Author Topic: Need help optimizing an archer gish  (Read 4731 times)

Offline Madwand

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Need help optimizing an archer gish
« on: May 15, 2014, 03:31:06 PM »
I'm going to be joining a 6th level D&D 3.5 game soon, and I'm looking into the possibility of playing a sun elf archer gish. I'm currently thinking about going Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8. I have 30 point-buy, and my allowed sources are Complete Arcane, Divine, Warrior (add Improved Hexblade), Adventurer, Mage,  PHB, DMG, MM, Libris Mortis, Heroes of Horror (Archivist and Dread Necromancer classes), Book of Vile Darkness, Lords of Madness, SRD Variant Classes (no Generic Classes).

I have a lot of experience with melee gishes, but not with archer gishes. My main question is if this is even going to work out. Is there any decent synergy between wizard spells and archery? Obviously Flame Arrow is OK, though I won't have that for another level. How can I pull this off? Is there any way I can get a strength-adjusting bow so polymorph can get a bit more damage later on? Thanks for any ideas or commentary!

Offline lieronet

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 03:43:28 PM »
If you had access to the Animated Series Handbook, you can get Hank's Energy Bow, which (among other things) lets you Power Attack with it. It also adjusts pull to the user's strength. Full writeup is in the Bunko's Bargain Basement thread. Further, if you had access to Champions of Ruin, you'd get Splitting, a +3 bow enhancement that doubles your number of attacks per round.

As for things to do with what is available to you, have you considered doing something like scout1/wizardx/swiftblade? It might be a bit too late  blooming, but there's some synergy between Scout and Swiftblade, and a one level dip in Sacred Exorcist gets you turn attempts to fuel Travel Devotion. Battle Sorcerer is also something to consider instead of Wizard. If you do that, talk to your DM about using the Favored Soul spells known table.

Hope some of this helps!
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Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 03:47:16 PM »
Thanks. Your suggestions are good and I was aware of several of them, but almost none are part of my allowed sources. I suspect my DM is going to be very strict with those. So, I'm not even sure if this idea of an archer gish is going to work at all. Still looking for ideas though.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 03:54:21 PM »
With "Improved Hexblade" do you mean the unofficial official change that Mike Mearls suggested at http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/1088151#332210466?  Or is it a homebrew thing your DM has done?

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 03:57:29 PM »
It's probably the fix at your link, though I didn't care enough to check as it isn't a class that interests me much.

Offline lieronet

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 04:03:24 PM »
Do you think the DM will disallow web classes? I can't think of much better for an archer gish than Swiftblade. Otherwise, I'd try to abuse Imbue Arrow from Arcane Archer to cast any AoE spell as a standard action (instead of what it's normally cast as), but I don't know how to do that off the top of my head.
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 04:04:13 PM »
Just trying to get a feel for your DM is all.  It's good that he's realized the hexblade kinda sucks.

The energy bow can also be found online: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a

You might want to look at http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2892.0 for some basic stuff.  Unfortunately it's incomplete, but it's a start.

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 04:37:15 PM »
I strongly suspect web classes will be disallowed.

Thanks for the links. I've read them. For the most part I'm aware of the individual pieces that can go together to make a good archer and wizard, but what I have no idea is if I have access to enough pieces to make a PC that works. i.e., will I be able to contribute with archery? Without access to a bow that adjusts to strength, I am very uncertain. There's also not a lot of spells that help with archery, though I'm sure there's a polymorph form or 2 that have high Dex. If anyone can show me a build with good numbers, I guess that would help, but there are other ways of getting some kind of intuition.

Offline Esgath

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 04:20:42 PM »
If you can't bring your DM to allow the Energy Bow, Bow of the Wintermoon (MIC, page 48) also adjusts to strength.

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 04:30:13 PM »
Magic Item Compendium is also not on the list of allowed books, unfortunately. It's looking more and more like this is an impossible dream.

Offline Esgath

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
Does nobody have the book, or did the DM just give you that list of the above mentioned books and didn't mention the Magic Item Compendium? At least, I haven't heard of a group that actively banned the MIC.

edit: too dumb to search
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 04:57:40 PM by Esgath »

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 05:22:11 PM »
I don't know the reason the book is banned -- it's certainly not because the players don't have access to it.

Offline Esgath

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2014, 04:09:16 AM »
Is it only banned during character creation, or in general? You should clear that up with your DM. For the time being, there wouldn't be any difference in giving you a bow with a set strength bonus.

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2014, 03:40:44 PM »
All banned sources will continue to be banned indefinitely.

Not having access to the Bow of the Wintermoon is pretty serious, even at 6th level. It means I can't use Bulls Strength to improve my damage. It also means every time I upgrade my strength, I have to buy a new bow. I'm still hoping there are answers out there, but I'm losing hope.

Offline Madwand

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Re: Need help optimizing an archer gish
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2014, 05:03:42 PM »
Hope is found! The GM just told me about a new feat available in his game that changes everything. Something I didn't mention before is that the GM is using firearms in this game, because it didn't seem relevant without this feat:

Sharpshooter
Prereq: Precise Shot, Weapon focus with firearm
Benefit: The character adds his Dexterity modifier to damage while using the firearm with which he has the Weapon Focus Feat
Qualifies as Fighter Bonus feat

This changes everything, because:

Repeating Rifle, 600gc, 2d8, 19-20/X3, 160ft, 16lb, Piercing
Cartridges (5), 1gc

Guns are actually pretty decent with this feat, and MAD is greatly reduced. I can go with stats of 12/16/12/18/8/8 and feats (using Combat Wizard alternate class feature):

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon focus
Sharpshooter
Rapid Shot

No Rapid Reload because Unseen Servant can do that for me. Cat's Grace can be my main combat buff (aside from the normal AC boosters). Anyone have ideas for how to do any better?