find the ones that give at-will True Strike.

[Garryl]

Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane: These gauntlets...grant the wearer the ability to cast magic weapon at will on a single melee weapon...

I don't know if I have a bad copy of Waterdeep (or if I'm looking in the wrong book like an idiot), or if I misunderstood something, but I can't find the ones that give at-will True Strike.

Magic Weapon != True Strike.

[SorO_Lost]

Well that's what I get for half-reading and studying at the same time.

Hmm, whatever I had last week was wrong on the Spell. It probably was just an example for pricing an item of True Strike I bet, idk lost it on history clean up.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

SorO's Ritual of Vitality idea ... wow.

So lets say you're a level 6 normal PC with 21 000+ exp.
Do the RoV to become say a 2HD+2LA Thri-Kreen.
Cost is 10 000 exp.
So now you're a 2HD+2LA Thri-Kreen with 6 levels of class XYZ, but down 10 000 exp.

So to make it to Class Level 7 , which would normally be ECL 11  ... how many exp do you need??
If the answer is "normal" then you'd need the whole big pile of it.
If the answer is what has been implied so far, you'd need 10000 + 6000 to reach that level 7.
If the answer is:  you paid the cost, continue like normal, you'd need only the 6000 to reach level 7.
Am I right here, I'm sure I'm missing something, or badly in the ballpark?

[linklord231]

It looks like using the RoV (or RoU) does in fact change your ECL, according to the examples on page 151. 

A Human Warblade 6 with 20,999 XP (one short of level 7), who undergoes the RoV to become a Thri-Kreen (2 HD, 2 LA) pays 6000 XP (the amount of XP it would take to gain a number of levels equal to the goal creature's ECL, which in this case is 4) and 21000 gp (1k x 7 x 4).  He is now a Thri-Kreen Warblade 5 with 14,999 XP (he lost a level since he doesn't have the 15k needed to be level 6 any more).  However, the Thri-Kreen's 2 HD and 2 LA still count towards his ECL, making him an ECL 9 character.  He needs 29,999 XP to gain his 6th Warblade level back. 

[Tohron]

Still seems like a great way for a caster to get a bunch of free spellcasting levels by doing Ritual of Vitality into a race with innate spellcasting.  Sorc's get a wide variety of options, and a mid-level wizard could become a Red Ethergaunt for quick 9th-level spellcasting.

[SorO_Lost]

It looks like using the RoV (or RoU) does in fact change your ECL, according to the examples on page 151.

Not really. End Result is silent & first example is based on the Ritual of Unlearning which isn't what is being discussed. The second example covers an Orge-to-Elf under all three Rituals.

Ritual of Unlearning's consideration acknowledges an LA change of course, that Ritual states you obtain the starting ECL of the creature. But we're not talking about that one to begin with. The example's consideration of the Ritual of Vitality doesn't address really anything which isn't a point to either side. Even the comment at the bottom about finding a lower level party is meaningless. Per Savage Species and the example it's self, Orge has four Racial Hit Dice and RoV does note it alters your HD (as well as the example in question). The loss of those alone would make you find a lower level party. So at the end of it all page 151 contributes nothing.

You should also jog this down, what makes this possible isn't a contradiction found else where and it isn't even really based on a lack of rules either (I'm not that kind of guy btw). It's not that LA is just generally left out, it's all how Ritual of Vitality presents it's self. You are trading XP for the ECL and that you are to specifically consider the XP & HD changes for the final result. LA/ECL is left out of of the examples not because the guy forgot to put it in but you are told why it's not there.

(click to show/hide)

If you're just looking for a sound rules-based point to keep it off your table, Major Rituals are subject to DM permission. Problem solved.

[linklord231]

It looks like using the RoV (or RoU) does in fact change your ECL, according to the examples on page 151.

Not really. End Result is silent & first example is based on the Ritual of Unlearning which isn't what is being discussed. The second example covers an Orge-to-Elf under all three Rituals.

Ritual of Unlearning's consideration acknowledges an LA change of course, that Ritual states you obtain the starting ECL of the creature. But we're not talking about that one to begin with. The example's consideration of the Ritual of Vitality doesn't address really anything which isn't a point to either side. Even the comment at the bottom about finding a lower level party is meaningless. Per Savage Species and the example it's self, Orge has four Racial Hit Dice and RoV does note it alters your HD (as well as the example in question). The loss of those alone would make you find a lower level party. So at the end of it all page 151 contributes nothing.

You should also jog this down, what makes this possible isn't a contradiction found else where and it isn't even really based on a lack of rules either (I'm not that kind of guy btw). It's not that LA is just generally left out, it's all how Ritual of Vitality presents it's self. You are trading XP for the ECL and that you are to specifically consider the XP & HD changes for the final result. LA/ECL is left out of of the examples not because the guy forgot to put it in but you are told why it's not there.

(click to show/hide)

If you're just looking for a sound rules-based point to keep it off your table, Major Rituals are subject to DM permission. Problem solved.

Er, pg 151 does discuss the RoV. 

Alternatively, he could simply undergo a 6-day Ritual of Vitality.  He would have to find a 7th-level caster who knows the ritual and pay the caster 42,000 gold pieces.  Going from 1st to 6th level costs 15,000 experience points, so he would sacrifice that amount, leaving him with less than 1,000 XP.  He would be a 1st-level Ogre Barbarian (ECL 7).  In 6 days, he would effectively gain a character level.  However, unless he is a very unusual 6th-level barbarian, he does not have 42,000 gold pieces that he can spend in 6 days' time. 

Bolded part makes it abundantly clear that your ECL changes even with RoV. 

[SorO_Lost]

Er, pg 151 does discuss the RoV.

And so it does, I forgot all about that for some reason.

The E6 plug (aka no LA!) came after everything but I swear I went back and validated it. All well, back to hating E6 again. At least you did nothing to break the level gain for using it. I'd cry my self to sleep for screwing that up too.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Me:  " ... If the answer is "normal" then you'd need the whole big pile of it. ... "

It looks like using the RoV (or RoU) does in fact change your ECL, according to the examples on page 151. 

A Human Warblade 6 with 20,999 XP (one short of level 7), who undergoes the RoV to become a Thri-Kreen (2 HD, 2 LA) pays 6000 XP (the amount of XP it would take to gain a number of levels equal to the goal creature's ECL, which in this case is 4) and 21000 gp (1k x 7 x 4).  He is now a Thri-Kreen Warblade 5 with 14,999 XP (he lost a level since he doesn't have the 15k needed to be level 6 any more).  However, the Thri-Kreen's 2 HD and 2 LA still count towards his ECL, making him an ECL 9 character.  He needs 29,999 XP to gain his 6th Warblade level back.

Ah, OK, now I get it.
(dumb it down enough for my kitty avatar's Tail to be dipped in actual chocolate)

Consider part A, just a straightforward ECL swap.
Consider part B, is it worth the cost of the ritual, and sitting still for the possibly long time for the exp to get back to normal?

And it can be classically C.O.-ed to be a rather large bump in power ala SorO's general idea.
Certainly opens up a bunch of Monster Races that otherwise aren't playable in many lower level games.

I guess I was thinking about squeezing LA buy-off into the equation too.
Complicating things by quite a bit, but making the combo even more ~worth it.

[Prime32]

Whispercast is something I'd expect to see brought up more often. Stick it in an item and your mage effectively gets Eschew Materials and Automatic Still Spell for free. Plus, while you need to whisper it's not explicitly a verbal component and the spell is described as a "purely mental action" - theoretically you could cast spells while in forms incapable of speech, or combine Silent whispercast with Invisible Spell to make your spells unidentifiable.

[SorO_Lost]

Deceptive Spell would be better.

Me: My parrot is a mage.
Mook: What?
Parrot: Lightning bolt!
*a lightning bolt from the parrot's beak strikes the mook*
Y'll seen that, I didn't do it.

[Prime32]

Take a standard ranger, armed with an elvencraft bow, yuan-ti serpent bow, or any other bow that counts as a melee weapon. Select hunter's mercy as one of his 1st level spells, and have him take 10 levels in Techsmith.
Result: Kill any Construct without a saving throw. Only drawbacks are you still need to hit them, and it takes 2 rounds to pull off.

If that's too narrow for you then just play a Ranger/Deepwood Sniper with the Resounding Blow feat. This gets you a bow that deals 5x damage and forces enemies to make a Will save or cower for 1 round. Using Deathstrike Bracers^MIC is recommended so you have a way to bypass crit immunity (which is significantly harder to find than ways to bypass sneak attack immunity).

[Chemus]

How is the ranger getting minor creation? I don't see the method in your build stub.

[Prime32]

How is the ranger getting minor creation? I don't see the method in your build stub.

Well the only part of ranger you need for the build is access to 1st-level ranger spells. So you could enter Techsmith via Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order, or use Prestige Ranger or Consecrated Harrier or something, or just be an Archivist. Heck, if you use the Complete Warrior ruling you could just put minor creation in an item.

[Kethrian]

Just noticed the Chastise Spirits ability of the Spirit Shaman has a DC of 10 + class lv + Cha mod.  Note that it is not 1/2 class lv, and errata does not change it ...

[Amechra]

The Raptor's Mask from MiC (p. 210) has a pretty unique effect.

Namely, it renders you immune to any effect that would blind or dazzle you.

Note that I didn't say that it rendered you immune to blindness or being dazzled. No, it renders you immune to any effects that include dazzling or blinding you.

This means that a creature with fewer than 8 HD would be entirely immune to effects of a Prismatic Wall (by RAW, at least).

And it's only 3500 gp, which is a pretty reasonable price even if you go by RAI.

On a similar note, a Shirt of Wraith Stalking allows you to use Hide from Undead at-will, and intelligent Undead don't get a save. And it's only 6000 gp.

Edit: Amulets of Teamwork aren't that bad, either - 2000 gp to boost your Aid Another bonuses from +2 to +3, and anyone flanking a creature you're flanking gets a +2 untyped bonus to damage. If you let the bonuses from different Amulets stack (it is an untyped bonus, after all), you can get some pretty nice damage bonuses. And add a 1/day +5 Competence bonus to AC for you and an ally that lasts a round, and you've got a pretty nice item, all things considered.

Bracers of the Blast Barrier are nice for Warlocks; 3200 GP for the ability to make short-lived walls out of your Eldritch Blast 3/day.

[SorO_Lost]

Heck, if you use the Complete Warrior ruling you could just put minor creation in an item.

Not really, Spellcasting sounds like an ability but a spell does not. Well that and CA is the book you need to read about Spellcasting requirements.

Oh, while I'm at it. Golems are immune to Cowering, Deathstrike Bracers only allow extra damage, you roll to confirm crits against Golems anyway for special effects, Techsmith doesn't care and Hunter's Mercy is pretty nice. Just use a Morphing Mace of Smiting if you can't spare ten levels.

Kind of all comes back to how great Hunter's Mercy is. Really nice find all on it's own.

[snakeman830]

From MIC, Bracers of the Entangling Blast combo quite nicely with Wall of Fire.  You actually get more damage out of using them than just the regular spell, but you also get the benefit of holding enemies in there to let them cook for a few rounds.  Wall of Fire damages a pretty large area.

Oh, and these bracers are Warlock friendly for use with Wall of Perilous Flame.